Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) Suggestions Frustration with endgame - spoilers

I never actually got to the end of the game. Oh, I got to the battle with Damian: it was a total stalemate. 100% stalemated. He couldn't kill me and I couldnit hit him. I learned what a total, utter waste of time it was to make my hero a strong archer, because she just wouldn't SHOOT. After spending about three hours going back and forth and reloading from just before the battle and trying it again, I gave up. It was totally stalemated and there was nothing I could do about it. I watched the "outro" movie in the game files and then uninstalled it (though I'm sure I'll reinstall it again someday, because I'm like that) because I needed the HD space.

All the way through the game I'd been telling myself that it was sure to get better, that it was really building towards something. Then Samuel showed up, and I fought him for twenty minutes, and didn't even get any XP out of it. That was a big fat "whatever." Then the stalemated battle with Damian. Then, after all that, I went and looked at a walkthrough.

Despite my meticulous "uncover every map" method of gameplay, I was staggered how many quests I'd never triggered along the way through the four acts. I was frustrated that it was so easy to trigger the Act-changing quest without even knowing about it. Had I finished another half-dozen quests, or known to make my hero the melee fighter instead of my DK, I might not have been stuck at the end.

I think it's bad design when you can (a) miss that many quests and (b) stalemate the endgame. Even though in DivDiv's wide open map it would theoretically be much easier to miss a quest, I only ever learned of three that I didn't find on my first playthrough.

Maybe I'm the only one who came through the whole game hoping for more and ultimately feeling let down but, well, there you have it. I know everyone at Larian tried hard, and I'm not really angry or bitter or anything, just... disappointed. I loved DivDiv so very much last summer that I once played it for seventeen hours without noticing (though I did take meal and bathroom breaks). I was so very excited to follow this project, as it went from the announcement of "Riftrunner" to the "Beyond Divinity" we finally got... maybe there was no game possible that could have lived up to my heightened sense of anticipation. But stalemating the endgame was the final straw. Someday (after I can scrape up the cash for a second hard drive) I'm sure I'll reinstall it, and I'll use a walkthrough to make sure I find everything that's there. But, you know, I can't help but feel that's not how it should be.

I still hold out high hopes for Divinity 2. Just... slightly wiser ones.

Etoile, I defeated Damian as an archer. With poison arrows, poison proficiency and sneak.

http://www.kiya1.de/beyond/act4screens/Finalarrow8.jpg

Sorry to hear that you had such a miserable finish to the game Etoile. You have my sympathy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

If you do decide to do it again, my tip would be to put a few points into giving your hero the hammer spell. It has the great advantage of stunning the enemy as well as doing some damage. You don't need to use many points to add a little bit of magic capability, so you don't need to sacrifice whatever your main fighting style is. I ended with a heap of unspent points for both skills and attributes.

I also finished the game this morning, and I must say that the usual feeling of sadness when a game comes to an end was replaced by one of great relief at finishing BD! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

I seem to have struck just about every bug and mistake in the game and have had to replay hours of pretty dull action in order to skirt round various problems.

If it hadn't been for DD (which I enjoyed as much as you did) I'd probably just write this off as just another B class game that I wasted my money on (and there have been plenty of those over the years! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)

But I know what Larian can do at their best, and I did enjoy most of Acts 2 and 3. Unfortunately, Act 1 was forgettable, as was most of Act 4. Act 4 would have been much better if some of the puzzles were either new or fun. Goodness knows why they think all that lever rubbish constitutes entertainment. The logic ones such as Imp/Chest/Elemental and the Truth-telling and Lying Elementals might have been fun if I hadn't seen exactly the same puzzles many times before. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

I was hoping that BD would stand for Brilliant and Delightful. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, at various stages of the game it seemed more like:

Bug-ridden Disaster

Boringly Dull, or

Badly Designed.

However, now the steam has stopped rising from me I think I'll settle for:

Bit Disappointing.

I do wish Larian well for DD2, but it's no longer the automatic purchase that this was after the joys of DD. Let's hope DD2 puts all the smiles back. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I definitely saw that hammer spell -- all the "Black Ring Clerics" in the Act IV Battlefields. A group of those was the first thing to kill me in an Act and a half, actually.

I probably will try again, because I don't like having paid for something and then not using it. But maybe if I wait a while I'll forget my frustration... and they'll patch it into perfection. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

(Oh, and I didn't even get to solve the lying elementals quest, because I asked the question that I would have used -- "are you a golem," or whatever the wording was, and they won't answer it. I mean, honestly, the time-told solution to the "one tells the truth and one lies" question is to ask one a question you know the answer to, and then to ask the other the question you need the answer to. I was so frustrated by that point that I didn't even want to do the quest again, and I just settled for not getting the XP.)

Etoile, about the golems:
You could go past them and take a look at both paths: and so it was "clear" to me how to ask (pure water symbolizes safe path - lava/fire elemental symbolizes dangerous path):
Is left door safe? Yes (truth) No (lie)
Would the other golem say the left path is safe? No (lie) yes (truth)

I had one say "yes" and one say "no".

I'm a bit surprised you took the "are you a golem" question - why? I didn't understand your post dealing with your question choice, sorry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> (I'm not good in philosophy)
Kiya

It wasn't that big a deal, I just swept off to the left and went through the door, but I was ticked off at it being yet another in a series of things that just didn't work out right.

