Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General Please post impressions.

PROS: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

The skill system
I prefer skill based RPG systems to class based ones. So this one was a treat. In theory, characters customizable to the extreme and the possibilities are limitless. I wish there was some cross skill similarities though. Meaning if I had 4 points in 1-H Slashing accuracy, I automatically get 2 points in 1-H slashing + shiled, and 1 point in other 1-H weapons, or some such. Likewise there could be similarities between, disarming traps and picking locks, extract and combine,... and so forth.
Why would a grandmaster with a mace become 1 complete newbie when he gets a Shield in the other hand? Sure the technique is different but there are similarities.

Summoning Dolls
I have not used them much but the concept is great. A mule, a kamikaze trap disarmer, cannon fodder all in one. Besides keeping them at low level allows to unlearn/learn very cheaply, having a versatile repair guy / identifier / alchemist, this way. Not to mention potentially a full fledged party member if one had skillpoints to spare.

2-Character party
Again great idea. In most other solo-RPGs one is either alone, or having sub-human followers with no personality.

The music
I tend to turn them off, or lower their volume in most RPGs, this time I really enjoyed them.

The humor & script
Not much to say here. I like what Rhianna did with the dialogue and the Novelette, tying the divine one, beyond div, Raanaar, Riftrunning neatly.

CONS: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />

The skill system
This is not a copy paste error. The best thing (IMO) in beyond div, is also the thing I find most frustrating. In theory one has infinite possibilities to tweak one's characters. In practice, when one looks at the build that players who finished the game have, one sees that they spend 25 out of 35 points on their main 'weapon' leaving 10 points to customize and then out of those 10 many go to must have skills (detect traps,...). Raze is going to fall on me like a ton of bricks for this one but I wish there was 2 skillpoints per level, maybe even more every 5 levels. Balance issues could be solved by disallowing spending more points on one skill then one's level (ie to have 25 points skillpoints invested in your favourite weapon you need to be level 25).

Bugs
Impossible as it is to deliver a bugfree piece of software, I find it inexcusable that things fixed long ago in the German version did not make it to the English version (Act 1 Dungeon 2, quests not disappearing after finishing them), and things listed as fixed in the patch readme actually aren't (Archey contest)

That's all. Please remember that I am just stating my opinion, not Truths and Facts.

Thanks a lot Kiya and others for the mature replies. It pretty much killed all my fears of a flame war and restored my faith in this community.

***May Contain Spoilers***

Also wish to point out: The Earth Elementals just feel unbalanced to me (my opinion). It would have been more fun and worthwhile in my view, if there was a quest such as the well poisoning in Divine Divinity or something. It just feels I am forced to use every potion I have (Which there are not enough of, imo) just to defeat one area of monsters. it makes me headbutt the wall and repeatedly mumble (ugh... bloo...d...y... eaaa...rth... ele...men...tals.... i... want... my.... te..ddy... bea...r) and I am sure my family will deliver me to a mental institution shortly.

====Start of Impressions====

I'll just list them instead of the huge novella I posted last time.

The Negatives

1) The Death Knight : Whilst later on in the story, (Act 2 onward) I grew to find humour in some of his speach... he just on a whole does not strike me as an evil character. He seems too happy to be there, too "I luv my hero companion, I really do... gis' a kiss". He obeys my everyword... never once has he decided he won't help someone because he wants to kill them, he just mumbles it. It would of been nice if some quests had an unexpected end or something, where the Death Knight lost his cool and slaughtered the quest givers. He just doesn't seem evil, he actually reminds me more of a spouse... happy to be there, but occassionaly moans or we see differently so argue. Maybe he likes being tied to the hero... who knows? Maybe the chains were really a diamond ring... and this... this 'adventure' is really the honeymoon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

2) The 'EXP' Quests : They seem random at best... some in act 3 really do not make sense as I stated and my morals have been pushed to the limits. I feel really sorry for my new allies (The Ranaar) because I am a two-faced, double crossing, money-grabbing and two-timing Paladin with attitude. Not only am I working for the Ranaar, but also for the Black Ring... everyone infact and it just seems extremely 'random'. When I roleplay, I like to feel I am that character... I like to be able to use my morals to guide my decisions in game... I feel I have to go against everything I feel, just to progress the story. That is not roleplaying, it is 'action-gaming'. Should I just rename my character "Lara Croft" and go do somersaults and headstands in empty crypts? Divine Divinity had a nice touch... if you didn't want to work for a certain 'species', you could bring peace to them instead. I'm a wee bit confused here... and I feel really two faced.

