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member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2004
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Chuch and another friend have noticed that for a little gain of Armor, let's say from 14 to 17 one looses Initiative 8 to 7, Accuracy 12 to 10, and in this example Damage 48 to 85 down to 37 to 62! The question is is that Shield doing me any good at all until I find one that for a much greater increase in Armor does far less decreases in the other stats? If and when I go to a two-handed weapon of course then Shields are out anyway.
On the other side of the coin, if my thoughts on Shields above is valid, what would be the character-build situation where a good Shield would be important?
Thanks.
Last edited by Chuck; 12/06/04 05:38 PM.
Chuck
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
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The decrease in accuracy and inivtiative is normal, all piecez that adds armor decreases some of your stats. But to understand de decrease in damage you have to know something: They are three particulare melee skills: One-handed Twho-handed With-shield I take it you put points in One-handed. So the points you put in that skills are active if you wear a weapon in one hand... WITHOUT shield. If you want to carry a weapon AND a shield, you have to put points in the With-shield skills. If you wear a shield when having points in One-handed skill, you will lose all benefit of that skill. They are also some One-handed Weapons that completely blacks out the shield slot in you inventory, so it becomes impossible to wear a shield. Many players made that mistake in the beginning <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.
''La religion est a l'esprit ce que les Nazis étaient au juifs''
''Oh God, er is geen God''
''If I would be God, I would give my resignation, so people could stop fighting in my name''
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
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They are also some One-handed Weapons that completely blacks out the shield slot in you inventory, so it becomes impossible to wear a shield Um no, there aren't. In fact the only way of finding out whether or not a weapon is 1H or 2H is to equip it and see if it blacks out your shield spot. And I didn't find a shield all that useless. I played a game with my hero slashing with shield and my DK slashing 2H, and I found my hero the better of the two. Naturally, it depends a great deal on the weapons you find (the best 1H weapon I found was actually better than the best 2H weapon I found), but still, being able to block about 80% of the attacks isn't bad... (although I believe blocking was nerfed since then). I just had all of the enemies attack my shield guy, so the other could just take a swing at them without any personal danger.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
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They are also some One-handed Weapons that completely blacks out the shield slot in you inventory, so it becomes impossible to wear a shield Um no, there aren't. In fact the only way of finding out whether or not a weapon is 1H or 2H is to equip it and see if it blacks out your shield spot. And I didn't find a shield all that useless. I played a game with my hero slashing with shield and my DK slashing 2H, and I found my hero the better of the two. Naturally, it depends a great deal on the weapons you find (the best 1H weapon I found was actually better than the best 2H weapon I found), but still, being able to block about 80% of the attacks isn't bad... (although I believe blocking was nerfed since then). I just had all of the enemies attack my shield guy, so the other could just take a swing at them without any personal danger. When retrieving the book for the Merchant in Act 1 in the Drill Ground level, he gives you a sword, ''Deathknight's Claw''. It's a One-handed weapon ( obviously, because he wears it with one hand ) and when you equip it, it blacks out the shield slot. Their was also a drop from Fergus, called ''Imp's hammer of storms'' ( or something like that ). It's a one-handed hammer that also blacks out the shield slot. These are the PURE one-handed weapons. It would be good if Larian added ''Two-handed'', ''One-handed only'' and ''One-handed with shield'' in the weapons description.
''La religion est a l'esprit ce que les Nazis étaient au juifs''
''Oh God, er is geen God''
''If I would be God, I would give my resignation, so people could stop fighting in my name''
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member
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member
Joined: May 2004
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the deathknight´s claw is a two hand weapon!
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
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the deathknight´s claw is a two hand weapon! Whaaaaaa?! So that Imp's hammer of storms is also two handed?! Damn... My bad then... I could've swear it was a one-handed weapon... well he wear it with one-hand and not with two hands so... Ok, whatever, just forget about the post I posted above.
''La religion est a l'esprit ce que les Nazis étaient au juifs''
''Oh God, er is geen God''
''If I would be God, I would give my resignation, so people could stop fighting in my name''
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: May 2004
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maybe a stupid question but what's the use of the one-handed skil? Why use just the sword and no schield if you're able to use both? And how do you get the monsters to attack the schield/luck hero? My hero is booosted with luck and has a schield with a awsome handaxe but every one keeps bugging my knight <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" /> xd
"I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests."
"Somethimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin & hobbes
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
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My hero is booosted with luck and has a schield with a awsome handaxe but every one keeps bugging my knight
The monsters attack: - if they come hopping in from out of sight: the one that's nearest to them (just the one they see first) - (I'm not 100% sure, but rather sure) if they're part of a "monster group" (group close together) they all start an attack the same char - except when monster A is attacking char1, when char1 is NOT attacking monster A (for example it is attacking monster B or just standing there) and char2 IS attacking monster A, then monster A will start to attack char 2 So, just make sure the guy with the shield is in front of the other one, and the monsters will attack him first. With though monsters, make sure both chars are attacking the same monster. (the not-so-though monsters shouldn't give the other char that much trouble anyway).
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
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Well now that my dream about pure one-handed weapons has sunk into the void of space, I'm starting to doubt the usefulness of the one-handed skill.
Well if you wear a shield you lose some accuracy and initiative ( maybe speed also... I forgot... ), so your chance to hit are decreased, and your chance to hit first also ( right? ).
