Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) Divinity 2 - plot dreams

I'd like to invite you to dream a bit about how Div 2 could be set up. Not in controls and tech stuff or in graphics => but in zhe PLOT!
Please, only post ideas for a worked out plot, if you can.

[color:"yellow"]This is my plot now - maybe you have a totally different one? I'd love to hear it. [/color]

My suggestion:
Main NPC in Verdistis:
Isolde (Damian's witch love was killed by his foster Dad, thus leading to BD), Penumbra (assassina from Div), Josephine (Black Ring member from Div) were all relatives => a mighty female clan, who faked, they would serve the Lord of Lies, but had other secret intentions => taking over Rivellon.

The only survivor at the moment is Penumbra - and as she grew old, she spent her time, telling other young females in this clan about their mighty ancestors. She knows, Damian is roaming Rivellon now, on the hunt for his foster Dad, but doesn't really care. She's dreaming more about how her young female relatives could take care of the old dream => a matron, experienced in the art of assassinating, stealing and killing with a licence.

So, the story starts with a few youths crouched at her feet and she relates what has happened so far - out of her point of view, of course. She's quite tolerant, therefore she shares her knowledge even with young males, why not? If they do the dirty work, the females can take over in an elegant way; but she's very open to sharing power. She's in Verdistis, BTW and teaches you her skills, you can practice them via subquests. And you can't leave Verdistis until to the end of Act 1. One of your first tasks would be to get one of the noble houses => either Patrick's or Dante's. No, they don't live anymore, but their relatives are weak, corrupt and good to discharge. This point will be the place to build up a trading company for cash.

Main NPC in the Dark Forest:
At the same time - in another town - hmm... maybe somewhere in Dark Forest, the Warrior Guild? The Divine Order is recruiting new disciples, as their founder was successfully killed by Damian. The gamer learns the other side of the story. There is a fight for power going on there, so this Order is weak. Sadly, assassination, poison and discriminating is a popular fashion to try and gain important positions. The gamer will have to create order in there. This will allow the gamer to practice skills and learn via sub-quests. In order to maybe recruit a small army of paladins/warriors, this point will be the 2nd main house. And you can't leave this area on the mountain peak, until the Council mage intervenes.

A bit about controls
So, the game could have you steer 2 chars - one in Verdistis, one in the Warrior guild, until plot ends meet at the end of Act 1 maybe. From then on, the game is pretty non-linear - leading to Rivellon and from then on to other unknown areas - you will meet beyond others, an aged Geoff, Kroxy and Otho, of course.

In any case, these 2 chars will have to meet and carry on together - I dream of them fighting against each other, but I think, this is too complicated, so both should cooperate. And for those liking love stories => the female Verdistis char and the male Warrior guild char might have a few banters - or for those not liking this => just a comradeship. There's nothing against trying to cheat each other or getting the better of the other, though. Just this => they have to be opposite gender IMO (or male Verdistis/female warrior).

Council Hall
Now, how to make both meet? I think, we need a catalyst for this => an old mage, maybe. A bit like Elminster - located in the Council Hall, where both chars have to learn from him and maybe learn a third side of the story so far. He will not join, but be a teacher for the mage path and forward the plot in certain situations by popping up. This section is neutral, the mages have not taken side for either party.

The enemy => as ever, the Black Ring. Dragon riders, Black Ring members (with the stunning spell), double-crossing NPC as agents all over the areas. So, both chars will have to take care whom to trust. In some cases, the assassina approach of the Verdistis char, in other the Warrior Guild char are the better choice.

The goal is clear in an unclear way => either the Verdistis side wins wanting to rule the whole world, not minding the Black Ring really, or the Order side wins, wanting to get rid of the Black Ring. So, Romeo and Juliet need to cooperate and decide how to go on. This would be in single mode, of course. The MP part would result in both contrahents fighting each other? I have no ideas for MP, as I don't like this way of gaming. But, I guess => single/MP have to be different, right?

