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veteran
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OP
veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
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---- [color:"orange"] UPDATE: June 17th, 2005[/color] Upgrading your nForce2-based motherboard ATA controller driver may lead the copy protection system to fail. You will have to clean your system from the previous nForce driver for Starforce to work with the new one. ---- [color:"orange"] What is StarForce? [/color] StarForce is a PC copy protection system. [color:"orange"] Does it require drivers to run? [/color] Yes, StarForce installs its own drivers in order to run. These drivers can be safely removed and are only ever used when the game is launched or in progress. Download the StarForce cleaner here (file size: 16,7 kb) to uninstall the StarForce drivers. You should only use it when you want to erase Beyond Divinity from your hard disk, otherwise, if you want to play the game again (or any other game that uses StarForce protection) you will have to reinstall those drivers. [color:"orange"] I have heard that StarForce and SafeDISC are not compatible on the same system, is this true? [/color] StarForce has extensively tested these claims and can report that they have found no issues, across a multitude of operating platforms and driver combinations. [color:"orange"] I have heard that StarForce 'dials home' and is like 'spyware' [/color] Again, this is untrue, the version of StarForce that we are using does not dial home, nor does it collect, or transmit any information about your computer over the internet. *** <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> IMPORTANT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" /> The Windows XP Service Pack 2 [color:"red"] BETA[/color] is reported as being not totally compatible with StarForce, so be sure you use a [color:"red"] FINAL[/color] version of Windows XP Service Pack 2 if you encounter problems with the game. *** These FAQ's will be monitored and any further questions you may have will be answered and placed here.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2003
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Thank you Lynn, for the official information. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> It will be a great help to all those confused beings! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />
[color:"#33cc3"] Jurak'sRunDownShack!Third Member of Off-Topic Posters Defender of the [color:"green"]PIF. [/color] Das Grosse Grüne Ogre!!! [/color]
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veteran
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Way to go Lynn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> at least now us Paranoid deviants can at least feel safe, now that it is in Black & white errr white & blue <grin>
Mea Culpa's Demesne
Note; artwork for Avatar courtesy of NWN and CEP
Old Elven Saying:
"Never say Never if you're gonna live forever!!!"
"I didn't do it, it wasn't my fault"
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
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...Though in future, it would be appropriate to let the user be aware of what gets installed on their systems! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />
I was quite shocked to hear of this being installed without notification..
Shame that it won't take as long to crack as long as it took you to protect this game.. (not mentioning the amount of time you spent on dealing with the bugs in this game!)
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veteran
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Joined: May 2003
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Read my signature. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> Why do you need to say it installs things on your computer? If you do that you need to say what every file in the game is too!
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
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That is your oppionion, i respect that. I won't mention the fact that this particular software isnt actually the game itself..........Moreover, it is actually more a nuisance than protection, coz we all know how long it takes to crack. Honestly, i cant wait for the crack to come and remove this protection AND the software called StarForce from my system. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> But isnt that illegal? ...Oh and Starforce installing itself without permission is legal? ..oh ofcourse there is no spyware.. well, if it put itself there without my consent AND knowledge, im NOT going to trust that am i!? I did not ask for it when i bought the game. If a game is really good, people will buy it if its worth it.. Even if it is cheaper to DL it, i will go out and buy that game because the programmers deserve that credit for their hard work. Protecting a game is ultimatly really a waste of time, resources, reliability and performance (to me anyway). The one game that will impress me most, is one without protection at all..
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2003
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That will also be the game the most peole will pirate because it will be so easy to do.
Consent?
Did you agree to the EULA? Did you click INSTALL?
I think when you clicked instal it meant you were agreeing everything that was being installed was of your own free will.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2003
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Here is all the info I found out about StarForce on Digital Jesters forums from the StarForce person there. These are all direct quotes, so might not make sense. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> Hi guys,
I work for StarForce, and worked with Monte Cristo and DJ on this project.
StarForce is an OFFLINE protection, it's not a trojan, it's not a virus or anything like that.
Anyone with TCP/IP knowledge can run the game and see that it doesn't connect anywhere
to send any data or information.