3) Battefields I remember someone stating a GOOD gamer wont need to go here, they can complete the game without doing so... well then, I am proud to be a terrible gamer, because without going here in Act 1 and 2, i'd of been dead many many times. Death Knights, Earth Elementals... talking spiders... death death death. I agree with the others... Battlefields feel like an afterthought. Like going to work... some may not wish to be there, but if they didn't go, life would suck incredibly hard. I actually enjoy clearing the dungeons in battlefields however... the enemies there are destroyed by my two-handed fury, refreshing seeing as everything else in act 3 is using me as a human version of 'Pong'. The merchants gold is incredibly low... I have 200 items stuck in every hole possible (on me and my death knight), I feel like a hedgehog, except they are swords not spikes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

4) Inventory Screens Well, I agree these are worse than Divine Divinity. But then, the whole interface is in my view. I loved the health bars surrounded by snakes/dragons... but that's pure opinion. It just felt more 'Divinity' and less 'main stream'.

5) Skills I miss Divine Divinity Skills. They gave us freedom, now instead of a jack-of-all-trades (specialist in nothing), we are a specialist-in-one-thing (useless at everything else). In my view, warrior's especially, should specialise in a weapon type, not a damage type. If a warrior (irl) used a [nocando] sword, he would specialise in every form of damage it could possibly do. Hitting with the hilt (crushing), Slicing the body (slashing) or stabbing the enemy to finish him off (piercing). Now I feel like an action figure... I can only move my arm in an "Up and down" motion, because my mechanics wont allow my arm to move "Side to side" or "in and out". Similarly, skills just feel a wee-bit silly... a warrior in full plate could not sneak, end of story. The "CLANG CLANG CLANG... CLANG CLANG CLANG... CLANG CLANG" would king of give them away don't you think? How about lock-picking in a pair of gauntlets? How about specialising in melee abilities, whilst having no strength? Reminds me of the term "swatting flies". At least in Divine Divinity the influx of skill points meant you could add it and forget it for your own sanity... in Beyond Divinity, the low number of skill points makes you a specialist in said area... and I cannot see a paladin/knight being specialist in slashing and lockpicking. It just seems wrong.

6) The Story As I stated in my last post... I have problems with the story. It starts off telling me I was a paladin sent to kill Samuel (with other Paladins) for the Divine One (I believe)... surely this states they have faith in me, which means I am experienced, which means I can kill an enemy without running? A Paladin is trained beyond belief... the whole Paladin image is one of "Divine Warrior", not "Divine Rubbish". Paladin's can repel the undead... they can literally TELL a ghost/skeleton to die again, because they felt like it... yet in BD, this (ex?) Paladin is being raped by anything dead, and also has decided to get the pickpocket skill, breaking every rule the Paladin Code has, just for some... *wink wink* easy money. Could the developers have not just proclaimed "And the Divine One sent a band of adventurers forth to destroy the Necromancer"? I am a Paladin (according to Larian)... a Paladin who has theif skills (Robbing from the rich to feed thyself is an act of evil for starters and the Paladin would be stripped of rank immediately)... I am a Paladin who is fed up of being one so they decide to focus on other skills instead? Who knows, i'm confused. "I shall smite the, unholy entity, but first, I shall steal thy wallet". I love roleplaying as Paladin's... purely because it is one of the hardest classes to RP as. People claim it is easy, but then the entire concept of a Paladin is lost to them. A Paladin would not participate in a drinking contest, a paladin would not work for an entity deemed evil just to progress the story... a paladin would NOT do quests for a necromancer (especially one he was sent to kill in the first place)... he/she would attempt to smite said necro even if it meant they died in the process (im sorry but the whole "I said your name so you cant kill me" thing is wrong... the Paladin would still TRY). Paladin = Enemy of evil, friend to the innocent, champion of the people. Paladin does NOT = wallet stealing, shadow sneaking, tale telling, 'chaotic neutral' warrior. A Paladin would also give running lectures/commentaries to his unwanted ally (The death knight) on the errors of his ways... after all, a Death Knight is usually seen as a form of fallen paladin/warrior. Situation does not grant the destruction of teachings/morals/beliefs. A Paladin would rather die than defy their lord.