Twists
As the WG char is not welcome in Verdistis - this town is in the hands of Penumbra's guild - your V char will have to take over. Same for the Warrior Guild in the Dark Forest, your V char is not welcome there. This will result in NPC not trading or giving info the one char. So, you will have to keep this in mind. Fans of the WG, V and Black Ring members are spread all over the neutral territories, so it might be interesting to see different approaches. Why? Well, I try to prevent building up one char at the expense of the other one.

Skills
I'm thinking of this =>

survivor path => mainly taught in Verdistis. And here I'd like a new skill => bribing/blackmailing/coaxing/diplomacy.
It would depend on your intelligence! So, you can talk NPC into something... Now take kidnapping e.g. => wouldn't it be nice to get an NPC do something for you, cause you kidnapped his favourite doggie? No, wives/kids might not be a good idea, maybe the NPC is glad to be rid of them? Or... a nice slow working poison - and bidding the antidote, if the NPC obeys and signs a letter e.?

warrior path => mainly taught in the Warrior Guild - a new skill would be intimidating. A nice way to get your results, without having to kill, because your V char believes in living victims (she prefers to live off milking cows and not dead beef <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> )

mage path => Council Hall. These rooms will have path mages

neutral path => some skills may be vital/important for both chars, such as alchemy, wisdom, trading etc.

AS the WG and V char are seperate at first, they will be restricted to the skills of their environment first. Base combat skills (melee/ranged) are surely taught a bit in Verdistis, but this part is NOT heavily combat oriented and on ground level, the sewers will not be accessable at first. The WG char will be involved in combat, but this dungeon crawl is limited to the area, the gamers know from Div.
As soon as both chars meet, they can be teachers for the other, but have to meet attributes for this.

In some cases, they will have to act seperately for quests.

switching
In the first act - you will have 2 icons => WG and V. So, if you're fedup with one area, you switch to the other one (like with the BF icons). Main goal - leading to the Council Hall mage to intervene, is in both cases a responsible position in either guild (Penumbra's and the warrior's).

Further procedure
V and WG char have gained their responsible position and are both in possession of an insignia => a special guild ring, giving you special attributes, can't be transfered or switched. These rings will be entrance keys to some dungeons or areas, upon showing them to NPC, you get valuable info, trade special secret items. These items will result in ONE set for each char, so, you'd better not lose that ring <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

The WG char will be asked by the guy (he supported to make a leader) to go to Verdistis and find support against the Black Ring members, even paladins need money <chuckle> - as chaotic power is strong again. I'm thinking of Dragon Riders, and mages being able to summon the cute Sand Demons/Devils of the Wastelands <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - He will have to survive the Dark Forest to reach Verdistis and can't access the areas there (Dwarven Hall, Imp Castle => Ha, the Black Ring members are there etc.)

The V char will be asked by Penumbra to take a stroll through the country sides and set up trading posts. As a practical person, the existing ones should be taken over, but the Ars Magicana traders won't be too happy about this. Stormfist Castle is without a ruler and has become a trading post as well - Aleroth is a thriving tiny village with a few traders - the destroyed orc village was built up and you find orc trading there. Methods to convince these races to "join" the assassin merchants (errhm) could be a bit like the Godfather Mafia method, remember the skill I mentioned? "Diplomacy"? Would be interesting, how dwarves react to this... or the elves....

As soon as both leave the WG/V, the Council mage intervenes and teleports both to the Council Hall => 2 cut scenes, so both chars meet for the first time there. The WG char needs money (assassin merchant guild), the V char needs a bit muscular power for her diplomacy goal. Both dislike each other at the first glance.

Now... what will the Council Mage want? Hmm, Stormfist is without a ruler, right? Both will have to find living relatives of the royal family, hopefully one without wearing nappies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> - why? Well, a ruler could legitimate the assassin merchant guild and maybe provide the warrior with cash for his Order. And the mage knows where a relative lives... but this is what the Black Ring members know as well... a small rat race begins.