Yes Starforce uses a driver, and so does other protection, it is true that we didn't provide any
tool to remove it, and we corrected that, and DJ will post a link to the latest version of SF Clean to remove the drivers.
The drives are silents, and are only used when you started a protected application, so i doubt they really are a threat to anyone.
On a side note, we notice a lot of rumors going around with forums but we haven't seen many people, with actual problems, however nothing is perfect so we are not saying problems CANNOT occure, however if you have a problem please do contact us through the DJ support and you'll see we'll take your problem seriously and will work to fix it ASAP! All of those rumors started when we protected TOCA Race Driver 2, we were worried, we checked, there is nothing special about brit computers that could prevent our protection scheme to run on them
We don't want to annoy legitimate customers, we want to keep them busy playing the titles, and we want also to keep busy ... hackers ... trying to crack our software. They might very well suceeed then we'll come up with a new version and new flavors for the 2004/2005 season!
Honnestly protection schemes all are the same, they need a driver to check the disc, and they need the disc when you start the game for 10 seconds, and that's it... Compare that with those annoying Audio CD protection that pevent you from copying it to your IPOD and such and you'll see it's no big deal.
You want to watch a DVD, you put the disc in the drive, you want to play a console game, you put the disc in the drive, you want to play DDAY, you put the disc in the drive, sounds logical to me
Cheers,
PS: Sorry for the spelling mistakes and grammatical errors, as you may have guessed i'm not a native english speak but at least i'm trying
A potential customer said :
"Thanks for stating ahead of time that your game will be shipping with the Starforce Trojan Horse. There aren't any stores in my area that will return opened software, so you guys just saved me forty to fifty dollars, which I appreciate. If you ever decide to release a version of Chaos League that doesn't contain a trojan that may/may not ruin another one of my USB HDs, I'll probably buy it. I really enjoyed the demo, but Starforce will never be allowed to **** up my system again.
Thanks again,
A potential customer."
we are sorry to hear that you had problems with our protection, did you contacted the tech support to get it fixed?
However, the demo HAS starforce, so if you ran the demo fine, there is NO reason the finish product wouldn't run, because both exe demo & retail are using the SAME version of the protection.
and it's NOT a trojan! There are no problems with Nero, imagine if there were any the tech support would be swamped with calls!
and yes trust me the drivers are the same for the demo version of the retail version despite there is no cd check for the demo version. When you run the game the frist time, it says it's installing the starforce drivers which are part of the game, as the game uses our third party technology, then it asks for the reboot to update your system! If you want to get rid of the drivers, download SF CLEAN and uninstall the demo and you'll SF free
A Trojan is something malicious, that is designed to harm your PC, which is not the case here. mattwakeman your opinion is all right, everyone is entitled to have one
however do you know that EVERY copy protection on the market except ONE uses a driver? Which means if you stick to you own thoughts you can't buy any PC game except for those protected with this one protection! And as every descent PC game on the market is protected that narrows down your possibility. But it's all right, there are good games on console too!
And once again, sorry if our program was installed without your knowledge, download the latest SF clean and we promise it will all go away! Long Quotes sorry!!! All except one of those quotes was taken from this thread. http://www.digitaljesters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4468&page=1&pp=15
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
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"That will also be the game the most peole will pirate because it will be so easy to do."--> Yes exactly my point right there, people will pirate like mad.. I would have used it to test out BD, and then i would have come to a conclusion! ...lol, i dont even need to GIVE my conclusion... I would not buy the game and it would be INSTANTLY removed from my system. ...why not DL a demo instead? No, they only show you in a demo what they want you to see. Unfortunatly, the idea doesnt work.. Too many programmers and companies who are unsuccesful in delivering *quality* software, will go bankrupt.. ....Shall i name a few? ...hmmmmm... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> "Consent?
Did you agree to the EULA? Did you click INSTALL?
I think when you clicked instal it meant you were agreeing everything that was being installed was of your own free will.".....Was that your "default" response? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> --> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Well Gee-wiz then why no mention of Starforce or similar in the EULA?! Oh, i know, its in there, but its not mentioned by name.. In fact, we will just install whatever on your system just because you clicked yes! And we will give you even more bull**** should you dare to complain about it!!!! Thank you.
