Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General Please post impressions.

My impression is also a positive one. I am playing on tactical and I have no problems. I am playing as warrior/alchemist and archer/mage. So far I have 6 skill points open to invest in a powerfull skill when I get the shaman tree unlocked. I haven't seen bugs so far (playing 1.42). The voices are good. even th DK is good. But the first line of the DK was just bad (sounded like he had a broom in his [nocando]) but later on the voice was better.



the jury is still out on the skill system (having 6 points free seems a waste.)

5-10 spells isn't very impressive, you realize. Spell slinging in Divine Divinity was fun; I felt like Emporer Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, frapping legions of orcs with lightning bolts, then reanimating their corpses. All on less than a half tank of mana. The spell costs in BD appear to be so high that your mage requires an IV drip of blue potion.


Fighters are strong -- just boring to play.


If the skills were more general (i.e., slashing weapon mastery, none of this 1H/1H+shield/2H garbage), there would be enough skill points to make a fine warrior... but he'd still be a boring meatshield without any skills he could use beyond sneak and whirlwind.

5-10 spells isn't very impressive, you realize. Spell slinging in Divine Divinity was fun; I felt like Emporer Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, frapping legions of orcs with lightning bolts, then reanimating their corpses. All on less than a half tank of mana. The spell costs in BD appear to be so high that your mage requires an IV drip of blue potion.

That's very well put! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

If the skills were more general (i.e., slashing weapon mastery, none of this 1H/1H+shield/2H garbage), there would be enough skill points to make a fine warrior... but he'd still be a boring meatshield without any skills he could use beyond sneak and whirlwind.

Same thing with the arrow skills. Who wants to play an archer that can only use one kind of arrow...? But you don't have much choice, if you want to get keep your bow skills high enough for use in later acts. The skills focus is too narrow. It's grim, it's no longer much fun.

Fable, as I'm an adept on archer skills => what do you mean with "only using one kind of arrow"? The additional damagae due to proficiency? Ive only maxed out my archer in bow skill and she does quite some damage. If I'm missing something, please, explain. So far I'm content with enough splitting/explosive arrows and keeping her out of melee. Would it make my archer life easier? Strong enemies are stunned with hammer lvl 4 and then finished off with arrows.

No, I'm not making fun of you - but so far nearly all my RPG were either paladin or mage.
Kiya

I think Fable means the "Fire Arrow Proficiency" type skills, which increase your damage when using a specific type of elemental arrow. I hadn't realized those were ever going to be important -- the increased damage from Bow Mastery is insulting (+8-12 for the first point, then like +1 every point thereafter), so I blew off the elemental arrow proficiency trainer when I saw him.

Please, explain again - was my decision to stick to the weapon and max out (on lvl 5 ) better? I haven't bought the proficiency skill. I know where - but... didn't consider it important. In orc easy archer words, please?

Yes you can buy skill points !!!
There is a black market for skill points. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

The skill points are stolen to some gamers and then they are sold to other ones.

It is the same black market than for the number of posts in the forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

Some forum members are aware of this system. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Well, I'm no expert since I'm still trying to muck my way through the first act but I started out beefing up my strength and intelligence straight off the bat. Neither one of my characters has any skillpoints in Warrior training except for craftsmanship (Identify, repair). And the DK is pretty good in melee even without the training, though he pretty much is a hacker. My character, is a wizard who also has no warrior training but wields a pretty good bow. In other words, I cannot access the skillpoints to train my characters as warriors. I just might take you up on your suggestion and try playing act 1 as a fighter who uses no magic (except for the survivor skills).

I know I've posted this already somewhere else on this board, but when creating spells in BD, I've found it best to save my level up games and take time to experiment with spell creation before committing to a particular one (i.e., focussed missile v. instant). And, as a general rule, I always create a good, old fashioned fire spell in any RPG I tackle. Often times that's all you need in the beginning. Monsters who are immune to fire usually spawn toward the middle or end of games thereby increasing their difficulty. Then again, I've been proven wrong using this theory.

But when creating a good mage, I concentrate on intelligence, agility, speed, strength and constitution. Those are the 5 major areas where I dump those skillpoints. Anything after that is icing on the cake (for me). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's been a pleasure, as always. Talk with you later, Bif! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

I finally managed to complete the game last night, after the patch (it fixed my battlefield problems and I could finally restock potions and buy new armour etc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" />). The story was great, I can see what you meant now Kiya. Larian did a great job with the plot imo, I genuinely liked how it ended. Made me feel a mixed bag of emotions, which is always good in my view. I hate boring endings, makes me think of those sicky love stories or soap opera's on TV. *yawn*.

Final Impressions - After Completion

Skill Points: I still have the same issues with skill points, that won't go, but as i've said in the past: I love character development and getting attached to them.

Linear Gameplay: I actually LIKE the linearity of the plot though, after completing the game. It makes a nice change from Divine Divinity in my view, and gives me reason to continue playing the excellent DD. One with and one without (linear gameplay) actually gives me reason to play both instead of just playing BD alone as the updated version. Keeps DD fresh. I just wish as I said, there were less 'attention' grabbers which divert my view from the main plot. Act 3 had a little too many side quests and I got a little confused during it.

Music / Sounds: For some reason after patch 1.42 I started hearing songs I never have before. I do not know if some songs were 'stopped' by a bug, but I only heard 1 or 2 songs playing in a loop. Now I hear the full music and it no longer sounds like the musicians are playing at a funeral. Hooray for that. I love the music in the Divinity worlds. Dunno if it is the same song, but I also heard something sounding like the Dark Forest tune in Battlefields. Love that song, so catchy.

SPOILERS BELOW, WARNING WARNING (etc)

Difficulty: I never thought a fight could be as hard as Josephina (spelling?) In Divine Divinity... however the last enemy in Beyond Divinity made me use so many potions, I am due to meet with 'Alchamedic's Anonymous' on Monday. The feeling after killing the bugger was oh so good though. Bit of a shock however, as anything before that one enemy was pretty easy to kill. Overall the game is a good balance, just wish there was some warning before these fights, they are pretty eye opening when they suddenly occur <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />.

Overall: A good game. I kind of agree with the general reviews around of 70-80%, it's good but not great. I think everyone's expectations are a tad too high after Divine Divinity, but I would of prefered just a little more freedom with character development and less 'walled in' quests/sections. Being stuck in the Act 4 location made me feel a bit claustrophobic. Definately worth completing though and i'd recommend anyone with patience buying it.

If people play this as <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> and not Divine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />, the game is very playable and enjoyable (As long as bugs don't occur that stop progress).

Now i'm going to go through again as a magic user.

In closing: We all got bugs, I got as frustrated as any, but it didn't stop me playing the game. I was satisfied when I completed it, but I can understand those who cant play a bugged game. I'm just used to it I guess.

Good game, hats off to Larian for a great story again. Can't wait for DD2 to see what happens next.

Impressions...

I'm somewhere in act 1 atm, and also playing a bit in the battleground. Impressions aren't final yet, since I know what act 3 is like, and act 1 is totally different.

I like the skill system. You have to invest cash first, then skillpoints. So you have to think about it, twice. And players will make mistakes in that, but that's also a part of RPGaming. It's different from DD, it's a challenge, I like it. I don't play that many games, I don't know if other games have similar.

Combat has become different, more slow I would say. I'm pauzing all the time. I didn't intend to take archery and a bow, since arrows aren't unlimited anymore and have to be purchased or found or whatever, but now I think that's an improvement over DD, where the unlimited arrow-supplies was making the game somewhat unbalanced. There are plenty of arrows around.

The mana use is a bit too high. A bit of a decent elemental attack takes a big bite out of the available amount.

The graphics are exactly as I expected them to be.

I like the voices, except for that Imp that says "always fun exchanging stuff". Annoying little bugger.

I haven't patched yet. But the inventory interface should be better with the latest patch? I liked the DD interface better.

I'm an occasional player, I do a lot of other stuff besides gaming. And I don't think that the Beyond Divinity CD is going to leave my CD-ROM player in the coming months <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Indeed, I believe I know exactly the imp you mean. A couple also say a similar line upon trading later too. Perhaps we need a staff called "Imp Spanker" or something. The mind boggles. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

"But you're practically demanding that the developer change the skillpoints to your specifications and only THEN will you buy the game. LOL"

Um.. I really didn't expect them to make a gameplay change on my behalf alone, I was simply trying to stir the pot to see if any other prospective buyers felt the same way.

"Btw, what about those of us who like things the way they are? Hmmmm?)"

If there were a system where you could *optionally* buy skill points, you could continue to play the game as you are, it affects you not at all. Right?

"wait.. let us buy skillpoints!


you can't - you don't have the game."


I couldn't even if I had the game.


"Both of my characters *really* are mages and the spells rock!"

Ok, question for you then. Could you please tell me how many spells there are (approximate is fine), and how many you:

1. Specialize in. You rock critters socks using these spells.

2. How many you can put just one or two skill points into and still have it be effective for a good portion of your characters life?