To make it complicated => I'm thinking of a spoilt, clumsy youth here. Someone in need for training, an annoying young adolescent would-be-ruler, the 3rd to join the 2 for a short while => learning a bit about this country and the people. Don't worry, after a short companionship, the Council mage will take him to Otho and the Patriarch for further lessons <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

You think, he could be a fighting companion? Nope, sorry. He will annoy and bother you all the time, ask a lot of questions, wishes royal treatment (so, don't dare to give him bread only or a sleeping mat on the ground or rags to wear...) If you don't take care, he will annoy NPC, so keep a rope and gags handy. Combat will make him scream at first - he's untrained, what about fighting lessons from the WG char? Threats/bribing/diplomacy could be another way to make that chap cooperate.

OK, that's it - that's my plot dream..

maybe for MP they meet in an inn or bar or just in the street? And then you band togeather, with a few scripting changes from single to multiple?

And for SP. You talked about the Noble Houses? What about having you choose what guild you want to join? Warrior's ( new HQ here), quests vrs monsters outside town/sewers. Thief's, steal this or that. Assassins, kill this person or that. Etc. You can try to get a Noble House person to give you a patreonage?

For meeting up, I like the idea of maybe the two players ( single player really) maybe going to an old library and being taught secrets of their crafts by a learned mage, and one day they bump into each other? Somebody forgot something at the library or need's help learning a difficult skill for one of their guild quests?


For the female rulers clan, maybe you can find them a bit more willing to help out more? Maybe they have the old castle, set up in a wilderness, where you need to go to read the books in their library, but it has either A) fallen to monsters, or B) the new leader of the clan is iron fisted and has many gaurds? DeathKnights, humans, imps, etc.

I think one has to be a female and one needs to be a male, so you can have a better plot with akin to Romeo and Juliet, like you said.

ANd if the player would like to, maybe they can make a female warrior who nobody takes seriously, but fights with honour, unlike the other soldiers at her guild who are corrupted by a secret agent of the enemy?

And the Verdistis male assassin, etc, er, more ideas on him later...

kiya, that's wonderful! u must've put so much thought on the subject matter. i hope larians will think of this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

anyway, feedback:

character interaction is nice! it's almost like one game that i knew but forgot the name. i think it's an adventure or horror/survival game. with the two separated initially, the gameplay can be quite smooth without the other stumbling on another's feet & players can learn the game mechanics slowly & get to be exposed with as many skills as possible without the choices being overwhelming.

though your plot suggests more linearity than DD or BD, i think it will make the story tight & cohesive. i think this style will be script-heavy.

anyway, i would like to see farmers forming their own guild to protect their interests; health of crops, prices on crops, etc. after all, rivellon is no longer a poor man's quarter as there's no more plague to hold that place back & with the farmers, the place has elevated to verdistis level back in DD timeline while verdistis is on the verge of bankcrupcy due to corruption & stuff.

oh well, just my ideas. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Errh. no, then I was misunderstood. I pointed out that only act 1 would be linear, so both chars steered by gamer would learn their specialities. As soon as both chars are together after the Council Mage intervention, they are free to roam, solve sub quests in any order - I think only the end (with a decision and 2 differing cut scenes) would be "linear". So, even landing a blow at the Black Mages (maybe with Damian as protagonist) would not be the end.
The Verdistis char wants to set up an assassin merchant empire (a sort of Mafia)
The Warrior Guild char needs to set up an army, or at least a functioning Order (would require settle points as well?)
In both cases negotiations, quests and settling points would be necessary, the races have to decide => humans, orcs, elves, dwarves, lizards and the imps (in a new region). It would be nice, if the 2 chars need not be human.

Yes, guilds attached to the races would be nice - and some are hostile to each other. So, if char 1 managed to bribe/coax/threaten the lizards on her/his side - the imps would only side up with char 2 e.g. - but not automatically, this depends on the sub quests and settle points. Linearity would only be in the amount of quests per race, should be an irregular number, so a stalemate is impossible (correct word? In any case, 3,5,7 etc.)

Hm, if I remember the lizards... maybe they are in Council Hall and act as mage teachers.

So the end could be that the ruler youth they found would either give the official certificate to side 1 or 2.