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veteran
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Joined: May 2003
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No it wasn't. ....Shall i name a few? ...hmmmmm... Yes please! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
--> Well Gee-wiz then why no mention of Starforce or similar in the EULA?! Oh, i know, its in there, but its not mentioned by name.. Its not mentioned by name? Er, so? In the EULA there is no thing that says " Oh BTW, we are installing a file with voices on it. We are installing another file with voices on it. Guess what, yep, you got it-another one! And so on. they don't need to mention every single file do they?? In fact, we will just install whatever on your system just because you clicked yes! And we will give you even more bull**** should you dare to complain about it!!!!
Thank you.
Well, yeah, whatever. You DID click yes. Its not there fault anymore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> They're giving away free bull****? AWESOME! I need some new fertilizer for my lawn here, its summer you know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Not much rain at all here. So I could really use some free bull****. I can imagine it now! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> They are so nice! But I do't think its BS, it sounds pretty true to me. I don't have any problems from StarForce.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
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I for one am upset about the whole starforce thing, nowhere on the game box, cd, manual, eula, readme, install did it ever mention that 3rd party drivers were going to be installed on my system, so they did so without my knowledge or permission, also i don't feel its right that these drivers prevent other legal software from functioning at the same time as them i.e. cd emulators, just because these tools are sometimes used by hackers it does not give you the right to prevent a piece of legal software to run while your game runs, seeing how this software is legal you have absolutley no right to prevent it from working, thats my decision to make, also it is absolutely ludicrous that a person should have to access the internet to get a piece of software to remove these drivers, what if a person has no internet access, you have an obligation to provide them with the tools to remove these drivers with the piece of software they purchased seeing how nowhere was it ever stated that these drivers were going to be installed or give the opportunity to not install them, not too mention these drivers interfere with cd-r devices as well as usb devices and they themselves are hidden, i think this is a total breach of the end user rights and if not produced by a corporation for use as videogame protection it would surely be categorized as spyware. I have no problem with the concept in general of copy protection, it is just the way in which these ones totally ignore the purchasers rights.
Last edited by fishboy11; 19/07/04 10:20 PM.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> Nice one fishboy, you are absolutly right! ..However sorry to say, that Larian and "Larian loyalists" give you free bull**** when you give your oppionion. Thats expected though as they included this "state of the art" protection to invade your system with this *nearly* excellent (beta) game, and rumor has it that you do agree to Starforce being installed on your system, somewhere in the EULA???? ...i think not!!!! For me it not so much the problems it gives, though it does make me more angry thinking about it that other people suffer alot from this StarInvade(oops, i meant FORCE.. FORCEINVADE maybe???), for me its the sly and sleek way you are SEEMINGLY allowing this to be installed!! You cant live without it either coz it comes with the game!!! This is somewhere a relieve coz the game is currently just crap to play, for me anyway. Oh patch v2.00 where are you? If i had been informed during install, or even before of this SpyForce (doing it again! oops!) being installed, i would have *largely* appreciated that! Being informed afterwards is extremely out of order!
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
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Take a look around all the forums on the net. Only about 1 in 30 gamers accept the use of Starforce. More and more find out about it each day, and increase these figures in favour of the 30 majority.
In order to find out if Starforce is doing it's job, perhaps someone from Larian could tell us if their projected sales have been met, and how many copies have been returned. Now that piracy has been eliminated have their profits increased X10 or 20 times...
To be honest, I think Starforce has cost larian more than it saved them, and I'd wager they won't use it in their next generation products. Perhaps they could also let us know if they intend to use it again?
Sadly, I think if you did a poll thread on here, that most people would be in favour of Starforce, as everyone is a BD fan. What I would like is a game that actually does a full install when it says it does. No need for a disc in the drive, and backups made simple.
