Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General Please post impressions.

My impression is that when a thread is moved to another forum because it might seem 'negative'.. my impressions of the game go down considerably. I was waffling about getting this game, now I doubt I will. I have *never* had a thread moved on a board, or deleted.

I started the "Change skill points, I'll buy this game!" thread. I was asking about skill points, and then it evolved into a discussion about different ways the skill points could be done to make specializing an easier (and more fun) thing to do.

It was moved to "technnical problems."

Huh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

This is a technical problem how?

Seems the mods want to keep prospective buyers of this game seeing only nice shiny happy posts about this game. And that irritates me to no end. Sweep the problems under a rug will ya?

The possibility of buying this game went from "waffling" to "not likely!"

I'll be sure to spread the joy, to.

Pity, 'cause I loved Div Div so!

FleabitFox

As you can clearly see for yourself, Flea, the BD and DD forums are huge. Not only does Larian cater to English speaking people but also German, French, etc. Almost every message/post becomes automatically buried amongst the flotsom and jetsom of consumer criticism. What started out for you as a simple inquiry, turned into something else. I highly doubt you or your post was singled out and viewed as a perspective "threat" of uncovering some vast conspiracy Larian is trying to cover up regarding their game. LOL I mean, give me a break!

So, you're not going to buy the game. That's cool. I've always shot off my other foot after shooting the first one. And I throw the baby out with the bath water. Why? It's reasonable, of course! Pullease! Cut the hystrionics and drama. Save it for when you do buy the game because you're going to need it then. And, should you decide not to buy the game, then the only person who really suffers is you (or maybe not suffer, but you certainly miss out on one fun experience!).


I think the Larian crew is trying to dance as fast as they can, even when the music has lost its tone. I pre-ordered BD and I always live and stand by my choices, even when they do not meet my original expectations. That's not to say that BD didn't meet my expectations - it has surpassed them. I am having just as much fun if not more playing BD than DD. It's much more challenging. I'm certainly not zipping through the game and all of its quests like I did in DD. I have been playing it for a week or so now. Restarted probably 4 times but that's my "M.O." with any RPG like this. (Morrowind took me at least 10 starts before I made it through the storyline). I still don't have a summoning doll! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> Maybe today!?! But more to the point, with all of the patches that have been released, the bugs in the game (which on my computer are due to the way *I* have things set up), wading through the complaints on this forum, I absolutely enjoy Larian's product. I support them and will continue to do so.

Simply because your post was moved to the Technical Forum does not mean Larian has some huge ulterior motive to 'scam' its consumers.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

I wish I was having fun, Faralas. I *did* buy the game, based on the strengths of Divine Divinity and the solid potential of the demo, but some 10 *hours* later, I just got out of Act 1, and my characters aren't any fun to play. Fleabit is right to be annoyed about his post being moved; I started an experience discussion in General this morning; it'd be interesting to see if it got moved, too.

The fun of building up characters who can do something other than swat weapons is missing in this experience, at least for me. My characters don't do anything but kill monsters a little more efficiently, and take a little less damage. Goodie. I understand the game gets a lot less linear after Act 1, but I'm so burned out of "click the monster," and that's *all* my characters can do, since I don't have the skill points or the mana to go mage.

Basically, I'm now stuck with a game that is no fun for me to play. I'm hopeful that some SERIOUS balance tweaks get done, preferably by increasing the effectiveness of skill points, giving you more of them, getting rid of junky skills, and getting rid of superfluous weapon skills (1H weapon <> 1H + shield). If not, I'll probably just fire up a hex editor and give myself what *I* think would be fair... but that's hardly the gaming experience I wanted to spend $40 on.

I already posted this in the "Convince me" thread, but I didn't feel like redoing it for this one, so here it is again! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


Alright, time for my 2 cents. Let me start off by saying that I've played both DD and BD all the way through to the finish.

I loved DD. Its one of the greatest games I've ever played, so its hard not to compare it to a game from the same company set in the same universe.

Graphics, music, and sound were all great in BD. Gameplay wise, it doesn't compare to DD. I've seen some people post with things like, "What did you expect, a clone, a rehash?" My answer is....yes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

BD is too linear. The very fact its broken into acts makes it linear. I still remember the first time I took a look at the journal in DD and opened the map: "Holy [nocando]!!! This game is freakin' huge!! And I can go anywhere MY path takes me?"