Or, the inhabitants of this world would make an election, depending on how many deeds served the one or other side. This would be done in 2 different quest logs for a better overview - or in one with different colours, so the gamer can see, which quest would serve which side and keep balance if she/he can't decide.

I have no clue how difficult this would be for a script or programming

What, you mean lecherous* and inclined toward talking in faux-medieval English? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

*Aside from having been turned into a woman once, Elminster has sired many, many children and has frolicked with lots and lots of women, including a goddess.

Not to nitpick but isn't Ygerna the fallen love of Damian? Isolde is the witch that supposedly could remove the soulbinding. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />


PS: love the skill sytem with guids (if you could enter all guilds to have an open char) That would resolve tracking down teachers. Shure teachers could still be spreade in the world but the guid would say something like this.

"So you want a more powerfull spell. theire one was a man here that could open up the sky and flaming meteors would strike everything in the path of the enemy but he left to settle in verdistes 5 years ago here is his address, just say your a guild member and with the correct perswation he'll teach it to you".

Also I would (this could fit in with the guilds) quests or money to pay a teacher. If your low on gold the guild member that wants to teach you a spell can send you on a small quest if you haven't got time just pay the gold.

@Morbo => Sorry, Morbo, yes, it was Ygerna instead if Isolde.
Hm, this time I wouldn't send chars off to hunt teachers, but keep them more at one place, as the main guilds have their settle points - but quests to get the legitimation for a skill would be in-game for sure.

And your idea with guild membership is very good <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking of this => each skill is represented by a rune, or an insignia. An example for the mage spells would be an orb for each path. So, getting this orb as a reward e.g. would then allow the gamer to activate it and choose - let's say 2-3 spells. Getting higher leveled spells in this path would require a more powerful orb. As I hate a cluttered inventory, the orbs would perish after choice. If the manual continues to be as frugal as in Div/BD - the activated orb will have to explain a bit about each spell. But you can contact the mage teacher and ask for this info over and over again. Or, the orb changes into a parchment with explanation => and goes into a spell/skill log book (like a notebook for pupils)

Alchemy skills e.g. would be represented by another artefact, maybe a small laboratory, no distinction between extract/combine in this case.

Wisdom, trading => would be in form of a scroll, like getting a diploma.

Weapon skills would be divided into ranged/melee only - you need a teacher to give you a lesson and receive a weapon icon with slots (this is the base requirement). In order to boost up your ability, you need "gems". You can either buy them, find them or get them as reward. Each "gem" represents an attribute to boost up your skill (a bit like the crystal bag in BD). So, if you equip a weapon - melee - you can click on the weapon skill icon, insert the gem for critical hit, deathblow, strength etc.
Advanced teachers would give you more slots in your weapon icon (or open them). Why? Well, each melee weapon type has 1 specific strength (slashing, crushing, piercing etc) to be really effective.

Shields would be included into the weapon section, but the gem is cumulative. So, a gem for a Tournament shield would include the ability for round, metal, wood, buckler etc. You need a certain shield level gem to be able and use a shield effectively.

Example - the base weapon icon has - let's say - 8 slots,ok? 3 for the specific attack (sword would be slashing, hammer/staff/gleave would be crushing, dagger/spear would be piercing) and 5 to boost up your skill (critical hit, deathblow, fast swing, strength, risk attack). Now, you don't need skill pts for this, but gems instead - and they are divided into levels, like rune charms. Your base attributes would be in your char part - as already done. Teachers open the weapon type slots, you find/buy the boosting gems.

Same for ranged weapons - a 2nd weapon icon with lesser slots in this case. I'm thinking of darts, crossbows, slings, bows. Maybe 4 slots for the weapon type? and then uhhhhhh. .. think up what you wish, I'm not a tech expert. Works with ranged gems then.

Expertise skills in the weapon section would be like these medals soldiers have (repair, sharpen, durability etc.) clicking on these medals would activate the skill, then you click on the weapon.