7) Voices I really love Rhinna Pratchett's humour, I just have issues with the actors cast to voice them. The cockney guy who is the voice of most Black Ring guards / humans in Act 2 and 3, is just totally bored. "buy my stuff... I need to sell it" or "you can't come in here... it isn't allowed.". Wheres the feeling? Wheres the frustration? Wheres the humourous undertones that defies their actual speech (saying they feel different to what they say?). It feels like they are reading lines straight from a script and not even putting feelings into it. Anyone can do that, I got an A in school (in Drama) for doing that... but these guys are paid to do more. I just feel the whole cast was bored, none seem to want to be doing it. And EVERYONE has the same voice! Oh my Lord, some woman was a naughty lady, she had so many twins, the whole world is populated with them! Even the imps have the same voice as the humans, granted, they've added a squeak. Then there's the death knight... I love his stupidness, the voice is perfect for a dumb evil warrior (imo)... but again, he seems so bored! "Arhhh... you're awake... woohooo... back to bed... bleh".

8) Neutral Creatures Couldn't they have kept that warning window for the entire game? I cannot count the times i've clicked a rat or other neutral animal by mistake... and then been royally raped by their brothers and sisters. In chapter 1 a little window pops up "Are you sure you want to click on, rat (neutral) and have all other rats as enemies" or something similar. Why was this taken out of Chapter 2 and onward? It really stopped 'accidental' clicks, whether they be just where your mouse is (whilst your attention is elsewhere) or under the 'fog-of-war' whilst you click inside it. On a side note... how does every cat/rat/frog/dog in the world know I killed one of it's species? What is this? Chinese Whispers? "He killed Margaret!!! Pass it on!!!!"

9) The Music What was the best feature of the original game, seems boring and uneventful in BD. It's too moody... I feel depressed sitting there for longer than 20 minutes, because it's all so glum. I the original game, I could teleport to Dark Forest when I felt sad, and proceed to jump up and down like a loon to the catchy and fun beat. Now all I get is the feeling something, somewhere, has died and all the musicians look like this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" /> .

10) Items There are too many, but of what there is... the majority is utter rubbish. In act 3, I am still finding normal leather armor... i've only seen one full-plate, and that was from a Black Ring Merchant. Why don't the Battlefield merchants sell things on an Act basis? Act 3, their stock gets better perhaps? For the later mosters, defence is really important, and so is resistances... yet all I can find at most, is a "Mole's Chain Mail" or a "Rabbit's Leather Armour". I may as well buy "Red Rags" and stand in front of an Elemental shouting "yooohooo, i'm over here... come earthquake me, I can't resist it!!!" (literally).

11) The Hero Underpowered. It's the only way I can see him/her. An imp Shaman can royally kick thy heroes behind, yet the hero wishes to save the world and kill anything hostile within. Some hope. They can't even defeat a Death Knight without running (which in Divine Divinity were food for my sword, I loved killing them). "Hey, Mr. Hero... my daughters trapped in an Orc hole... do us a favour and rescue her... but make sure you know Sneak and Save the Game a lot, because frankly... you're a wimp!!!". There's difficulty and then there is insanity... which leads me to my final negative;

12) The Difficulty If you wish to attract main stream gamers, you should make 'Very Easy' actually mean 'Very Easy' and not 'An-Easier-Version-of-Difficult'. The average gamer, does not have the patience for trial and error. Not everyone has the time or staying power to fight one enemy for 30minutes, dying over 12 times and reloading frequently so their PC lags like it was 15 years old. Very easy should mean, "Hit enemy with stick, you win, hoorah". While those of us who love RPG's will play on a hard difficulty, if you wish to make a profit and earn money, you need to make the game playable by all... and that includes kids, old people and people with no hand-eye co-ordination. As it stands, Beyond Divinity actually needs pretty good reflexes, it's not a game for a 'newbie' gamer, nor for a casual gamer. It taps into an extremely elite market and one which, unless they played RPG's before... would be totally lost/clueless. Manuals can only go so far. The reason Divine Divinity wasn't successful was most probably the learning curve/difficulty. I remember playing it the first time and then leaving it until I had the patience to sit there for a weekend and learn it. Mr. Average would leave it and not come back... he'd rather trade it for Halo or something and kill anything moving. Unfortunately, the games industry is very focussed on casual gamers and it will not change anytime soon. Granted, it's just my opinion, but i've seen too many FANTASTIC developers go under, because they appeal only to a specialised market. For example: Two great British developers of all time; Bullfrog and the less known Mucky Foot (Startopia)... gone. It's sad, and I for one don't want to see it happen to Larian. Money talks in our world.

