Larian Studios Forums General Chat Thinly veiled political statement in BD?

We can all bitch about problems like, I'mn fat!

but its people's own fault they don't exerice or eat right.
same with lung cancer. most of it (over 50%) is caused by smoking. no, its not cool. unless swallowing tar and all sorts of [nocando] is cool.

animal rights? of course they have rights! they're alive aren't they? you cant just say because they dont communicate to humans they have no rights! I mean, I'll eat an amial, but thats for food. for testing out stuff they can do in other ways is jus stupid! as soon as there is a REAL subsitute for animal meat that tastes decent, Ill be getting it.


sorry, I was a bit late on the origanal topic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Kiya? oh, she's just that old hag currently cursing me hell spikes 5 for stealing her library books. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

That's an interesting point, Lews. What about animals farmed for food? I'm curious as to what those against animal testing feel about this?

I actually think (IMO personally) that animal farming is sort of sick. they put in food coloring into fish to make it red there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" /> thats just cruelty, breeding them specifically for food in cages. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

@oh and BTW, I have nothing wrong w/ smokers. its just that one side of my family has been hit very bad by lung cancer and has shown the rest of my family its not a good idea. so everyone except 1 person of about 10 who origanally smoked have quit. or died. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

My dad never smoked, never drank, never swore, gave blood and plasma as often as the blood centers would let him, loved our family and took us to parks and played catch and wrestled playfully with my siblings and I. He jogged a couple miles every day and maintained a healthy diet (mostly because of my mom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />). He was quite simply my idol. To me, he was the pentacle of virtue. The nicest man you could ever meet, would do anything for you. He was a volunteer firefighter for 11 years and finally quit because my mom said he wasn't home enough.

He died two years ago of Luekemia, or rather, complications from a bone marrow transplant that was hopefully going to cure him, at the ripe old age of 46. To imply that its people's own fault that they get cancer is absurd and quite frankly offensive to me. Sure, in some cases, its true, but those are by far the minority of cases.



First off, I like animals more than people. But, do animals have rights? Who says they do? You? Does a cat keep a mouse's rights in mind as it playfully bats at it before it kills and drops it at your doorstep as a present for you? What about plants? Don't they have rights? They live, they propagate. Or is it because they can't move and in most cases can't defend themselves that excludes them from having a "right" to life.

Nature is what it is. We humans are omnivorous. We are built to eat and digest both plant and animal matter. I will gladly eat a bloody steak and will not shed a single tear for the cow that gave its life so I might dine on its flesh. Nor will I shed a tear for the head of lettuce that was pulled up from the ground to provide my pre-dinner salad.

Trying to go against our nature is silly. We are what we are, no less, no more. The simple fact is that we are the dominant species on the planet. We build, we destroy. We are at times the aggressor, at times the defender. From the very first tribes fighting over hunting territory and women, to the world as it is today, fighting for the resources to power our industrial machines. We are predators, every one.

Animal testing? Bring it on. I, for one, certainly value the lives of myself and loved ones over ANY OTHER animal. Simple as that!

Edit: These are just my opinions, they change sometimes based on the knowledge at hand. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

@ handefood -> i'm sure they are eating beef/chicken/ham/ostrich/rabbit/fish/prawn/shrimp/lobster/llama as we speak. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

to sloggalate, thanks for sharing with us your views though i'm not sure myself about my standing (pro-animal testing or con-animal testing). i think u have thoughts so deep that u've perceived something that maybe even larians don't realise & that's a view on animal testing.

heck, i have no idea <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> is such a thought provoking game! never mind the fact that it's emotion provoking game as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

i'm very sorry about your mom suffering for so long with cancer & i'm glad your son's alive & healthy & especially being the light of your life. wow! there are quite a number of parents playing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> indeed larians games are M-rated.

@ kiya -> u're no bitch, but u're bitchin'! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> meaning, u rock! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I cant see how anyone can think eating an animal is better than animal testing. I mean, you are killing a creature and eating its dead body? How is this better? Dead is dead isnt it? Saying any different is just a way of justifying why you think its ok to chow down a burger and not feel guilty, but think that animal testing is oh so terrible <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I dont know what I think about animal testing. Its not like it is deliberate cruelty with no other purpose than to cause another creature to suffer. Its done with the goal of helping fight human suffering, and I guess Id rather a rat died to find a cure, than a human die because there wasnt one. I dont like the idea of testing cosmetics and stuff on animals. They arent really essential and I dont think animals should have to suffer for the sake of human vanity. But for medicinal research I guess its better them than us.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />

there he goes, ladies & gentlemen. mandrake, the first citizen from the animal kingdom to volunteer for testing. anyway, he's not afraid as humans don't use cats for testing. just mice & rats. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Now this is an illusion - cats, dogs, apes, pigs -all, and more are used for testing!

Of course I volunteered for testing. How do you think it is that I can talk?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />

Glance - agreed. I think even more of them are tested including dolphins, sharks frogs etc. It really depends on purpose of tests.

Killing for eating and killing by testing. I see there is difference. Tested one often suffers pain for some periods of time, right?

I don't say killing for eating is much much better. I used to know one person working at meat factory. He told, cows always felt they are going to die. He told they started terribly scream almost a day before it. Factory is closed for a long time, but I always feel terrible when I drive pass it.

Sloggalate. And even if there was some political content in the game even intentionally put by Larians. I don't see a reason for prohibiting them to do so. We live in a democracy. Why author can't express his opinion on this or that matter?

And this topic itself is very controversial. Humans don't have any alternative to testing yet. Why, they decide to do that on animals? Yes, superiority is in mind. Then I have a question, why are we better? and How are we better?

There is old induist mantra - Is dog a Buddha? It is beleived that those who learn to understand this question, learn the ultimate truth about Universe.

Let, humans clone themself and use clones on testing grounds. Leave animals alone!

(Egin hides behind rock.)

Mandrake. hmm this also explains, why you have two tails. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The whole world is on fire and we nag about political statements in a RPG game? (Which is by default a violent genre)??

As far as I am concerned I like to play games which have depth and substance. And I think that every developer, every artist and every person generally in the world have the right to add some personal statements (even if it is political) in their creations. This consists the basis for reasonable arguments/conversations between people with different opinions.

Animal rights? Torturing an animal in a lab is far away than killing some of them in order to get food. I mean either you be a vegetarian (which is a choice I respect very much) or you kill only for food and nothing more. It is very sad to see animals tortured because some ladies want to wear a safe lipstick or powder. It is a different thing. Killing for food is a natural rule if I may say so. From the primitive years of the world people were killing animals for food and clothes. But this is the most of I can bare as far as animals are concerned. And of course I am totally oposite in killing animals even for food when it comes to rare species.

In any case thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I just think that we sould protest about many things that happen in this world and each one of us has his/her own way to do that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Edit : @ LordMalis I am so sorry you lost your dad so young. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" /> I hope that he will live in you forever.

Luc just summed up my whole post I was going to reply. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> sorry to hear it LordMalis <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

I didn't post for sympathy, but thank you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I just wanted to point out that you can be stricken by disease at any time, no matter your age or lifestyle. As far as animal testing, only for medical purposes. Frivolous things like cosmetics testing is ridiculous. And, BTW, I really don't think Larian was making a political statement, it was all meant in humor.

@ LordMalis
It is not sympathy or pitty my Lord. And I got your point and agree. It shows after all in my post. It is just that I hate it when someone shares something personal, even if it is to give us an example, and we go on our conversation like nothing just happened. I admired your words about your father for reasons that I don't want to explain. Please do not take my words as just kind sympathy cause I never do it. If my words though were unpleasant to you I apologize <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I thought about replying to this post for a while. Not quite sure what to say though. Lordmalis, my deepest sympathies. Do you get regular medicals? Keep an eye out for signs of cancer. Its genetic. Fortunately I've only had one case in my family. That was an aunt that smoked too much.
Being a smoker myself I am aware of the dangers, I can live with that because I enjoy doing it and we all have to die sometime.

Anyway, animal testing is a subject I know a bit about. I work 'upstream' of the animal testing in my job though. The compounds I make are injected into rats and mice usually. Do I feel bad about it? Not really, if testing was done on hairy spiders I'm sure a lot less people would complain. (Right Faile? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)
Unfortunately insect metabolism is very different.
I try to avoid cosmetic products tested on animals. I use at the moment a shower gel not tested on animals and a shampoo that is. My wife bought the shampoo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Testing on skin cell lines is now possible I believe but expensive. Most cosmetics manufacturers will avoid it until they have to use it. Or until its made law. Monkeys may fly out of my bum first though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

Rightyo, time to get myself flamed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

While I wont go as far as Lews to say that some people deserve cancer, let me give you a hypothetical question. We have two cases; a mid thirties man who has smoked since he was 15 has lung cancer and 12 year old girl with luekemia. They are both priority if they want to be saved. Who should get treatment first?

Ok so we dont have as much sympathy for the non smoker, same condition but a 40 year old man. Who first, ones going to die here remember. Do we save the smoker who smoked 25 years thinking "I got to die sometime" or the 40 year old luekemia sufferer who lived a faultless life style.

Just some food for thought <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

And dont worry Womble. I actually really like you. So Id hate to let you die <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />

EEEkkk, I'm sorry Lucretia, I did mean to imply anything. Its just that almost everyone has had some kind of personal tragedy befall them, there's nothing special about mine except to me. I appreciate your words and everyone else's and didn't mean to cheapen them or anything. Sorry! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

we all have to die sometime.
----

and before anyone starts lets not get into. theres always the next one. those conversations always lead to insults flying. okease.




Mandrake, I can go even farther then saying those who smoke deserve lung cancer (and I just say its coming to you if you smoke). and smokign gets your teeth all yucky.

but then. If I had my way. we'd all be vampires. biteing necks for food. or just canabilism. hey, its better then the alternative.


you may now start throwing rocks...

Those who smoke deserve a lot more than lung cancer. I'm thinking a long eternity someplace that's always warm and the grill is always on... and I don't mean Applebees.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I just want to say how pleased I am that such a potentially explosive comversation has gone on so long without anyone getting angry, abusive or insulting, despite differing and conflicting views. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />