Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General Convince me

Hm, Alrik - I had a trader who did - but from all games I possess, I only brought 1 back (a Cryo Engine game - I got sick from movement motion, my eyes couldn't stand it).

Back to topic - I don't want to convince you - why? I don't know your preferences - are you a gamer liking to hack&slash your way through an action RPG and loot? Are you one of the "kill-first-ask-later" faction?

Are you a gamer disliking to read a quest log? Do you like to click yourself out of conversations instead of thinking about them and keeping them in mind?

Do you like to experiment? Find stuff out for yourself? Do you like to understand the "game logic"? Do you like linearity? Or, are you able to understand at what point linearity has to chuck in? In other words => what is the fun factor for you? Do you like brainy riddles? Do you like to explore worlds that are at sometimes sinister?

How can I convince you, if I know nothing about the way you like to play? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

Hey Alrik, I've had the same BS from shopkeepers too. I just lie. Tell them the game will not work/install properly or something. What are they gonna do? Test it right there? Not worth the hassle to them.

The worst pain's in the arses for this are Best Buy in the US, who you have to kick up a stink for to get a refund. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Alright, time for my 2 cents. Let me start off by saying that I've played both DD and BD all the way through to the finish.

I loved DD. Its one of the greatest games I've ever played, so its hard not to compare it to a game from the same company set in the same universe.

Graphics, music, and sound were all great in BD. Gameplay wise, it doesn't compare to DD. I've seen some people post with things like, "What did you expect, a clone, a rehash?" My answer is....yes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

BD is too linear. The very fact its broken into acts makes it linear. I still remember the first time I took a look at the journal in DD and opened the map: "Holy [nocando]!!! This game is freakin' huge!! And I can go anywhere MY path takes me?"

The atmosphere in BD is not as immersive as DD overall. Maybe its because the focus of gameplay is on both the "hero" and the deathknight as opposed to just the hero. However, I think its also in the little details, too. They took out the Traits page. <shakes head> How could they take out the traits page?

I don't know, it just seems to me that theres less of everything in BD. Less attributes (same points per level, but more attributes to spread them over), less skills (you pretty much have to specialize), less loot, less non-linearity, less immersion, less journal features (no traits <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />), just less of everything.

The skill system. Yup, I'm another of the "whiners" who doesn't like it. Its the exact opposite of DD. In DD I could be anything, warrior, mage, battlemage, you name it. In BD, you can only be one thing and that not very well. I mean seriously, when I think warrior, I think master of weapons. Not in BD. The most you can hope for is master of A weapon. When I think mage, I think master of magic. Again, not in BD. The most you can hope for is a master of one spell. Granted, your characters <rationalizing mode engaged> can trip and hit their heads (and have their pockets picked while their lying unconscious on the ground) to forget their skills and learn new ones <rationalizing mode disengaged> but its just too specialized for my taste. I WANT to be a powerhouse! I want my enemies to fear the sight of me!

Overall, the game was still fun, especially Act IV, but its no <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />. But then again, it comes far closer to <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> than any other game on the market. In the end, you must try it for yourself, for only you can be the judge!

And a special note for those who complain about complainers: We are not clones. Everyone has an opinion on the game. You are NOT the opinion police. Please don't dismiss anyone's opinion as "complaining" just because it differs from yours. Instead, express your own point of view on the game and let us all see things from a different perspective. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />




Disclaimer: All opinions in this post are those of the author, and therefore outweigh anyone else's. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

LordMalis, I have no prob with people not liking BD - taste, preference, personal game play etc. are clearly subjective. And this is ok - if all had the same taste, a lot of game genres would vanish from the market.