13) Warriors... I still believe Warrior is Strength and Endurance. If I wanted Martial Arts and spin-kicks, i'd invest in a monk. I really just cannot see a 6'2", 260lbs+ guy dancing the highland fling whilst smiting enemies with a tremendously huge great-axe. It just wouldn't happen... armour and weapons weigh enough to totally void movement in the first place... remember, 'knights in armour' had to be hoisted onto a horse, full-plate armour is extremely hard to move in. I just can't understand why I need to be able to move around like a sugar-plum fairy, just to hit my target. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> Warrior = Biceps are bigger than their heads. Beyond Divinity Warriors are more a variation of a ranger. Like an 'Aragorn' I guess.

----------Really long, I apologise for that, I just like to explain my thoughts (and back them up)----------------

The Positives

1) The Atmosphere I love Larian made worlds, they are fun and crazy. The imp village made this game for me, it's just hilarious to walk around it and talk to NPC's. Especially the female ones, real classic. Reminds me (no offence) of 'sitcom comedies' on British Television, where the mothers/sisters always moan at the no-hoper males. "Imp Hero" is one of the best characters in the game... especially seeing as he lies about doing anything. The Citadel is cool... if a little long. I really got a bit bored near the end, as it was too long and dull, but overall it was a fun starting environment. The ambient sound really brings out the atmosphere too.

2) The Humour Simply classic... without this humour, the game wouldn't be anywhere near as enjoyable for me. I just wish, as I said, that the voice-actors did the humour justice. Some of the lines would of been much better, delivered well... instead of 'bored'.

3) The Combat Nothing beats hitting a critical and hearing that "SQUISH" noise. It just makes all that training worthwhile, to crit a nasty human scumbag with a SQUISH. Especially when they die immediately after with an agonising "ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH". The 3d element has added to the combat greatly and I love how it feels like the training pays off, when you kill a hard enemy, such as an Earth Elemental.

4) The Difficulty "Woot" it's in both positive and negative...well as I said, I love RPG games so for me difficulty makes the game more rewarding/satisfying. My whole 'impressions' are written on how I view the game in total, not just my own feelings whilst playing. I really love getting beaten up, except if it's by four earth elementals casting earthquake... that's just frustrating.

5) The Graphics I really love the new character models... it's just a shame all models are the same. I kinda liked how in Divine Divinity each class had a different base model. None-the-less, the new models are nicely detailed and armour looks great now, which is an improvement over Divine Divinity. Females in the first game, looked a little... 'weird' in fullplate imo. I much prefer the new armour. I just wish the backgrounds were a little better when zooming in. They look too blurred.

6) The Death Knight Some of his comments in later Acts are hilarious. I love his hatred of imps and his want to kill them in suitably horrific ways.

-----------------End--------------

I'll post more positives when I think of them.

I really do not wish to tread on toes but, I just feel if everyone protects Larian too much, it does more harm than good. If some issues are not addressed (which are said by a lot of people in here, and whom all have said they like the game overall), Larian won't get the money they need for Divinity 2. Nor will they address things which stop people playing mid-game. It's nice to have a very strong and close community, but sometimes support can be too much... like sheltering a child, too much protection and they'll never be able to fend for themselves in the real world.

I love Divine Divinity. I like Beyond Divinity. I want to love it, but I can't.

I've seen many posts here in the past few weeks from people defending Beyond Divinity, yet they do not even own the game yet. This in itself puts many people off buying the game as nobody likes a die-hard fanboy. It's the same as butt kissing your boss. As much as I love Larian's games, I really think this whole 'sheltering them' from negative feedback everyone is doing, is doing more harm than good. It's happened to companies before and will happen again, if the money suddenly dries up.

--------------

Thanks for reading again (if you read the first one). Sorry I deleted it, but I don't want to be an 'enemy' of the forum... i'm a fan like everyone else. I just believe Larian need support in BOTH negative and positive forms, if they are going to succeed and get what they DESERVE. Fame, fortune and success.