The only problem I would have is if my mage was super gimped. Unable but to say, specialize in a couple of damage spells, and a very small handful of additional spells that were rather ineffective after a short period of time. Is this a problem, or are you able to have a versatile arsenal? And if so, is there a few skill points left over for additional skills not related to mage-dom?

Thanx for any info.. this is the sort O stuff I would like to know.

As far as being an editor, I wouldn't bother looking for errors in my posts, they are bound to be so full of them you will go nuts trying to correct them all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


FleabitFox

Good questions, Flea and I'll answer them to the best of my ability. Anyway, you want to know how many spells there are. See, it's not like in DD where there were a limited number of [specific] spells you could choose from and then increase in level as you went along. In BD you actually create your own spells (brewing them right in your own kitchen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> ) according to how you want to customize your character. There are 4 elements: Fire, Water, Air and Earth. The types of spells are: spread, focussed, instant, missile (there might be others, I'm still in Act 1).


So, it's not the pick and choose type of game where spells are concerned. There are 4 paths to choose from: Warrior, Wizard, Survivor and Summoning Dolls. Within each of those paths are other paths. I.e., under Wizard you can create a four faceted elemental spell of Fire, Water, Air, Earth which can either be in missile form, spread out over all the enemies or focussed (not sure I understand the differences between focussed and instant yet, but I'm working on it). You can start out as a warrior (which is probably not a bad idea for the first few levels) and then add wizard abilities. Or, you can begin as a Wizard, create a level 1 fire spell that will squish the skeletons and monsters you meet in the very first dungeon. You're not locked into one particular way of customizing or creating a character. So, from that point of view, it's a lot different from DD. As an avid gamer, I am giving myself time to get used to the new system before I make any passing judgments. Character creation is much more elaborate and frankly, I am having fun with it.

I save my level up games so I can create spells that I think would be good for the battles I will encounter and hope for the best. If the spell I created is too weak, I'm able to go back and change it without losing hours and hours of game play. So, it's like this when you gain a new level: You click on either create a new skill or click on one of the spells you already created. Every 5th level you are given 2 skillpoints - just like in DD.

So, that's your answer to how many spells there are. The answer is: Unlimited.

As for specializing, I'm not sure I understand what you want to know. There was no real 'specializing' in DD (if I remember correctly). I didn't become a "fire mage" or anything like that. The spell creation system is pretty fascile. Although I haven't found a way to make a sleeping spell - but please keep in mind -- I'm still in the beginning. Someone else may be able to answer this question for you better than I. But more to your concerns, the answer is I find this particular system more versatile than the one in DD. And frankly, there really is no comparing the two as they are vastly different. So, the lightning spell [or whatever kind of spell you create] you use in the beginning of the game can be easily increased in power to whack those monsters that pummel us into the ground later in the game.

As for Question #2: You can create as weak or as strong a spell as you want. I've stated a couple of places on this board that I like playing RPGs as a mage and the first thing I do in most cases is buy or create a good fire spell. So, I did that here in BD. It's at a level 2 right now, I can add points to it (and you can take them away, for a price) or leave it where it's at for however long I want. I can also make another fire spell at a level 3 and have both level 2 and level 3 in my arsenal which is much more versatile than the way it was set up in DD.

See, this whole character creation system is sooooooooo different from any other game I've played and trust me, I have just about every major RPG that's been on the market for over the past 10-15 years.

I hope this helps clarify some of the questions you've had about BD. Have you even tried the demo? And the demo doesn't even do the actual game justice. It's nowhere near on par or scale of what the actual game is like in terms of atmosphere, NPCs, music, items/weapons, etc. The demo only gives a tiny taste of what to expect, IMHO.

So there you have it! Hope this helped somewhat.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

I've found that with a couple of points in general bow accuracy and one in damage, my archer (when last seen) scored a hit one-third of the time, and did very little damage. How much damage are you doing, and by "maxed out," how many points did you put into bow skill? What's the damage on the weapon you're using, and what are your archer's stats?

I'm not trying to make fun of you, either. I'm just frustrated at how poorly my archer/mage has been performing, and am seriously considering putting the game aside until Larian balances skills better. However, if I'm not optimizing my archer/mage properly, then I'll be much happier, and will gladly continue playing (though I wish they'd fix lockpick, pickpocket, etc!). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

you will hate it later if your like me beacsue you will still be in act 1 2 million years later.....bloody great fun.....yay. also i cant be arsed with patches because it involves effort for a poor excuse of a game.