Hmmmmmmm, seems like I make a hunt, icon and packrat game... Maybe this is all too complicated? It's just... I like hunting for something <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />


Hey, hasn't anyone got an own idea for a plot? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

@To Winterfox => Elminster was merely an example => popping up at inconvenient times, cryptical expressions, annoying both chars etc. It could be Zandalor, of course - but I think not all old NPC from Div should pop up - so, there is room for new ones. I think an annoying lizard mage would be nice. I like their hissing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - on the other hand: would it be logical for a lizard mage to send the chars off and search a would-be human ruler? Not made up my mind yet.

Hey, hasn't anyone got an own idea for a plot?

---

Oh, I thought we're suppoused to follow on your plot dream! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Yes, I understand what you were trying to imply. I was making a remark in reference to Elminster's character. I take it you've never read the novels?

Nope, only know him from BG. I chose the option to tick him off one time, cause he annoyed me.

having the guilds polarised is a good idea. by having them being enemies of one another; warrior vs mage, religious vs merchant (this can be a big twist, i'll elaborate later), thieves vs cult, etc; one can expect all sorts of outcomes though the main outcome of the game would be inevitable; your two endings.

like lews said it, kiya, it's your show so we'll concentrate on your dream. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

now, about morbo's idea of learning that higher or even 'ultimate' level of certain skill(s), one must go to certain teacher(s) who has long 'resigned' from any position in the guild. & that old geezer(s) will be very pissed when he/she learnt that the current guildmaster just sent somebody unknown, untrustworthy (at least to that old timer), & unwanted to him when all he/she wanted is to go fishing or organise frog races with other old timers in his area. so what is he/she going to do about our hero(s)?

old timer can send them on 'quests' so that he/she can be left alone to do his/her usual daily activities. get rid of the pesky hero-wannabees, the old timer would say. his/her friends around him/her would whisper or even shout to him suggestions to get rid, er..., they mean to send the heroes on 'important' quests. if the heroes found themselves fooled by the oldies & want to do something about it, they will need to have high enough skills in diplomacy to convince or nag the old timer enough to teach just to get the heroes off his/her back. if the heroes however impressed the old timer enough with the mundane quests (requirement: total success in quests with impeccable result), he/she may throw in a freebie or two.

thing is; no promises for the heroes. so heroes have to decide if the old timer is playing around just to pass his/her time & have a good joke to tell his/her friends or is that old geezer serious. again, diplomacy/charisma skills matter here to open up more dialogue trees.

as for weapon skills, i wonder if it should be bestiary knowledge skill? ok, let me explain;

instead of having different skills for different weapon or damage, why not learning how to kill particular beasts & monsters? by learning that, one can harness his/her killing skills to put the enemy down. this can be learnt from teachers or by experience. experience would be that if the player kills enough of the same enemy, he/she will be more efficient in killing them. in proportion to that, players receive less XP points in killing them. if one learns it early from a teacher, then one will receive a chunk of XP points followed by trickles of it when actually killing the enemy.

2 more cents have been added. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your right but I'was thinking only about 1 or 2 skills for each tree. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> Or maybe a beter sollution instead of one location of a guild, guildhouses in the most important cities. It would be a be bit tire some to have a guild in the dwarven halls when youre at verdistis. (Do I hear a teleportor opening <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />).

IU realy like the ideas here keep it up Kiya <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

HA! and what about what I wrote in my first post?



See? I thought this could become a pool about how gamers here would like to see Div 2 <sniff> - mine was just supposed to be a starter <doublesniff> - maybe gamers would come up with something totally new and exciting? I am so curious <triplesniff and long howling wail>
Kiya



excellent! Reminds a bit of the XP bomb and the thrill getting it - yes, this was fun. Would your idea determine the amount of monster classes then? And if, how many classes/races would you recommend, Janggut?

plot dream:

War has broken out: currently the battle is situated in the dark forrest where the two armies of the divine/dammed one battle for every meter (symbolic for theire equal in power thing). You are a peasant in the farmlands where all is quiet(for now) Responding to the call of duty of the armie our hero leave his parents to join the army. <insert quests> then in the middle of the game it takes a turn to for the worst the divine one is killed by a cunning trap of damian (the killer rabit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> or something like that) eiteher way something unexpected (divine one is getting old and has a eat attack for instance). the divine spirit needs a new body to reside in now. So the land is seached for a new divine one has to be chosen (a huge quest??). the armie of Damien is making strong progress now with the abscence of the divine one. You are chosen as divine one and the council meets. But zandalor has an idea to give the divine one a little boost. He creates a new seat making it the council of 8. You must riftrunn to the ranaar to get the eight member. when all members are theire all of rivellon is almost in the hands of Damian (everything is destroyed) and the forces of good are cornered into a little village making it theire last stronghold. Then in the village the divine one (that you are now) teleports. and tells every one to ride out and meet them <movie>( we see the the two armies on the battle field waithing till the march begin (forces of good outnumberd 4 to 1)) But, our hero plays his trump card. as the 2 armies ride toword each other, rifts open everywhere with a giant ranaar armie comming out (something like the ghost ship in LOTR behind the lines)(cinematics deparment could make this in a huge battle movie )</movie>. For the first time the forces of good are taking ground of evil. But you know the war still would last decades if nothing drastic is done. So you go to confront Damian susspecting a trap you riftrun damian and yourself to a safe dimention where you duke it out. then you reveal your trap to damian by making shure no rift can be created stranding both of you forever in this dimention to battle till the end of days.



I like this plot since it the divine one (the old one) has one weakness he sees damian as his adopted son and that makes him weak (he had 2 chance to finish damian of (killing him as a baby, and in the novella)). When you create a new divine one he won't have that problem. Also it leaves the door open for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />³ since when some careless ranaar should acedentally rift into them damian can use that portal to escape

I like a whole guild that has teachers in it, the teacher's guild!

i can guess which of the forum member will be the leader of this guild .... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

BARTA!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" />

anyways, back to the main topic;

kiya, i never thought of the classes or races which players have themselves pitted against, but i supposed the usual enemies encountered in the world of Rivellon & Ranaar (should DD2 visits that world again), plus a bonus attack against enemy of his/her guild. example; players from warrior guild have extra attack or attack bonus against mages, especially those from Mage Guild & vice versa.

as for the experience bomb thing, i'd recommend classless, as usual. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> let's make it guild-based, shall we? if u prefer race-based, it's good as well.

first we list the possible guilds;
Warriors, Mages, Thieves, Merchants, Religious, Farmers,

1. Warrior (allied with Religious, secretly with Merchants) vs Mage (allied with )
2. Thieves (allied with Religious, vs Merchants) vs Farmers (allied with Warriors, vs Merchants)
3. Religious (secretly allied with Merchants) vs Merchants (see above for alliance & rivalry)

now the slightly shallow backdrop on why Religious has so many allies while Merchants have almost every guild against them;

[color:"yellow"] Religious vs Merchants [/color]

or so it seems. officially Religious would condemn the unethical practises of Merchants. Merchants on the other hand would view the Religious as decadent & have no place in society.

unknown to most, the Arch-Priest controls both factions with influences that reaches even the Warriors Guild. he plays the venerable 'Father' & at the same time the Chairman of the Merchants' Golden Circle (board of directors full of secrecy, if u like). by giving boons & blessings (as Arch-Priest) to the Warriors Guild as well as granting them certain priviledges in 'acquiring' forbidden weaponry (as the Chairman). in turn, Warriors Guild will go with the gameplan of Arch-Priest, secretly hoping that when it's about time for Arch-Priest to ascend to power, the Warrior Lord (leader of WG) will usurp him & lead the new power in Rivellon.

nobody's innocent in this political game. so it's up to the heroes to figure out who to root for & pave the way to Rivellon's future. this doesn't have to be in the main plot. it's part of the big happening in Rivellon which players have not much control over but can still play an important part in, so he/she can steer things a bit, but not much. i haven't think fully on how this can be but this is just a premise so if it's good enough for u, then maybe we can expand this.

why Religious vs Merchants when both could've profit just as much if not more if publically known to be allies? well, that way Arch-Priest/Chairman can prevent possible usurping by diverting attention to elsewhere other than into the guilds themselves. there are people who may not warm up to Religious Fervour (the teachings) may find Merchants' hedonistic style attractive. either way, Arch-Priest/Chairman gets more 'converts'.

this idea is quite flawed but i think it can be made better. & i haven't think of proper backdrops for farmers guild. just a suggestion.

@ kiya -> we can still have classes & class-based skills but now higher levels or more specialised skills are only available in guilds, hence the relevance of guilds in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> universe. so i'm thinking classes are only for beginning of the game where players learn basic skills to start out then later on specialise by pledging allegiance to one guild. so class-based then guild-based. then & only then, teacher-based. so u can be the most skillful in one specific area of skill in a guild while very good in others. that way, players can make a more unique characters without too many skills overwhelming their choices.

as for enemies, kiya, maybe u can help? i'm stumped. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

not to talk on your main point ( its really late here and I have huge allergies) but the guild thingy.

Barta is the headmisteriss.

Kiya is the head librarian. 'ook' ok, the sub-head librarian. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Lews is the captain of the guard.

Janggut is the wandering student <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Jurak is the old janitor yelling at students <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Spick is the parent coming in to argue.

I can go on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I disagree. I lie the concept of guild wars but I have a problem with skills of the enemy guild could not be accassed (even if it are the ultimate spells). I would suggest that you could change guids. But this gives the problem that the player has the feeeling he's not connected to any guild. I am thinking more of something like disguises. You ally yourself with a guild, but in the world theire are several disguises that allow you to enter other guilds and learn stuff.

PS: Ik like the guils wars suggestion but how would this be integrated in the story. If indeed its the forces of good vs damian army and black ring shouldn's all guilds be united. Also the geo political situation could be a bit difficult.

example: war has broken out between orcs and humans. You are human with the warrior guild (that consists of orcs and humans). Basicly your allied with a race and a guild but what happens if alliances work against each other?

You mean boss enemies? Or simply hostile races?

I will not name gamers here as NPC in-game. I'm interested in the plot only <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - so, names are unimportant for me. I do NOT want to be in the game - or to be exact, I'd prefer Kiya to remain dead, as done in BD.

Verdistis: one of the nobles there - as I wish a house for the Verdistis char. As a noble, he will have a small army - and this is quest the V char will have to solve alone, as it is Act 1.
I'm thinking of a spy in Verdistis, a spy of the Black Ring members, so they are always a step ahead of both chars. As this spy will be in the assassin merchant guild of Penumbra, uncovering this boss enemy will come after both chars met and are able to gather info. Maybe even a very helpful NPC, preferably one that is very sympathetic... maybe even Penumbra herself? In any case, not easy to detect at once for the gamer. Or Corinna? She'd do anything to learn new spells, gain knowledge.

Warrior guild this will be the main combat oriented part of Act 1, as the WG char has to develop combat skills - and the Order is corrupt, in a power vacuum. So, I'm thinking of powerful paladins, the WG char has to besiege (not kill), as they want to be convinced their new recruiter is a good match. AND! In this case, a clear warning => each pallie you kill is lost for a later army... evil, hm? Hehe. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> So, these NPC have no protection and may be killed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - The Divine One is gone, as I said: Damian killed him successfully. And the char will have to find out candidates for the new leader (an unknown NPC) - several are there. And all offer the new recruiter a goody - he has to choose. The others will be pallies in the army then after getting defeated. Maybe one of them is a bad loser? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Black Ring members - I hope, I will have the opportunity to kill Damian - I hate being fooled - and I wish for a fight alone with him - as in BD. In order to get him, the pallies and maybe a few recruited assassins (WG/V char people) have to battle his cronies. But the fight has to be done by only ONE of the chars - and pretty late in the game. Damian will have clerics with a stun spell, his witches, elementals - in fact all summoned we know from BD in the end battle. I'm sure, some gamers would like a small group of Necromancers as enemies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

Merchants not wanting to join the Verdistis assassin merchant guild They should remain as traders - but they have money, right? A lot of money - so, some will side up with the Black Ring and ask for support, others will recruit whatever/whereever (dragon riders?). Will hunt both chars.