Faith is believing in something you know isn't true 
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
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The only bad thing about StarForce is that it isn't listed anywhere.. So much noise about it. Don't think there is a need to be aware. There are many ways to deal with it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> In Russia almost every licensed game comes with StarForce (at least for the past 2 years). It's really sad.. One half of my CD was cracked and I had to apply some scoth tape on it. I only had to pass the cd check, then I took the CD out and played the game. With every day that crack was growing... Yet I managed to finish off the game before the disc crashed. Sad story. The moral is: i don't like starforce atall <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />
elen sila lumenn omentielvo
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
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i just wanted to add that the game itself is great, and very stable, no crashes as of yet i can even alt-tab and back with no probs. But the whole starforce thing still irks me, i don't understand the point of it really copy protections seem to be a waste of time and money to me, especially this one, the trade off between defeating pirates for a short time and pissing off your fans and losing potential future sales doesn't seem to be a good one. So the only thing i can really think of, is that starforce itself has another purpose besides just copy protection and that is to test the publics reaction to having some of their rights violated as a customer and if starforce went over without to much trouble i bet you'd see the future versions of starforce or other copy protecions taking even more liberties and even phoning home, sounds a little crazy i'll admit but really i see it as a possiblity.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
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Question to the Larians about Starforce: [color:"yellow"]Does this program check if a burn-program is on the drive, please? [/color] If your FAQ answers this and I am unable to detect it, because these burn-programs have a different name definition, please, tell me which the correct one is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />. Thank you in advance. Kiya
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
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I'm Afraid it does. It checks for Nero and Alcohol... So I'm told. Whether detecting these programs influences StarForce in some way, I'm unsure. I think it checks for virtual drives. But now that all the StarForce shenanigans are public knowledge, anyone installing a game with it, deserves what they get <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Faith is believing in something you know isn't true
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member
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member
Joined: May 2004
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I'm Afraid it does. It checks for Nero and Alcohol... So I'm told. Whether detecting these programs influences StarForce in some way, I'm unsure. I think it checks for virtual drives. No, it does not. StarForce assured us that they are not checking for anything installed on the computer, except for their own drivers of course. Nowadays, it's hard to find a new computer without a CD or DVD burner, and most of the time, you get Nero in bundle with it. What would be the point of checking the presence of Nero since 95% of the gamers have it ? And anyway, Nero cannot make a working copy of a StarForce protected CD. (by working copy I mean a copy allowing the game to start, installation doesn't care) I think people say that StarForce checks for virtual drives because when they try to mount an image of a protected game, StarForce asks to use another drive. That's because StarForce wants to use the most compatible drive, the most likely to work well with the protection check. Emulated drives have lots of restrictions... This may as well occur with tho "real" CD drives, if StarForce believes one is better suited for the check than the other one, he'll ask the user to switch the CD. So, StarForce doesn't work with images mounted on virtual drives, not because it detects the emulation program who created those virtual drives, but because these drives are not compatible. And you'll agree that this is the expected behavior from a protection system.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Apr 2003
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from one of the other Starforce threads (the second link was broken in the original post, too): star-force drivers need to be updated at every Windows Service Pack. They rely on undocumented features of the OS which are subject to change at any time. Don't believe me? http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1061548782/#details From http://www.star-force.com/index.pht...gory=107&type=5 (i.e the FAQ) This means the publisher needs to provide support for years to come for their star-force protected game. If they don't (which is what usually happens), then on the next ServicePack/windows update, your computer will throw a nice Blue screen of death at you, and you will not be able to play a game you paid for. Is there any truth to this? Will Beyond divinity really be unplayable once Larian's publisher stops supporting it/ceases to exist? Or did the Starforce guys give you some kind of special protection removal patch to be released once updating for new Windows versions becomes more trouble than it's worth?
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member
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member
Joined: May 2004
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Is there any truth to this? Will Beyond divinity really be unplayable once Larian's publisher stops supporting it/ceases to exist? Or did the Starforce guys give you some kind of special protection removal patch to be released once updating for new Windows versions becomes more trouble than it's worth? Contacted about this matter, StarForce told us they had an agreement with Microsoft to support StarForce protection systems on Windows XP Service Pack 2.
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