Great Gameplay, graphics and sound, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
but TOO MANY BUGS !!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />
Really, the fun you should have from playing this game drops to zero
because of the bugs.
I really hope upcoming patches improve this.

Fable, I will post the damage my archer makes this night (am at work). As for fixing lockpick => I'm sure this will be done.

About fixing pickpocket => NOOO, it's fine as it is! I have lvl 3 and can pinch 3x high leveled stuff. I only go for money and my splitting arrows - and if I find a nice charm. I like it the way it is.

In earlier versions (1.0/1.1) I could even steal quest items and keys - but this was "fixed" <sniff>. I didn't need to kill floogie for the stupid football - now I have to, if I want to fulfill the quest - so, in later versions I refrained from doing this quest. I could enter a locked room in Act 3 by stealing the key - now I can't. No clue, how to get that either. In earlier versions I could right click on an item - use "give to" and get what I wanted. I only needed lvl 1 for this - now I have to use more precious skill pts. Yes, it was overpowered - I agree - but it was fun! And no one was forced to use it. I could even steal money from monsters. Please, don't propagate a fix to make it more difficult to steal (if I understood you correctly).

What might be a fix for you - is spoiling fun for a cleptomaniac as me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

Really, is it a game for upright paladins only? Not for me - it's a world at war in Nemisis - and I would like to thieve my through.

Ah, well, I can if these "fixes" continue, I can simply re-install my German version and play it with 1.1 (kept all patch versions) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> - ok, I have no large BF trader items respawn or all these high skills, changing every act - so what? I could not steal large amounts of money or wade in potions - so what? I could enter the BF to trade at any time, I did not have these crashes - ok, I have no pyramids in Act 3, so what? I didn't miss them at that time. AND: I have my inventory as it was - the way I liked it. Yes, there were monsters missing in some BF end levels - so what? And quests turned blue again there => so what? They get erased anyway by moving on. And about the missing luck boost for the mushroom in Act 2? Bah, didn't need it. Yes, I had a plot stopper and had to take care to keep linear order => no prob for me. I know how to do it. And at that time, I had the holy water to make unlimited potions at a reasonable stats change, not overpowered. Had to gather plants very patiently for this.
Kiya

My saintly patience has just evaporated after reading all these posts about how versatile the game truly is... dammit! I even re-installed the demo yesterday in desperation for a taste of the real thing, but it was like drinking Diet Coke... nice, but ultimately unsatisfying.

The strong impression I get from the hardcore players (Kiya in particular) is that while the skill system might seem a little strange at first, it is in fact very flexible and will allow me to experiment to my heart's content, and my character's strengths and weaknesses will become more pronounced depending on what I choose.

It also seems to me that it is the gamers who want instant gratification that are getting fed up with BD. I await the chance to find out for myself what all the fuss is about with bated breath... although at this rate I am going to die LONG before I get my copy... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />. Ah well, c'est la vie.

C'mon, CNA, hurry up!!

I can't speak for Kiya, but as for myself (and at least some others): yes, the skill system is potentially quite flexible. No, it is not currently balanced, and rather inflexible, especially in Act I. It also lacks enough skill points to allow the player to experiment properly with different character configurations. I've suggested before that one possible remedy for this is to de-link skill points-per-level from monster hit points, and make them separate options before game start. As skill points are a major concern of the player base, I suspect Larian will look at this. They're certainly receptive to suggestions.

Good luck with getting a copy! The game is playable in its current state, but there remain some bugs (amazingly heavy amulets, no lockpicking, manically over-active pickpocketing, people stuck in the Battlefields) and quite a few balance issues to address. What's selling the product now is the game's vision. Its ability to deliver still lags.

DDP that is a fair description of the game.
I myself can't understand why people are complaining about a lack of skill points. Or that a lot of skills are thrash or even worthless.

Skills are bonusses ontop of your general abilities.
I mean in my current run I have tow points in an offensive ability (1 fire dart 1 heal), the rest are in skills that most other people would consider worthless (except Lockpick that one is just broken), like luck, wisdom, embellish. Why? Because I can <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
And because I don't have |_| |3 3 R combat skills I actually need to think a bit before taking out a high level mob or a group of mobs. That is instead of just rushing into the fight and then just get bloated on potions when it is a tad tougher then expected.

But I know the game mechanics so I don't get stuck with a truly unworkable character (or group of characters).
Still learning how the game works isn't that much of a chore (except trying to stuff a mushroom into any avaible bottle)