It's the answer to the riddle that I learned, oh, years ago. You've got two people: one always tells the truth and one always lies. You can ask each of them one yes or no question. So ask one of them the question to which you need the answer (in this case, "Which route is safe?"), and then ask the other some question that you can immediately tell if it's telling the truth or not ("are you a turtle?").

That's a different set of logical skills than the "one tells the truth, one lies, and you can only ask one question total" puzzle, but since we could ask each critter a question it's the route I took. It hardly mattered, really, in the scope of the game, but it became yet another irritant at a time when the last thing I needed was more irritation.

BTW, interesting about the poison arrows. Too bad not a single skill point of mine was sunk into them.

Thank you for explaining <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

About the arrow stuff => I played the game in German first and killed the end boss with the hammer spell (I'm not good at combat). Then I read the first English gamer saying: it's not possible to kill him with archer skills. So, I asked the Germans and got a very good answer... Errhm, but I couldn't reproduce it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> . Then the first German gamer said: it works.

And I tried over and over again until I found out what I had done wrong:

1. My distance was too far - and as his agility was high, so I missed. Or, I hit him but then had a series of missing => he was at full health again.

2. I tried to tackle him by using my arrows from south to north - and there seemed to be a sort of barricade: my splitting arrows flew into all directions, but NOT in his.

As I hated giving up => I kept on trying until I found this out:
At sneak 8 (I later even used a lower level) I could get pretty close, fire 1-2 shots - move a few steps away, shoot 2x - move, shoot 2x. And suddenly I had luck: I landed critical hits. And I did not fire from the center in south/north direction. He and my char moved counter clockwise around the field corners - does this make sense? I simply kept away from the free area in the middle.

So, I tried several variations, as the German gamers used normal or splitting arrows without proficiency at all. But I was only good in poison.

In melee (used crushing/slashing/piercing weapons without even a skill pt there) I just used the fully sharpened Demon Cutter Axe, as my agility was very high. Archer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - ok, I had to deal with his cronies, but I combined melee+hammer at 5 (?)

And my favourite killing method was => Ethereal method fireball + sneak. Didn't use ONE health potion. I had a lot of mana potions, as my archer survivor did not have a very high intelligence. So, I could only fire 2x and had to drink.

All these experiments were done in the pure English version 1.44 on tactical.
Kiya

PS: I was not frustrated though - then my patience is high. If I had been fed up and angry, I would not have experimented... I just wanted to prove to myself => there are several methods.

I prepared myself for this end battle => gathered a lot of cash to unlearn all non-combat skills. Boosted myself up with golden charms and my meagre 2 holy water bowls. I sold all DK skills, put them into "sharpen" to have a real good Axe - or sharpen another weapon. And I saved before doing all this, so I could experiment.

What I did not do => sell his skills and then give them to my Summ dolls - I wanted to finish this guy on my very own. Why? Well, he had duped my char, she had been a puppet all the time. I don't take this very kindly. And the only thing I was mad about => I had no opportunity to make a knot into Asmodheus.

LOGIC PUZZLE SPOILER

This is how the reasoning should go for the choice of question.

None of the questions (except one) will give you enough information about the doors. This is because you don't know whether you are talking to a liar or a truth teller. But fortunately you don't need to know.

You need to ask either golem what the OTHER one would answer to a question about which door to take.

Case 1:

If you're talking to the liar he knows that the OTHER one would give you a TRUE answer. But being a liar he will reverse that and tell you the opposite. (Outcome: he tells you the wrong door).

Case 2:

If you're talking to the truth teller he knows that the other one will tell you a LIE, so he honestly repeats that lie. (Outcome: he tells you the wrong door).


CONCLUSION:

As long as you frame the question that way you will get the SAME answer from both golems, and it will always be a LIE. So just do the OPPOSITE of whatever the answer is! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I hope that makes sense to anybody who has trouble with that sort of logic stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was surprised by the ending myself and had made my DK too powerful. Fortunately I had a save game right before the end.

I went back to the save. Then I went to the battlefield and had my DK drop all of his inventory items, bought back all the skill points that had been invested in fighting skills, and put them into non-fighting skills. Then I armed the DK with a pot that I had laying around.

ENDGAME PLOT SPOILERS

That’s a nice idea NightMares but, with respect, I'm somewhat doubtful that it made any difference to the fight.

My DK was an archer with no mage skills, virtually no INT, no crushing skills, and armed only with a crossbow.

Once he assumed his true character he revealed a completely new set of skills that I hadn’t seen before. Given the plot, that's fair enough too.

Not only did he fight with a hammer not a bow, but he also had excellent mage skills to summon assistants, etc. The hammer was not in his inventory before, nor could he have attacked me with the magic skills that he did.

I don’t think that you can usefully manipulate his abilities or equipment before the fight, although arming him with a pot is a lovely idea. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I might be wrong of course, but did you actually see the pot or was what you saw really the same hammer that I saw??

I don't think what I did to my DK made a difference, I think that once he reveals himself you get an enemy with a new set of stats. A predefined set. He definitely pulled that hammer out of thin air for my game, so...

And enough about the logic puzzle! I know how to solve logic puzzles, my gribe here was that a second path that should have worked just fine didn't, and by that point in the game I was so ticked off at it that I didn't even bother loading a game and doing the quest again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

You are correct - the DK's stats, traits and weapon are fix, regardless of what you do.