Elves would be no trouble to find one arrogant elf feeling superior to both chars. I'm thinking of the stink-boot => Daddy-in-Law. Gee, I'd love to have kicked him. He would be hostile if one char is human only, ok?

Dwarves believe money and gold is theirs, by right, birth etc. They will dislike the V char highly. A dwarf does not like to be robbed, hm? They're no friends of free trade and open purses, but killing one will result in a racial war. The WG char will have to intervene.

Lizards they are the mage teachers. So, some might not be willing to part with their knowledge freely - a clear case for assassination <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> or... threatening them. Kidnapping? Stealing a power artifact, to keep those at bay? Hmmmmm, kidnapping a familiar! And having this as an NPC in the party. Will only work after one char has got the ability to command a familiar. They might look with disdain upon a WG char => fighting is inferior to high skilled and elegant magic.

Orcs have been tricked once by the Black Ring members. Therefore, they will only participate with the WG char - as they believe in weapons/honour etc - ye know, the good old bashing virtues for a higher cause. The V char is suspicious to them - one orc will be on the hunt then - a powerful one, not just an Elite.

Humans oh, there is a variety IMO. What about Ygerna's Daddy? Or Mommy? Brother/sis? One in the poor quarters, sick of being pushed around by all these nobles, warriors and assassins? Jonath? Yeah, why not? A freedom rebel with a slight communistic touch.

Raanaar Hm, I'd not like it if the poor Raanaar are involved in this mess again. Remember? Only 3 are alive besides the rebels, right? Anlokam, Raanaar prisoner of Act 3 and mirror Prisoner of Act 4. Hmmmmm, maybe Anlokam has a daughter, or twins (yes, equal rights)? But what would be their motive? Damian is gone, demons are driven back, why should they intervene? IMO, they should have the nose full of humans and their petty fights. Not made up my mind yet.

Imps - these thieving little scoundrels should like the V char very much and they live in the Wastelands, so why not a small group in Aleroth as a trading post? One is an enemy, cause it wants that familiar - why? Well, the lizards like dragon familiars. And this sweet tiny dragon is nicer to ride than a spider. I'm thinking of an imp skilled in stealing. Getting the dragon back would result in lasso skills? No clue.

Creatures - I missed large birds as enemies. Those being able to clutch a char and fly off into the nest. BTW, an intelligent bird, so chatting it out of becoming dinner might be fun. Char A is kidnapped, char B has to find something and exchange it for char A. This would be a time-related quest, as the young birds are hungry <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
giant snakes, being able to suffocate you - their skin is good for special armour
giant bees, wasps - guess, Buad's Tea go out of control there due to experiments an alchemist made
Hell hounds used by spies/agents of the Black Ring to track down
Rabies squirrels and foxes in the Dark Forest
The undead, ghosts, zombies etc., they respawn and respawn, are only killed forever if you find the correct skill/weapon to behead them and deposit the skulls in a safe place.
wraiths hoard treasure, but are powerful with their sleep/paralyse/poison spells

Enough? As I said, names are not important to me.
Kiya

@ morbo -> well guilds i believe can still play a vital role in DD2 though ultimately how much it can affect the character(s) & main plot will have to be larians' decision. as for disguises, well that's where charisma-related skills can play at its most relevance. imagine u're already a member of say assasins guild & wanted to infiltrate the thieves guild, which happens to be the opposing guild. u can make use of diplomacy/charisma skills to get yourself through without raising alarms or suspicions. much like the idea of Arch-Priest who's at the same time Chairman.

@ kiya -> that's impressive lineup with racial emphasis! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> u know, the way i see it, the whole faction thing can be summed up using venn's diagram. that means one can belong to a faction, a race, & a guild all at the same time.

will post more on this. i have something to do now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />