Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) The Argumentative Git thread

Agreed.

I wondered how long it would take until you turned into a spamming idiot Ubereil. Kiya, Jang and MG made considerable efforts in their posts to raise their points and you contributed nothing. Choose a proper winner and stop acting like a jerk. I WILL come down on you like a ton of bricks if you don't stop this immature gibbering. You ain't funny. Cleglaw was funny, you ain't.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

I adore and love dwarves <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />
Kiya <drooling>

Kiya: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />

People may be confused why you keep calling me a dwarf though if they don't know my history. I'll change my avvi just to make things clearer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Ouch - apart from the DI story - I thought your jumping beans ava is a dwarf? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I always saw it as a dwarf. What is it, please?

Kiya <crawling under the next stone and determined not to come up in the next 100 yrs>

Beats me. It was the leaping thing from the Arreat summit webpage. (Blizzard's official D2 site)
I like this one though and use it for posting on the NWN forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

So come out from under yonder rock Kiya. Let dwarf and drow be united! (or have a fight, whatever. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> )

Last <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> => ok, here's a nice Rimmer, spiced up with Buad's Tea - a votre santé <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

I like the other ava very much BTW, when I see it, I often imagine a victim's head between the clapping hands. We have a German phrase => providing a person with a set of hot ears <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

i like your new/old avatar, womble
i like your new sig (maybe because i'm not american and because i like oscar wilde)
and thanks for what you said to the young one (ub...)!

edit: i'm sure you will be very unhappy with this liking list and thanks so it is one of the reasons i wrote this... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />
the other is it is true!

Allright, enough praise! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohh.gif" alt="" />

Lets argue about something! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

What has Cleglaw done that I haven't? (mutter mutter mutter) BTW are you saying that if Cleglaw had done this it would have been funny? (mutter mutter mutter) Anywhay, since no one fell for my bluff (it was really mean of you to not even pretend you did) I think it's time to announce the real winner:

Spick, since he had all the great arguments! ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />)No whait, he didn't have all the good arguments... Erm, let's pick another:

Kiya! Congratulations! You win because not only because you had all the good arguments, but allso because you brought them up the best way (Kris had basicly the same arguments, but didn't announce them as good as you). Janggut came quite good at the end but 1/ He wasn't as good as Kiya 2/ He just won (the one before mine) 3/ his topic suc... wasn't good enought. So Kiya, pick a good topic now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />!

Übereil

<clinging to her stone desperately>

Thank you very much, Übereil - but I miss a lot, because I lack debate tradition. You see, I didn't even understand Cleglaw's technique <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" /> . I've been puzzling about this all the time. You all knew, what he did, but I didn't. I never had debating at school, I'm only used to express my opinion.

Couldn't you pick one of those knowing what they're doing, please? And before that => explain to me how Cleglaw's method is called?
Kiya

Edit: There! Now you can all laugh at me - because I lack knowledge <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Kiya, I don't even know if I can quantify Cleglaw's method. Sometimes its a bit surreal, sometimes deadpan (saying a joke with a straight face) and other times just downright odd. Its just funny that's all! (So hard to explain!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good choice Ubereil. I never deny a flame when I make one. Consider that a warning shot.
Also, it takes a lot of knowledge of english to make jokes with wit and style so my only advice to you is keep practicing! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Hm, I'm stubborn, Womble - you called Cleg's technique => "contradiction". So, this was not the case? I thought it was "irrational argument" - as mentioned in Kris' entree.

Please, I want Übereil to take someone else - there are obviously "debate rules" - and you learn(ed) them at school, right? And I'm trying to understand these "rules" by the way you all post - topic is irrevelant for me. I want to understand the methods - one I understood so far => explaining one's choice is vital. But that's all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> - so, I couldn't even decide afterwards. And according to the rules I have to decide.