LOL.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

I'll keep it brief!

Really enjoying the game at the moment.

Always liked the item-mongering aspect of Diablo and the hack hack hack...but thankfully with a lot more depth to it than diablo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is proving more satisfying.

I am annoyed about the messy inventory, and the sudden-death traps, but I suppose that's what the trap skill is for... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Very happy that you can teleport at will to the battlefields and get rid of the crap you don't need! I hate been encumbered with stuff I can't sell...it's painful leaving items behind so I'm glad I can just teleport and sell them.

The voice acting is good in places bad in others...

Not bothered at all by the DK voice, for me it's better than the demo and has anyone noticed he sounds exactly like Serious Sam from the game of the same name?

First of all =>
Div cost me a keyboard (smashed my fists on it, cause of Josie - and a water kettle - overheard it as I was trying to find out how to wash dishes)

BD cost me a headset so far => smashed it on the ground. Maybe we might meet in a psychiatric clinic, Monkehman ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> so, I really understand frustration!

About EA => yes, they are overpowered, specially the earthquake spell. I had no probs with their other spells, my resistance was at 21. Everytime I saw one, I started to quake in my shoes. Played on very easy, BTW - but I consider myself a lousy fighter...

DK => Hmm, he gives wrong advice in some cases - and he depends my hero fully. I don't want to give away spoilers, I think, you might understand in the end, why he acts like honeymoon. Only this: he is devious. And as he was pink from Act 2 on, he merely amused me.

Act 3 quests => I agree, felt bad at some quests and then decided to skip some. I lose fun in a game if I have to kill needlessly. I still had enough ranking points to carry on. I understand you - being a double crosser is not my game style. (Even though I love to steal...)

BF => I didn't like them and could complete the game without going in there much. Just checked if dungeon entries were open - and in my last game, I skipped even that - in the meantime, I had found out my style and how to overcome probs. (Played it several times now, to see version differences.)

Inventory => hmm, I like to keep my stuff tidy - so I started to build "roads" - used the large inventory to group my stuff by scrolling, so I had a large overview. But I understand - it's easier to have the Div inventory.

Paladin/hero => I saw my hero differently - more the "I'm a beginner type". Yes, I would have preferred Kiyana to be a bit stronger - but as I said, I consider myself a lousy fighter. I wasn't a paladin - I was a disciple of this Order (probably the very low ranks). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> So, as she had to survive in a very dangerous way, I saw no prob in her beginning a stealing career (HA! I was corrupted already by all Div gamers and their ways to steal... learned a lot)

Neutral creatures: OH YES!!!! I agree fully. I can't count my reload times. I wish very hard, this would be changed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

items => didn't pick up everything. I agree, less and better quality would be fine - but I was lucky, I found orange items here and there (buy/find) - and I would have loved to have my char in shadow armour totally, liked the glimmer. But my leather armour was very good, so I kept to it.

Difficulty => I agree. Very easy is what I would see as "normal". Yes, this is not for mainstream gamers. The whole game takes up a lot of concentration and patience in my case - to understand plot twists, hints etc. And the combat, of course (did I mention, I'm a lousy fighter?)

Skill system => I think my differing opinion is clear in that, hm? I don't compare Div/BD skills - I liked both. Div was definitely easier. I needed discipline in BD not to take up too much skills - but this is challenging for me - maybe frustrating for others. I don't say it's good/bad - just needed a different approach. And I understand Div gamers mourning for this system <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Voices => German version has no speech. I prefer to play in silence anyway - I read too fast for this and like to jot down notes (old pen&paer RPG tradition). I think, it's not easy to suit every taste.

Music => well, this time I played in total silence - the game took up my whole concentration. I think, I will use this option, as soon as I feel secure in the game (combat).

Positives =>
this was the first time, I left my usual mage way and tried archer. Never had experienced this fun before - I loved the large variety of arrow types very much.

Humour => yep, liked that, too - sarcastic, sinister, callous - or when remembering these thievish imps => just sweet. I loved them! As I had a tooth ache myself, I really had to laugh about the Black Bishop in Act 3.

Act differences in landscape => The "merry" landscape in Imp Village, then the dark and sinister areas. Later on the beautiful Crystal Forest. These switches were extreme and I found beauty everywhere - though I took out the fog, so I could see enemies better. I liked the bubbling lava - and well, I really developed emotions for the Raanaar and their bond to honour. BTW, I think, this was the cause of their downfall. I recall, I spent some time thinking about their virtues and how/if they would survive in RL.