The atmosphere in BD is not as immersive as DD overall. Maybe its because the focus of gameplay is on both the "hero" and the deathknight as opposed to just the hero. However, I think its also in the little details, too. They took out the Traits page. <shakes head> How could they take out the traits page?

I don't know, it just seems to me that theres less of everything in BD. Less attributes (same points per level, but more attributes to spread them over), less skills (you pretty much have to specialize), less loot, less non-linearity, less immersion, less journal features (no traits <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />), just less of everything.

The skill system. Yup, I'm another of the "whiners" who doesn't like it. Its the exact opposite of DD. In DD I could be anything, warrior, mage, battlemage, you name it. In BD, you can only be one thing and that not very well. I mean seriously, when I think warrior, I think master of weapons. Not in BD. The most you can hope for is master of A weapon. When I think mage, I think master of magic. Again, not in BD. The most you can hope for is a master of one spell. Granted, your characters <rationalizing mode engaged> can trip and hit their heads (and have their pockets picked while their lying unconscious on the ground) to forget their skills and learn new ones <rationalizing mode disengaged> but its just too specialized for my taste. I WANT to be a powerhouse! I want my enemies to fear the sight of me!

Overall, the game was still fun, especially Act IV, but its no <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />. But then again, it comes far closer to <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> than any other game on the market. In the end, you must try it for yourself, for only you can be the judge!

And a special note for those who complain about complainers: We are not clones. Everyone has an opinion on the game. You are NOT the opinion police. Please don't dismiss anyone's opinion as "complaining" just because it differs from yours. Instead, express your own point of view on the game and let us all see things from a different perspective. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />




Disclaimer: All opinions in this post are those of the author, and therefore outweigh anyone else's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

From the tone of your message I sense you feel the same frustration I did two days ago and believe me, I can empathize. Before yesterday I didn't even realize there was a 'world' outside of the dungeon area in Act 1. I naturally assumed that as characters we start out in a Dungeon and once we escape, we'd find land similar to that in DD. And my escape was going ssssssllooooooooow. Frustratingly so. That is until I decided to start again and customize my own characters (even the DK) right from the beginning. Both are wizards. I haven't spent a lot of time on figuring out the skillpoint system but from the little I do know and the way I've developed both characters, I am at least getting somewhere this time around. As of this minute I'm a level 11 Wizard in Samuel's fortress but I have the ability to jump back and forth between Battlefields/Merchants whenever I want. That's what's so truly great about BD. Btw, I still haven't found the teleporter stones or summoning dolls. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

Two days ago, I kept getting blasted by four level 4 skeleton mages back in Samuel's dungeon and I thought, "Man, either I'm doing something wrong or this game is for the birds." More often than naught, it's me who has either overlooked something or missed a chest or door that's vital to opening up another part of the game.

And to set the record straight, I didn't mean to imply that Flea had no right to be upset or frustrated. Not by a long shot. No, I simply don't think Larian is purposely trying to mislead their customers or sell them a shoddy product. Some people will like this game and others won't. It's as simple as that.

I just finished Gothic I and II. I tried NWNs after that but for some reason, I am having a hard time getting used to the interface and gameplay. So that was frustrating for me so when BD arrived in the mail, I immediately loaded it and have been playing it ever since.

You sound like you're a fairly avid gamer so you already know that ten hours is not that long in a game as big as BD. I'm hoping to play this game for as long as possible. I have just about every other game on the market and I have to say that DD and BD are unique. I guess I like the "spirit" of the storyline and game play. Sorry you're not having fun yet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" /> Keep trying though. You never know what's around that corner or on that wall that you haven't clicked on or seen yet!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />




Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

The designation of acts is purely an arbitrary one, and something that most RPG development teams I'm aware of (and I know people in several, and used to belong to one) do. Hell, even DD had three acts: the Diabloesque opening city, the extremely large and non-linear world, and the (sadly) empty desert. It's just a convention. It's what you do within any act, and how you join 'em together, I think, that gives that sense of non-linearity.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is linear and claustrophobic in Act I; and I think that act goes on too long without enough variety of color and incident. I'm reminded of the first dungeon in Baldur's Gate 2, where there was far more to discover in a smaller dungeon--and then, you were out, in the middle of an incredibly colorful and varied community. Bioware designed the contrast beautifully.

That said, Act II is considerably less linear. Each act is unique, and feels different.

Good points. However, DD had at most 2 acts. The opening dungeon did not have to be done right away. It certainly made it easier to do it first, but you didn't have to. The desert was so small compared to the rest of the game I thought of it more as an encore than an act. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

If I hadn't been "spoiled" by knowing there was an end to the dungeon slum, I wouldn't have gotten as far as to discover it personally. It's just too damn long.

2 wizards, hunh? Tough row to hoe! How do you deal with the incredibly costly spells? Just port back and forth to the Battlefields to restock on small mana potions?

The problem I'm having isn't in survival; I'm actually fairly efficient (both my characters are using low agility requiring swords that have been sharpened to nearly 3x their starting damage, toggled with using splitting arrow bows when meleeing gets too hard for my low HP hero). The problem is that I'm bored. And you're right, 10 hours is nothing to an avid gamer; I'd feel cheated if I beat the game in anything less than 30-40 hours. But I just don't see myself enjoying any more time spend in BD, not based on the last 10 hours of gaming investment I've already sunk in.


Naturally -- I'd enjoy it more myself if the similarities to DD's playing style were greater. There's just nothing fun for a non-mage to do BESIDES click on monsters, whereas in the original, warriors and survivors had all sorts of little tricks they could do to soften up combat. The lack of useable skills, coupled with the lack of skill points and the plethora of broken or awful skills, really limits how much I care to develop my heroes. I don't think that Larian is attempting to be deceitful in any way... but for crying out loud, some skills just do not work at all!

I'm still eager to play; I know a lot of work goes into Larian's games, and I'm sure I'll enjoy what's to come. Which is why I'm lurking here instead of playing -- I'm waiting to see if things improve. As they are now, I don't like the playing experience I've had so far, and I'm not willing to play anymore. If things change for the better in terms of game balance, I'd fire up my copy as soon as the patch was installed.

i am sorry to say this but beyond divnity is complete bollox. the combat is slow, the level advancement is slow, the skill allocation is really bad, the first 10hours or more of gameplay are really boring and i thought i was going to fall asleep and what happended to freedom?
you start in a dungeon, which is fair enough but i didnt think i would still be in it a week later. why have the traders in the battlefields got no money? Why is the game so stupidly irritating because of all the gay stuff the deathknight says? why couldnt you have just had 3d characters in divnine divinity? it would have been a better game, possibly the best.........you have failed larien, for shame. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

See, while I'm not happy with Beyond Divinity, I'm not trolling about it. Thor, the money thing's been fixed; battlefield merchants are filthy with cash nearly every time I visit with a full load. The other issues you mention I agree with (except the Deathknight, who I find amusing) -- those all could well be corrected with a solid effort to balance the game.

Hopefully, that's coming...

Thor, with respect, I think you're getting too wrapped up in it, and it's really frustrating you--I don't think you'd be posting as you are, or responding in the way you have elsewhere to light ribbing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> Try another game for a week. Let the patch blitz pass. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is pretty stable, now, though I agree with the reviewer in IGN that skills are very unbalanced. Hopefully, that will be fixed, too, in time. Meanwhile, disperse your energies among several activities; maybe play another game or two. Once you download the latest patch and give <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> another try, maybe you'll like it. Not that I'll know, but why it's hardly worth the effort getting so frustrated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm not in hysterics or anything (and I'm a girl btw, not a guy).. I'm just really curious that my thread was moved to a forum that has nothing to do with the topic. I don't feel there is a conspiracy, especially by Larian.. I doubt those who moderate these boards work for Larian.

And I never go into hysterics, I'm just cross. I had a valid post about ways to perhaps enhance the skill system, and it gets moved to no mans land. I mean sheesh.. they could have at *least* moved it to suggestions or something instead! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

And as far as the game goes.. I defended Div Div adamantly, from its silly name to the gameplay. I loved it, finished it, and thought it was one of the better CRPGs I had played in awhile.. and i play a lot of 'em!

I want to get this.. heck, I almost bought it today. I held the box in my hands. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. The skill system is flat out wonky. When a warrior can't even completely specialize in say.. two weapons, something is wrong. A mage should be proficient in several types of magic, not just one spell.. that's just silly imo.

