Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) Starforce - Good protection?

Ok, one last attempt:



Obeying the law isn't something publishers should do when they feel like it. This is a law we're talking about here, not school yard rule.



Really, they don't think a game will make more money with a protection, than without? Hmmm, that begs the question, if the protection isn't designed to effect sales, what's it doing on the disc in the first place?

Microsoft are in court every other week, for Monopolising the software market. Their software isn't disc protected (and at the mercy of illegal users) so how do they make more money than god? They're the biggest producers of software on the planet, and they don't feel it necessary to use disc protections. When you can show me another comapny that makes as much money as them, and has a disc protection to thank for it, I'll say "I love disc protections" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

First of all, I was just giving an example. This wasn't meant to be taken literally. However, if your house gets torched or flooded, I don't suppose you'll be too worried about a few games <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The bottom line is this: I don't care how they do it. It's isn't my job to do their job. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

Geez <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The profit you're talking about is the profit they legally have the right to already. That is obviously not what I meant, and you know it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> If people really only copied disks as backups for themselves, it in fact means that those copy protections wouldn't have an effect on their profits. "they don't think a game will make more money with a protection, than without?" Yes they do, money that is rightfully theirs to begin with.


I very much doubt that disc protections or any kind of protections are even relevant when talking about Microsoft's profits. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

How do they get their software to the intended audience without disc protection? How come everyone else needs disc prot' and they don't. You have to wonder about this.

If it was up to me, I would get all the publishers and put them in a big bag, and give it a good shaking!

So we all have to be punished along with the pirates (not that disc prot' represent a problem to them)? That's hardly fair, is it. That's like nuking a country to eliminate a pocket of resistance there. You will always have copies floating about, this will never stop, as no protection can be made to achieve total control. The more complex the protection, the more resources it will use, the more monitoring it will perform, and the more money it will cost the developers to use it. I wonder how much it cost Larian for starforce???

All the businesses of the world are not using 'beyond divinity' or any other game to run their computers. They're using Windows.

A computer company faces serious problems if caught, and they can be caught quite easily, if they use unlicensed op systems.

That's why MS aren't poor...and they are effected by piracy of course...but it's only a small dint in their financial armour. They own the business computer market.

Smaller companys (like small game developers) aren't so financially secure as Microsoft that the loss of sales from a unprotected CD does no seeable damage.

That simply isn't true. UNIX has made an absolute fortune, not to mention that a lot of small businesses can't afford the licences for Windows NT server, and all the work stations.



Neither is this. Many companies have been prosicuted for using illegal software, but many are still out there, using it. The OS is only part of the software used by companies, and home users account for more sales of Windows I would suspect.



Whether they can afford to lose money or not isn't the point. Microsoft, like any company, stives to attain maximum profits. Absolutely, under no circumstances, would Microsoft say "We can afford to lose this amount" lets no bother doing anything about it.



Who is as financially secure as Microsoft? And besides, even if these smaller companies made as much, they would still issue protections on the disc. Let's not forget that microsoft have a wide range of products either. These "small" developers aren't as poor as you think. If you can produce a game of sufficient quality, you can make tonnes of money. Take Half-Life 2 for example, this has been leaked out, it will get cracked (no doubt) and copied, but I bet it makes £££££££ for the developers!

You seem to like taking the barest point and twisting it for yourself.

I said 'They're using Windows.'

You said -'That simply isn't true. UNIX has made an absolute fortune, not to mention that a lot of small businesses can't afford the licences for Windows NT server, and all the work stations.'

What do I care...you were talking about mircosoft, not unix. While you're at it why not start listing every software product that was ever made and made money to try and make your point! I don't have 3 hours to spend typing a reply that involves all your perceived contingencies.

I said 'A computer company faces serious problems if caught, and they can be caught quite easily, if they use unlicensed op systems.'

You said 'Neither is this. Many companies have been prosicuted for using illegal software, but many are still out there, using it. The OS is only part of the software used by companies, and home users account for more sales of Windows I would suspect.'

Of course there's still many out there doing it...I even worked for one! But that's not what I said. And they can be easily caught if just one auditor arrives on their door! And your suspected "home users account for more sales of Windows I would suspect" is a completely rubbish statement as you are still referring to the sale of the op system which gives MS the money to soar above all others.

I said 'That's why MS aren't poor...and they are effected by piracy of course...but it's only a small dint in their financial armour. They own the business computer market.'

You said 'Whether they can afford to lose money or not isn't the point. Microsoft, like any company, stives to attain maximum profits. Absolutely, under no circumstances, would Microsoft say "We can afford to lose this amount" lets no bother doing anything about it.'

Again, this is completely twisting things...did I once say that MS didn't care about losing sales in my statement? No. Only that they aren't going to fold because of it.

Last comments...using your example of half-life 2 I agree that it will be cracked, copied, and there'll be a loss of sale for the company, though they'll make a fortune regardless.

Although if MS made the game and didn't copy protect it, it probably wouldn't make as much as there'd be more pirated versions. So what's the difference here?

Vivendi spend years making what will be their new flag ship product, probably one of a tiny few products they'll release in the year. They really SHOULD protect it as much as possible. I know I would, and people like you moaning about their disc protection would be ignored...why - because capitalist company's will generally do whatever the hell it takes to make more money . But MS have other ways than protecting their disks...


I applaud MS for not protecting the discs so I can make backups for my important stuff (windows cd for example) but they are bastards in a 100 other ways without putting protections on disc to keep sales up. Once again...they own the market. If you couldn't backup the cds every computer business in the world will cry out as they need to back up that software, and that will make a difference. If a game has protection...who's going to cry out!? You!? The pirates!? What the hell would they care...protecting your business should be a right, not a law.

You're right. This is getting deep and complex, and the posts are getting longer.

Let's just say it's ok for some people to break the law. The ones who use disc protections, and the ones who break them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

"A lone warrior clad in a plate armour, with a St-George pattern on his cape and a 2 handed sword of justice in his firm hands is climbing on the mountains. He will fight for honour, truth and law, agains the opression, slavery, undead and other nastiness like copy protection scemes. His name is xAcesx".
Just teasing you, mate. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Someone needs to take a stand against it. What's the next stage in protections? Someone from larian (or wherever) coming round my house and going through my disc collection? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Actually, the federal police went through one of my school-mates house's and took all of his computer equipment because of piracy.

Hey! Policemen are people too, they want to play games as much as your friend.

(Sketch for 3)

- Police HQ, 3 a.m. -
*Officer Jack is sitting at a recently aquired computer. Officer Bill walks in.*

Bill:*doesn't see the screen* Hey, Jack, what are you doing? It's 3 a.m.
Jack: *dashing his hands on the keyboard* Ack... damn... NOO!!! Bill! Leave me alone!
Bill: Uh... Jack? What are you doing? *approaches*
Jack: Ehh! I am just... checking this computer for pirated games... evidence, you know?
Bill: *Austerely* Jack. I know what you are doing. You are playing warez! There's only one option left to me, as a honest officer, I should... *takes a chair* soo... what are you playing at the moment? Can I watch?

- Police HQ 6:21 a.m. -
*Captain Steven walks in*

Steven: Bill?! Jack?! What in god's name are you doing?
Bill: Ermmm...
Jack: Uhh...
Steven: Ooh! Unreal Tournament 2004! Let's play!

- The End -

Hmmm... The police don't deal with piracy over here, it's the "Trading Standards". And it's often quite difficult to prosecute for piracy, as it can be difficult to prove.

As I understand it, if the police find anything copy-wise, they phone the "TS" boys and they sort it out. But they don't bother unless they can make a court thing out of it.

Good one, DATD! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

They do need something to go off over here. They can't make random checks. They traced him through a larger pirate network.

Well had he been stealing things?

He had access to the pirate network. He had downloaded stuff but only for personal use. He was only a receiver, not a supplier. I don't know what penalty he got, but he didn't end up in jail. I think his mate in Sydney did.

If in my country police suddenly catched everyone who uses pirated software, a good part of our country would be in jail! Probably the best way to avoid it is to use Unix-based software (yeah, GNU public license is absolutely f... /sorry/ great)

Laws, etics, moral - everything must take its time and place. Who thinks of any rules or whatever when he goes to war to defend his country or he has to fight for his life in the street? Laws are made to protect us, but not to take us over! Everyone who places a protection somewhere knows that it is to be attacked. It is natural. Still, it works the other way round - every developer needs money to run his own business without beeing dependent. That's also natural. Who will give him money if he does'n take it himself? Donations are little help.

So, what is the conclusion? I think noone and everyone is right. The situation itself is wrong. StarForce is bad and cracks are bad. What to do then? Change the conception. But how? I don't know. But as for the current situation - there is no way out but to make your choice. As I said before, flaming is fun, but little use. If you want something to be done, then do it yourself, 'cause noone is gooing to do it for you.

Well, a bit tired of all this philosophical stuff. Hope my head is not going to explode.. to soon.

Over here in the UK, the police don't deal with it; it's dealt with by Trading Standards.

The guy with access to a pirate network wouldn't have got jailed over here either. They'd just take all his stuff and shred it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />. They're noit really bothered about crap like that, they wan't the people who are SELLING or TRADING in pirate software.

The guy with access to that network isn't hurting companies, let's face it, he isn't going to buy $15,000 worth of software (or whatever amount he had). It's the ones who profit from it that hurt the Dev/Pub and I'm sure that Starforce isn't a problem, as the paying public will put a stop to that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

full story at Boing Boing

in short

dev of Galactic Civilizations 2: We don't want starfoce since it would mean extra costs trying to help each player that has difficulties.

*Sales numbers come in and they are good (number 1 in the UK charts.)

Starforce: Why those ba$tards they don't use our must need protection against pirates.
*Starforce posts some torrents links ON IT'S FORUM so that pirates can download it*

dev of Galactic Civilizations 2: YOU CANT'T DO THAT

Starforce: *removes the link*



These are mobster.
Starforce need to die quickly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

Edit: some news links

Starforce takes revenge on Galactic Civilizations II
StarForce makes PC gaming hard... and it kills kittens