Brainy riddles => specially in Act 4. I felt like Miss Marple at times.

Personal conclusion => BD is more difficult than Div - has more edges, is not smooth, is "darker". And I think this game is challenging in a way I like => wanting to cope and understand. I am tied to it - but in a different way than in Div (Div called my inner child) - BD calls the adult in me. I'm sorry, I can't explain it better.

I do hope, my post is not defending BD at all costs or forcing my opinion unto anyone - it's just how I see the game. It has its ups and downs - places I like, quests I dislike - combat enemies I hate and fear. And moments, where I laughed my head off and thought... YEP, Larians, it's a typical Larian game.
Kiya

Fabulous post. Pretty much sums up everything I've said/thought and added in some things I had long since forgot about.

Deathknight: I pretty much overlooked his voice and demeanor for the most part.

Battlefields: Way buggy and an afterthought to balance the game due to the difficulty of Tactical (which is what the game was supposed to be played on)
I'm anxiously awaiting Morbo's attempt at playing the game on Tactical without ever entering a battlefield. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Inventory screens: I didn't hate them in BD, but they aren't quite as clean as in Divinity (which wasn't clean either by any means)

Skills: Again, this is basically what I've said repeatedly. I'll let his post stand on its own.

Story: I pretty much overlooked the whole Paladin thing as well. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, and believe that a Paladin in that situation (soul forged to a death knight) would do anything to escape and live to free himself and continue the fight against evil.

Voices: Some are funny, some aren't. Another thing I can overlook.

Neutral creatures: For this, I'll suggest that once you decide you are not going to attack neutral creatures, that clicking on them for the rest of the game would result in nothing. I got pretty annoyed in Act 1 when I kept having to answer yes or no to attack a rat.

Music: It's pretty good I think. I don't have a strong opinion on the music other than I think it gets a little repetitive at times.

Items: I agree, there are a lot of items to pick up (and I pick up EVERYTHING that isn't nailed down..plates/bottles..you name it) and a HUGE lack of good items from what I've seen thus far. I even have my main character (who is a mage) pumped with more survival (for the luck) than intelligence. I figured huge luck would yield nice loot, this has not turned out to be the case. In Divinity I remember getting a lot of wise items. This is one major problem I overlooked earlier when bringing up BD issues.

The Hero: No comment yet.

The Difficulty: I have no problem with the difficulty. I've only played on Tactical so far, but I love it. It's pretty much perfect. This could come from the fact that I play more strategic combat games a lot. (Silent Storm for one) Granted I've died a number of times simply because there is a good bit of luck involved sometimes, but I haven't had much of a problem with any fight so far. I use pause, set my strategy, use heal potions if necessary and make sure everything is going well. For the skeletal mages early on, it is not too wise to chase after them if they are going to run 30 yards away, drawing in every enemy in range to kill you.

Warriors: As far as I can tell, the only real reason to up your strength is so you're able to wield the better weapons in the game.

Merchants: Merchants gold is very low as he stated. I don't believe it regens either.

----------------------------

"I love Divine Divinity. I like Beyond Divinity. I want to love it, but I can't."

I am starting out on 'tactical' and I just ran into 4 Skeleton Mages, they are tough for my two guys, (died almost 10 times) so I'm exploring the battlefields right now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Warhammer, excellent post, just excellent. Covers my thoughts extremely well. I also agree with much of Kiya's posts.

BD has so many wonderful concepts, but they have been ruined for me by either massive bugs (my summoning doll won't stay summoned, the BF's are uselesss) or design decisions that have led to frustration rather than fun (withholding information on charms, alchemy, etc.; uncountable reloads by stepping on neutral animals; serious balance issues in combat).

Yet I love the story concept so far. I love everything about BD except the way it was actually implemented. Does that make sense? (Probably not; it barely makes sense to me and I know what I mean! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> )

I hope Larian will take BD feedback into account when constructing DD2. And yes, despite my problems with BD I will buy DD2 the moment it hits the shelves. I have confidence that Larian will analyze gamer feedback, learn from it, and give us another RPG Of The Year contender in DD2!