I like posting suggestions in the main forum for a few reasons. For one, it is the most read. For two, the devs DO read the forums, at least some of 'em do. And three, if enough people are vocal about something, oftenly they will listen and change it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I would like to think i'm a very good board citizen. I've posted on the Gone Gold and other boards for a long time, and i've never got a warning point.. had a post moved.. or caused a fuss. I just want this game to be as good as it *could* be with some tweaking. I just feel the skills really *really* need some tweaking. Let us eat cake!

wait.. let us buy skillpoints! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

I really want to be a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> that is skilled in more than a couple spells.

FleabitFox

I think 2 skills per level is stupid, you will be godly for most of the game, as it was not balanced to have that many points, also buying skill points would accomplish the same thing, over-powered characters.

I'm level 24 now and my guys are pretty balanced in terms of winning and losing battles. Battles that are supposed to be hard are, and battles that are supposed to be a cinch I blow through, If I had twice as many skill points as I do now this game would be so easy.

And my Mage is doing pretty good, hes got Party buff, Insect swarm, Spike, Hammer, Lightning Storm, and Party Heal all level 3-5 and performing nice on the monsters in Act 3.

When I want another spell I just substitute one of those out for it, with the new patch money is no problem. I can see the criticism towards melee skills, my DK could use some more points, but for mages its pretty easy to have a nice build with the amount of skills in the game already.

Also I enjoyed the first dungeon, its all a matter of taste, for some reason some people hate dungeons, it makes them feel like they are restricted and chained down by the game, but if you just sit back and enjoy the game for what it is you will see that it is a very nice dungeon with lots of humor and attention to detail throughout.

Some people are too bent out of shape about linear vs non-linear gameplay, I dont view one as better then the other, but rather as two different game styles, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.

When a thread is moved to another section it is not a punishment.

There is a punishment when the thread is locked or when it is completely deleted.

I guess that there is an explanation. Maybe because the programmers use to read first the posts in the technical section which is not a "no man's land" but a very important section.
They are working on the patch and they don't have time to read all the posts in the general section.

Or maybe it is just an error. They wanted to move this thread instead of yours :
Some things i think could help fixing !

If you are pretty worried you could send a PM to Lynn or rat and ask why your thread has been moved.

I use to be in this forum since nearly one year and i can assure you that there is nothing bad about your topic.

Barta

Now that you've explained your frustration in further depth, I do understand it. I don't normally play as a warrior (not just BD or DD - any game). So, of course, I can see why your gameplay is frustrating. You're right, there are no special or combination moves the avatar makes other than whirlwind or sneak. (This is to my limited knowledge since I haven't played as a fighter. I could be wrong and often times, I am! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ).

As for playing as 2 wizards, I thought it would be a pain in the butt and I'd be on an intravenous drip of mana but surprisingly the way I've created my spells, that hasn't happened yet. Yes, I do jump back and forth between battlefields and the dungeon. Every time I jump out, the merchant restocks and it takes only a couple of minutes before I have enough potions to go on for another few hours. But I think I have a bug in my game. LOL

************************ POTENTIAL SPOILER ****************************







I'm patched to v 1.4 and everytime I kill a guard (named or unnamed -- in the training room of the drilling compound), I end up with a gazillion arrows (of every kind!). So, instead of using gold as 'gold', I've been using arrows. The Spiritual arrows (I think I have about 797 of them) bring in mondo $$. I already have over 30,000 normal arrows and that was accumulated from this afternoon's game play! LOL I don't think this was supposed to happen but I'm not going to complain.

***********************************************************************

But your point is well taken. If the game is no longer fun for you, it's time to move on to another one. As I've stated previously, I'm not 100% sure I understand the skillpoints system all that well. And certainly not well enough to offer suggestions for changes. But, so far, it's worked for me. I'm glad that you jumped into the discussion, Bif! It's been great talking with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, so am I but I don't think I made any reference to your gender. Apologies if I did so unaware.




Probably because this has to do with "Posting [players] impressions" [regarding the game], and since you don't have the game but are offering advice, why not post the message where the people who 'need' to see it, actually see it! Then again, you could always ask the moderator of the forum why your post was moved. Communication is the key to any success. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />




Your message reads differently. And yes, I believe some of the moderators do work for Larian.



Never? Wowie!! You're a much better woman than I! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Cross or hysterical, it makes no difference. You're right - you had a valid post that you can (believe it or not) still copy and paste into the "Suggestions" forum! But if I were you (and I'm not, obviously), I'd query the moderator.



If your post was merely a suggestion, that would be fine. But you're practically demanding that the developer change the skillpoints to your specifications and only THEN will you buy the game. LOL (Btw, what about those of us who like things the way they are? Hmmmm?) And, from what I can see, your point and message have been directed to the appropriate people. What more could you ask for? *covers ears* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />



Welcome to your first official 'fuss'! Good job! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />



Since I'm an editor, I'm taking the liberty of changing that last sentence to "Let me eat cake." You do not speak for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />




You can't - you don't have the game. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />



Both of my characters *really* are mages and the spells rock! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />




Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />
P.S. All responses were meant tongue in cheek. Author has been under the influence of Summoning Doll and Imps all afternoon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Bingo. This as opposed to DD, which had a pretty fun assortment of fun warrior skills (boomerang, that move where you throw a bunch of clones of yourself in a straight line, poison weapons, multishot, elemental arrows, etc etc etc). I actually felt like I was doing something in DD; if I could set both of my party members to aggressive AI, I wouldn't need to do anything but order them to move to another location and kill more monsters <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />


Got the same bug, if indeed it is a bug; money, good charms, and of course, sweet sweet arrows are super plentiful. And the equipment, if you're shopping for rings or nice bows, isn't that hard to come by as it was in DD. That I appreciate.

As for arrows > gold, yeah. That's an incredibly unbalancing thing, particularly for as damaging as Splitting Arrows are (if you're about 2 inches from your target, they shatter right on your foe, doing all 5 hits -- that and splinter arrows seem to ignore target defense partially or totally). That's what initially attracted me to bow wielding, toggled with a sword and shield once enemies were sufficiently whittled down.


You haven't seen the last of me yet, Faralas! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> I still *do* intend to play, I'm just waiting for some balance before I invest any more play time. I'm to the point where I'm sure I don't want to continue playing the game [color:"red"]as it is now[/color], but I would like to play it if the skill boredom for non-mages (and the mana woes for mages, if the costs and inefficiency are an accurate indicator) can be reversed.

But yeah, disagree though we might, it's fun talking to you -- try a warrior for a little while, and you'll get the hang of what act 1 was like for me; point-click-chop. I'd like to try a mage (maybe leave the warrior on constant AI) -- what skills should I focus on?

I have no problems with mana as a mage, its just not much of an issue, I always have plenty of potions, and can cast about 5-10 times before I have to drink a potion again.

Just think some didnt play far enough to truly make your characters good, the games very hard at the beginning, thats universally understood, but too many people are playing Act 1 then commenting as if they played the entire game. Making comments like Mages suck and fighters are weak...my fighter is strong and my mage kicks butt, so I cannot relate.

I'm not refutting alot of the stuff said here, I agree there should be some changes to fighter skills and the way they work, but I dont know if more skill points is the answer.

I think the game is great. Im only on act 1 still though.
Im really looking forward to learning more about the Imps.

I think the voice actor for the death knight is mediocre at best. I like it more than the old voice though by a large margin i dun care what anyone says ;o) The problem in both of these actors, assumedly different, is that they are not acting the lines, just reading them all in the same voice.
The author of the dialouge of the death knight gave it lots of different emotions it was relating. Its not always angry or bored. Anyhow the voice actor doesnt do it justice that just the final word. But no big deal...

Some of what I think are new voices for the imp character s are very good though and funny, they sound like east-Indians.

Im addicted I cant wait til i have time to play tommorow.


PS starforce 3 was a good investment( recalling a developer diary I read here on this forum about the copy protection). I cant copy it even though my program says it copys it.... so I hope my disc doesnt scratch

My impression is also a positive one. I am playing on tactical and I have no problems. I am playing as warrior/alchemist and archer/mage. So far I have 6 skill points open to invest in a powerfull skill when I get the shaman tree unlocked. I haven't seen bugs so far (playing 1.42). The voices are good. even th DK is good. But the first line of the DK was just bad (sounded like he had a broom in his [nocando]) but later on the voice was better.



the jury is still out on the skill system (having 6 points free seems a waste.)