But you win some armor, and you can block blows... and you have an additional equipement piece where you can put charms.
If you only use a one-handed weapon, you keep your accuracy and initiative ( without shield ), but you do not win additional charms slots, armor, and you can't stop blows.
About the mobs that keeps bugging your death knights, I didn't find a way to taunt the mobs succesfully...
Maybe it's because the mobs saw your Death Knights first and attacked him on sight. So you just make him run, let the hero take a couple of blows on the mobs, until the mobs focus on your hero. Works pretty well, but a bit annoying in dungeons...
Can't find any other way...
''La religion est a l'esprit ce que les Nazis étaient au juifs''
''Oh God, er is geen God''
''If I would be God, I would give my resignation, so people could stop fighting in my name''
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
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ghaleor if it helps, i personally think the one hand skill with shield is by far the more advantageous. things may change as i progress further into the game, but at the end of act III i've found a number of one hand swords that natively do 67-147 or 149 pts. damage. i also have one that does 77-168 damage. when sharpened (to level 9), the best of these sits at 154-269 damage. the best 2 handers i have are natively 107-242 damage and when sharpened 184-344. to my way of thinking, for giving up a (minimal) 30-76 pts damage, i GAIN better armor class, better blocking and 4 charm slots. look for shields that actually ADD speed, accuracy and initiative...or at least don't detract a lot. keep in mind that these numbers are percentages. if you have a shield with 4 charm slots, by putting in just one zand charm you will actually INCREASE those attributes. thus more than making up for any detraction from wearing the item. and you still have 3 slots left! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" /> (and if you used those for strength you'd gain another 9 pts damage, decreasing the 2hand difference even more) no, for me single-handed with shield far outweighs the minimal gain on the damage side of the ledger for the 2hand. keep thinking the way you are! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2004
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ghaleor if it helps, i personally think the one hand skill with shield is by far the more advantageous. things may change as i progress further into the game, but at the end of act III i've found a number of one hand swords that natively do 67-147 or 149 pts. damage. i also have one that does 77-168 damage. when sharpened (to level 9), the best of these sits at 154-269 damage. the best 2 handers i have are natively 107-242 damage and when sharpened 184-344. to my way of thinking, for giving up a (minimal) 30-76 pts damage, i GAIN better armor class, better blocking and 4 charm slots. look for shields that actually ADD speed, accuracy and initiative...or at least don't detract a lot. keep in mind that these numbers are percentages. if you have a shield with 4 charm slots, by putting in just one zand charm you will actually INCREASE those attributes. thus more than making up for any detraction from wearing the item. and you still have 3 slots left! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" /> (and if you used those for strength you'd gain another 9 pts damage, decreasing the 2hand difference even more) no, for me single-handed with shield far outweighs the minimal gain on the damage side of the ledger for the 2hand. keep thinking the way you are! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> In fact I thought the two weapons I mentioned above were one-handed ONLY, but now that my mistake was corrected, the one-handed skill has loosed a bit of importance in my eyes. However, it would be a good thing if pure one-handed weapons would actually exists in the game in my opinion... that would make some usefulness to that skill ^^. Don't worry, I always have a shield with me. My Two-handed swor/axe wearing Death Knight and my little Spear-and-shield wielding Hero ( got to LUVE the skin ) are doing just fine... But I think we should not start discussing the usefulness of one-handed/with-shield skill again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />. I think the initial question has been answered... right?
''La religion est a l'esprit ce que les Nazis étaient au juifs''
''Oh God, er is geen God''
''If I would be God, I would give my resignation, so people could stop fighting in my name''
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jun 2004
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My warrior hero also uses a 1H sword with shield, while my DK is a archer. To get enemies to attack my Hero, I tend to encumber my DK so that he walks slower, and is further away from me when I initially engage the enemy. My DK is then able to shoot arrows that inflict serious damage(200-300+), and avoid most area effect spells. Meanwhile, my hero's high ac, shield, and shield block skills allow him to fight several enemies at once without taking too much damage. So far, it's worked great for the 1st 3 acts, and I haven't had any problems in act 4 yet. As with anything, there's pros and cons to every fighting style. To each their own.
"There's a great many people in this world, who through no fault of their own are sane." However, I am not one of them!.......Tomcat
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
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But I think we should not start discussing the usefulness of one-handed/with-shield skill again .
I think the initial question has been answered... right? hmmmm. well, i suppose...but i was trying to point out that this Well if you wear a shield you lose some accuracy and initiative ( maybe speed also... I forgot... ), so your chance to hit are decreased, and your chance to hit first also ( right? ). is not necessarily quite correct.
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member
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2004
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I think the initial question has been answered... right? Maybe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> I'm still putting skill points on melee one-hand. I notice with my Claymore Deathknight Claw--Unique that although the shield slot is blacked out you can keep a shield there. The shield does nothing of course. Purhaps this is what initially confussed me? I'm going to just leave things alone until the hero and deathknight start hurting and then we'll figure out something different to do.
Last edited by Chuck; 13/06/04 08:48 PM.
Chuck
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
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chuck, i'd seriously consider putting points into EITHER 2hand or 1hand w/shield (and selling the singlehand skill and re-distributing them). singlehand withOUT shield truly gives you nothing except less dmage than can be gotten with a 2hand. and of course, the sword you're currently using is actually SUFFERING because of your chosen path... but the important thing is, you're enjoying! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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