One thing I forgot to mention, is that in the trade screen, it would be very nice if when you click on the repair icon it would either bring items that need repaired to the top or remove all items that do not need repaired from the screen. The same goes for identifying items.

*** SPOILERS ***



Finally got past Act 3 (killed Witch Kiya, so i'm pretty confused how you replied to my post... or am I taking roleplaying a bit too far? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) and have a couple more positives and thoughts:

Positives

1) I really loved the Death Knights comments to the Necromancer during the final encounter. That was just classic, its just a shame he didn't last longer, he cast hold on my main character, but the Death Knight kicked his backside solo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> finally, he killed something instead of everything killing him.

2) I really loved the end of Act 3 in general, moved the story along well and regained my interest. I think the 'Act 4' Intro movie made me smile the most, seeing Death Knight making a "Black Bishop" kebab was pretty nice... if only it was seasoned with imps. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

3) The last necromancer quest was hilarious... that farmer in the swamp, classic.


Negatives

1) Only one, I don't know if this has been noticed by anyone else, but in Act 3 when the Ranaar priestess asks you to get her symbols, if you click on them in the wall... the DK's voice is different. I don't know if that's his Demo voice, (I never played it, I was always going to buy and didn't wanna ruin it) but it sounds quite evil. I actually prefered it I think, but it's a negative because I guess it's another bug.



*** End of Spoilers ***

I second that one about the trade screen and filtering the damaged and non-identified items...

Some good posts here, but strangley I haven't yet encountered anything seriously buggy. Not too far into the game though and am tempted to stop playing until the next patch arrives.

But I've enjoyed it so far...

Bad, bad error, Monkehman <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> - you didn't kill her - you helped her to leave Nemisis and torture you guys here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> - and all other members at my library who steal books <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />
Kiya <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

@To all: I really like the thread as it now - I learn a lot about different approaches - thank you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Well I must say I agree much (if not everything) said by dorito or Kiya. But I also know theire are something that just weren't possible to do with the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> engine (example: messy inventory ). I am happy that the problems are beeing adressed so they can plan these changes while they make the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />² engine. So Let the pro/cons list continue they are valuable feedback I was just a bit supprised with the first pages of this thread with all the cons. I think that everyone likes to read Pro/con list instead of cons/cons lists. Well but thats in the past now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

@DoritoOfDeath: I will try (and succeed) in finishing the game on tactical without going to the battle fields. I won't even manually alter my skillpoints with a hexeditor. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

So in 2 years when I finish <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> you can say "You were right" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

If you are talking about those level 8 skeleton mages, indeed, they are quite tough. But if you manage to lure one (or maybe two) at a time, and have enough potions, this is perfectly doable.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

After all, this is "tactical". So, no Arnold "Commando" style here.
Although...

BTW: has anyone tried hardcore? Is this like Diablo, where your savegames are erased when you die?

Philippe

The difficulty level only effects combat and your initial skill points; hardcore games are not erased if you die.

Warhammer:

This reminds me of the latest version of Diablo II. With the implementation of 'synergies', becoming proficient in a certain skill will slightly increase the power of similar skills. It's mostly used for spells rather than weapon proficiencies, though.

That being said, reading all your posts and reviews is making me crazy to get this game. I may have to order it if it doesn't show up in stores around here soon.

Or in the expansions of NWN, where many of the thief skills are synergistic, or like listen, search, and spot, where if you take one skill, it provides a bonus of +2 to another.

Just order from Newegg.com. If you're in the US, you can get it within 48 hours (sometimes 24). Anywhere else in the world it might take a little longer, though, but at least it would be on its way and you would know when you are getting it.

Don't worry too much. I know many people that are awaiting the next patch before continuing, in fact many of them are going to completely start over. It seems they are convinced that the Deathknight will be better suited as a mage in the long run. I am also pretty convinced of this atm. Of course, if the patch comes out in the next 2-3 days, I guess you can start worrying <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, but now you're just talking about power gaming vs roleplaying. If you want to play the DK as a mage just because it makes the game a little easier, you might as well play Diablo 2 or another action game. To me, I just can't see the DK as a mage (or as a survivor for that matter), and I just got done a successful stint as a pyromancer in WBCII (of all games), so I wanted to play a fire mage in this one. I will roleplay these characters, in spite of the fact that I am not taking the easiest path through the game.

I don't think DeathKnight mage is unheard of.