I have problems with this =>
viewing BD by wearing Div spectacles. It was not designed as Div 2.
Gamers trying to wish it into a Div "clone"
expressions such as "if this and this is implemented, I will buy/not buy"

I like BD - as much as I enjoyed the freedom in Div - I enjoy linearity now. As much as I loved the way to develop my char in Div, I enjoy development now - in a totally different, unique way. I don't even use up all skill pts. I was a pretty powerful mage in Div, until I found out, I didn't need that. In BD I enjoy my (physically) very weak archer and help her to survive. I don't use the BF, I don't even need the summoning dolls. I concentrate on quests - they are difficult to solve at times (specially Act 4). the only "trauma" I have, is the earthquake effect.

it's nice to see some effects from Div (charms) - I was totally enhanced by the new alchemy system - the strange creatures. Tibars, lava crawlers, I simply love watching them. I'm so glad, imps play a new role now. And when I think about the Raanaar and their 3 virtues - I even found myself starting to think philosophically. BD may have "less" of what Div gamers were used to - but it has one thing more: depth. Even in sub quests: Good/evil - virtuous/non-virtuous => I really had to think and wreck my brain in finding a solution to suit me, the RL person - and the way I discovered the game plot should be. It's a mature game IMO - not in the sense of "M" rating - but in taking up the philosophy of this strange, sometimes cruel world of Nemisis.
Kiya

My comment was not geared toward you. But there are others that simply dismiss anyone who finds ANY fault with the game, and the funny thing is, some of them have stated they haven't even played the game yet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />



I can't help wearing my "Div spectacles." That said, there were a number of new implementations that I liked, such as clicking where you want your characters to go on the mini-map. I would have bought the game regardless of what was implemented, but I can't help being disappointed about some things. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />



I also concentrate on quests, but the male testosterone in me wants to be the most powerful hero ever to walk any game world! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />



I agree with most of what you said. I was disappointed that the imps didn't speak the same way as in Divinity, I missed the speech impediment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

LordMalis - I bow to you. Now I know what I'm lacking <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> - BTW, I didn't imply your post was "dictatorship". Maybe I should have stressed this more in my post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

Kiya,

Unfortunately it's name and promotional hype mean it's inevitable that it will be compared to DD, and rightly so IMO. Heck even the novella paints it as a direct continuation of the first game. Now if they had called it 'Riftrunner' and somewhere in smaller print put 'A brand new game from the team who brought you Divine Divinity' then the comparision would have been lessened...and I'd probably be less disappointed.

Or to put it another way. Lots of people hate Fallout BOS for a reason <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

I agree, Ben <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> - RR would have maybe been better.

I agree too. I can't see the reasoning behind calling it Beyond Divinity, that was just asking for people to compare games.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> sounded cool too, I really like that name for an RPG. Maybe it's just me though.

Hmmm, I could swear I've seen something on the box...

"Let yourself be absorbed in the Divinity universe...explore your dark side in the follow up to this (e.g. DD) adventure..."

It was also sold as a pack containing DD and BD with the remark "the quest continues".

For Pete's sake, Lets face it people...BD IS DD2!!! You can deny it, but Larian clearly wanted to lift this game on the (unexpected but justified) hype that was DD. Too bad they changed the best elements, which are now being corrected (because of popular demand???) with numerous patches.

Anyway, should you buy this game??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Yes, you should. But not now. Wait for patch 1.999 after which the game will work at an exceptable level or just wait a few months for the price to drop so you get actual value for money (10 euro is fair). If you have the cash and it's hot in your pocket, buy Sacred instead...

I can see you're expecting DD 2. In this case I have to disapoint you. Like I said they stripped the fun things and kept the same (great, but still the same) design. Act 1 is a pain, and the battlefields are dirt-cheap (and extremly buggy) Diablo 2 ripoffs. In the second half of Act 2 things lift up, and after that it becomes more and more of a real game. Still damn linear though...

I know "I don't know how you play" or "Everybody had their own journey to travel" or "yadayadayada" makes sense (open doors people!). But if you expect a game like (or god forbid, better than) DD you WILL be dissapointed...

How many patches for Sacred at the moment ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I had one patch (8 MB) for Sacred and even before that it worked flawless. I had 2 for BD (25 MB each on ISDN, nice!) and it still had some major flaws. Sacred never crashed, never let items lose their value or has dungeons with NO monster. It has problems with some quests, but these are minor and not important to the game in general. In BD I started over once and once in Act 2...NEED I SAY MORE???

PLUS Sacred has a non linear world like DD had, lots of items, lots of merchants and HORSES!!! DD is better, but BD isn't. But that is of course "just a personal opinion". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Have you actually played Sacred or are you just someone who counts the patches? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

It's so hard to talk to fanboyz & girlz (try dissing IDOLS winners on a 14 year old, same effect)... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

I have to raise my eyebrow about that, because I've had Sacred for two weeks, and it's just now barely playable. They're up to a 1.66 patch--that's 6 major patches, and 6 minor ones--and many game features still don't work properly. They've actually just asked players what they want fixed, next.



Just as a word of advice, you'll find it becomes even harder talking to people after you've sneered at them as fanboyz and girlz. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> Personally, I consider both Sacred and <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> pretty damned buggy and badly balanced, though I'm sure both will soon deliver what they promised. I'd be more sympathetic to what you write if you hadn't chosen a product that's been lambasted for bugs even worse than <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> as the epitome of quickly repaired problems.

No i have not played Sacred but i have heard that Sacred has also many bugs and several patches already.
So you can say that i am someone who counts the patches <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

After playing Beyond Divinity i will probably buy Sacred but i am pretty sure to prefer Beyond Divinity because most of the people say that there is a lot of hack and slash in Sacred.
In Beyond Divinity the fights are more difficult and more strategic.

I understand you it's hard to talk to fanboys/fangirls.
I am definitively a fangirl and i wish i am only 14 years old <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Barta

I played Sacred, Zed - nearly the first day it came out (German version), because I liked the demo very much - for about 20 hrs. Then I was bored and uninstalled it => too repetitive and I don't like unlimited monster respawn. Quests were not challenging my brains. Graphics, world and humour was nice though => but this doesn't tie me to a game.

As you see, I play differently. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> (was the Dark Elf in the game and the Seraphim in the demo)

Ahhhhh, and about the horse => I did not want it get hurt, so I thought, I'd clear the map first (wild land) and then solve quests (time limited ones) - only to see a large streak of enemies running after me. Was too aggravating for me on long term. You can say, I can't judge a game after 20 hrs completely => correct. But I can see after 20 hrs, if I wish to carry on or not. If monster respawn had been said clearly (note: German version came out far earlier than the English one), I wouldn't even have bought it. My game play is => clear and be done. Some game magazines claimed proudly to have had the "honour" and convince the Devs to make this => well, they lost a customer in me.

It's all a matter of taste, obviously. I played Sacred for a while but like Kiya got bored. It might have horses but it has no dialogue trees and the quests are completely meaningless - it's simply an action game and not a RPG for my taste. I found it totally bug-ridden - easily worse than BD although the comparison is fairly worthless. I remember when I arrived at my destination for one quest (based on the arrow) it suddenly shot 180 degrees and started moving away. Confused (because nothing was there), I chased the arrow...it turned out to be a rabbit instead of the appropriate enemy. My partner is playing it while I replay BD and she swears at the quest bugs continuously.

At any rate, if want a deeper RPG experience with dialogue and interactivity, Sacred just doesn't have those elements.

I have played up through part of act 3, and I can easily say that the game is good, and if you enjoy rpg's you should by it. The game isn't great, as of yet, I haven't finished the game yet, but it is very good now that the patches have been released. I have had no major problems, like the game crashing or anything. My biggest complaint with the game was the inventory system, but now that that is fixed, I don't have any big complaints. Personally I like the voices, and I like the fact that they gave everyone a voice. I especially like the voice of the billboard. It is classic Larian. And while the game is too difficult during the first act if you play on tactical or higher, once you get to the second act and beyond the fighting is managable. The gameplay is very similar to Divinity, so if you liked it you will like Beyond Divinity's game play. The skill system is nothing special, they could have left it the same, but I think it is slightly better, and I am glad they experimented with it. With a few tweaks it could be really good for Divinity 2. I think the coolest addition to this game, from the original are the spells. The spells look tremendous, and there a such a wide variety to cast. It was also a good addition to up the intelligence of the various monsters. They work together, and many different techniques are needed to defeat them. That makes the game harder, but in my opinion better. Right now by biggest gripe with the game is that most all of the quests are straight forward kill some monsters and bring back an item. I was under the impression from reading previews, that there would be many more puzzles to solve in the game compared to Divinity, and maybe there still will be and I just haven't gotten to them yet.

Overall I would say definetly buy the game. I think many of the people who are complaining had unrealistic expectations of the game, and are remembering DD as better than it really was. The fisrt act of DD was very linear, hack and slash, not all that fun and really long, just like the first act in BD, but once you get past that the game is really good. So go buy it already.

Zed, I have Sacred and played it for a short while before I received BD. In another post you were practically knocking the fact that BD is a Diablo 2 knock-off. Well, what do you call Sacred? Original? ROFL

Anyway, you're lucky to have had flawless gameplay with Sacred. Many gamers haven't had such a fortunate experience. The Sacred developers [Encore?? I think] have, indeed, created 6 new patches and are working on another one (if I remember correctly). I had a lot of trouble with the game and one bug that I absolutely adored (worked out better for the player) got fixed, so that kinda took the fun out of it in a way. Nevertheless, I'm not that enamored with hack 'n slash games and that's pretty much all Sacred is. (It's Diablo 2 on sparkles. *g*) It's impossible to clear out any battlefield sections because the respawn rate is astronomical. But for those people who enjoy that type of play, Sacred is definitely their game.

It's hard to compare one game to another because invariably there is something unique to each game. They may appear to be "Diabloesque" tone to BD but that's true for a lot of other major games that are on the market. It's abundantly clear that DD was your favorite thus far (between the two games). I'm having fun with BD as are a lot of others here on this board. So don't knock us 'cuz we like the game. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> (LOL)


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" /> *who doesn't even remember what 14 was like* <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Ah, Sacred...

Not to slaughter anyone's sacred's bull, I think Sacred is just a step higher from the Diablo evolution chart. There's no point in comparing Sacred with Beyond Divinity, 'cos there are two different types of games? Sacred, a RPG? I don't know, that's like calling Diablo a RPG and that kind-of open up a can of worms.

1) Sacred has no conversation trees. The game don't need any, for it is just pure hack and slash. BD gives you choices to make, hence the need for a conversation tree.

2) Quests. Quests in Sacred are much simpler when compared to BD.

3) Crashes, bugs and fixes. Good Lord, don't you know Sacred is already at 1.66? And 1.7 is coming out soon? Diablo II takes 5 years to reach 1.10 and BD now is only at 1.4...

4) Non-linear world. Yeah, an open-room dungeon. What's the point? Is there any significane in doing the Abducted quest before the Eye of the Wolves?

You put it into very clear words, Rana <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />
I think this:
As Diablo revolutioned (or destroyed) the classical meaning of how an RPG is meant to be - gamers liking this action way, think a "good" RPG has to be similar (kill, loot, collect) - and Sacred is one of these. And each of these so-called RPG are a brick to the tombstone burying classical RPG.

In order to convince the thread starter, I therefore wrote a questional post. So, if she/he is an Diablo gamer, he might not like BD.

My personal definition of an RPG (coming from the pen&paper faction) =>
a world, consistent in itself - where I can explore and delve into it to understand its rules, atmosphere, psychograms of the races there - and the humour I love about Larian games.

Quests bringing me into moral twists - making me think, cuss and swear.

Dialogues, telling me more about this world, so I wish to become a part of it.

Interaction with the items of this world (e.g. plants, charms, quest combos etc.)- gathering clues by deciphering these rune manuscripts e.g.

BD has this IMO and - no class restriction thankfully (bothered me most in AD&D games - therefore a specified skill system. Yes, I can't use all, I have to decide - but I think this is logical for Nemisis and the role my char plays in it: disciple (pupil) trying to survive in a world with changing, powerful enemies - so I have to modify my strategy or die. And find a way home, of course.
Kiya

About bugs => Div had them, too in the beginning and some still exist. I can only talk for myself - they did not keep me from playing BD. And I'm looking forward to more improvement. What I would find disappointing though - if survival in Nemisis would turn into a cake walk. I think, this would destroy the atmosphere - just my personal opinion. And I don't think 10 $ would do this game justice, as one gamer mentioned.