Please, Übereil? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />
Kiya <deciding to settle down for a nice 150 years under her stone>

And NO! I'm not arguing this as a new topic - I ... <whattheheck> - ok, new topic:

[color:"yellow"]Why is adolescent behaviour so difficult for adults? And why is adult behaviour so inacceptable for adolescents? What are similarities, what is contradictory?[/color]

Nice... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

As I get older Adolescent behaviour just gets stranger and stranger to me. I've come to the conclusion that its the generation you come from that moulds you into who you are. If you were to put me, 17 in with a bunch of today's 17 year-olds I think I would still feel different. Then again I've always been old beyond my years (for most situations) and terribly naive at other times. So I'm just odd basically.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, the time you grow up in has a great effect on you IMO. When you say to yourself 'God I'm getting old!' you have little or no chance of understanding today's kids.

I have said it many times in the past few years.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Kiya, I know just as much as you about how to argue. I know nothing about any rules. And to the topic:

Adolecence means youth (roughly), right? Then I think it is because of groth, basicly. We grew up in different times, with different things being normal (like TV, my parents didn't grew up with a TV). A lot of things have changed, the view of different things have changed (like the view on homosexuallity, or sex in particular.). So we youths have grown up with different things being normal. And since humans strives for evolution, we don't do what our parents did, we try new things that our parents haven't tied because of lack of time/currage/lack of interligence. And, form time to time, we do something our parents don't understand because we grew up with different valuations and stuff (I'm seventeen, remember?). We don't whant to relive our parents youthculture, because we whant to be inderpendent, and by that probe that we, too, is worthy humans (what word to use? We're young, and we're busy trying new things, so we don't have time to reflect too much).

Übereil

PS if you didn't understand something I wrote, just ask, and I will PM you a simply not understandable explenation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> DS

Now that's the adolescent rhetoric I was looking for!

Ubereil: Do you honestly believe you're doing everything different from your parents?!
Of course you do. I used to when I was your age. Stupid question...

There's no way I can make people like you and probably Lews believe me but you go to school, go to college, get a job then grow up, like...instantly! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Soon you're worrying more about paying a fricking mortgage than saving/changing the world. You're main concern is traffic on the commute route home, or what's on TV tonight. Its scary man!

Let me know in 10 years if you still think you're so different from your parents in what you are doing, how your life is shaping up etc. I bet it really won't be that different from how they grew up. Ask them even, you can talk to them, they are human beings.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It ain't so bad learning from them really.

Hey why do I get dragged into things? I'm the mature one, right? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Cleglaw began arguing in this thread by mimicking a well known (in English speaking countries) comedy sketch from a show called Monty Python's Flying Circus. It's many years old now, but it had a sketch about arguing. The basis of it was that a client could pay to have an argument. In the sketch, the two people never actually picked a topic, they just spent the whole time arguing about whether they were really arguing or not! What Cleglaw was doing would mean nothing if you hadn't seen the original joke. What he did was an accurate copy/parody of the original - even repeating many of the original lines. What we would call an "in" joke. I.e only funny to those who were "in" on the background. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

After that, he kept the style up a bit perhaps. I guess we might call that "deadpan" humour. It's a bit hard to explain, but it's a sort of mock seriousness. Sorry if that explanation is a bit weak, but humour is so hard to explain, and varies from person to person and culture to culture.

Übereil, I deal with youths (14+) every day in my library.

An adolescent (if she/he is lucky) is in this stage for 7 yrs (so says psychology) - so, you have 1 adolescence. But I have to deal with adolescent behaviour since 23 years. Faces change, but behaviour is the same. Can you imagine how boring this is for me? These, oh so unique... for 23 yrs, unique, unique, unique <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

I can only judge German youths ok? Well, in my time it was important to wear a certain fashion (boots, parka, long hair etc.) - the youths now wear their fashion => where's the difference? None IMO. Both youth generations determined that they belonged to a group - a group differing from the adults. C'est tout.

We had our sit-ins, demonstrations, political interests - youths nowadays have their interests. Where's the difference? None IMO. Both youth generations determined they belonged to a group - a group differing from the adults. C'est tout.

We wanted our rights, our independence from those old krauters who knew nothing about life (only we did, right? Because we were soooooo unique) Where's the difference? Both youth generations determined they belonged to a group - a group differing from the adults. C'est tout.

Oh, yes, we were veryvery busy trying out new stuff - and the only new about this was => it had to be different from what our parents did - as WE had to invent the wheel again. Errhm... get the message?

I don't know how old your parents are. I'm 48, we knew and propagated free love (it was before AIDS), we fought for gay rights, women's lib, fought against the Vietnam war, cruise missiles etc. etc. Our music was totally different from the oldies (hard rock time in the 70es <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) - get the message here again?

I say => everything repeats. So, development is not unique - it's the same old boring cycle. Gee, even the ancient Romans complained about the youngsters at that time - I wish, I could find Cicero's quotation in this to explain.

Yeah, of course, you young people now have to find your own way, find your position in life, your individuality - granted, fully granted. Same as we did in our times before we suddenly crossed an invisible line and found ourselves in graves, dug by the next generation <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

I double up with laughter, when I see bell bottoms and hipsters again (how unique, we wore that in the 70es) - mini skirts (wow, didn't Mary Quant invent that in the 60es?) - errhm, yeah, I forgot evolution here, right?

Yeah, we were great in demanding rights (as we were adults... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> ) and when it came to responsibility and consequences, we wanted the kid nest again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> - see? Nothing is unique, just the same chain...

Yeah, our parents lacked time/courage/intelligence as well - of course they did! And why? They had never been young, they crawled out of an egg and woke up as old adults <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

I think some adults have forgotten their youth - and I believe this as well => some youths are blind. Can you imagine how boring it is for me to see same old wheel being invented for 23 yrs now?
Kiya

PS: thanks for explaining, Kris <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> . I certainly know the Monty Pythons - but more the movies and then in German - ARGH! So I missed the joke - same with Douglas Adams: I never get the quotations as a running joke, cause I only know the German translation.

Good topic... as was the last (for which I had really nothing useful to contribute, and no time in which post it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> ). That is also the case here (nothing useful to contribute), but a bit more time now!

The only problem I see is that adolescents have a hard time believing that we old folks were once young... and many of us old folks cannot remember being young, either... or perhaps it's more accurate to say that we prefer to forget the more "interesting" bits <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> .

We've all been through the wonder, the confusion, the excitement, the anger, the sense of injustice, the sense of discovery, the feelings of betrayal, the certainty of having all the answers, the discouragement from being dismissed as "just a kid", the delight when an elder actually listens, the frustration at being "controlled", the sense of immortality, the desire to do it All Right Now!... The world is new when you're young. It gets old fast, which is a pity!

But then we grow up, and, perhaps embarrassed by our own youthful ignorance and folly, push them aside and solemnly play the role of "Adult", even though we may have more Experience than we do Wisdom. It should flow -- youth into age --, not be like slamming a door and moving into the next room... (and did I mention that some of us old folks tend to babble... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />)

@ kris -> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> very good explanation. do please give kiya more credit, will u? her intelligence is more than what it seems most of the time. & u're right, different culture has different style of jokes. as for me, i always like to play the fool, though sadly most can't see beyond my acted silliness as i always throw in thoughts wrapped in wit. but then maybe i'm not as smart as i like myself to be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

kiya, as far as i can recall, there isn't any rule established for this argumentative thread & no set method or style of argument is mentioned. it's almost free-for-all. so go ahead & argue! don't u argue with me! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

anyway, back on topic;

Why is adolescent behaviour so difficult for adults? And why is adult behaviour so inacceptable for adolescents? What are similarities, what is contradictory?

adolescence is a period of discovery. & change. hence volatile time for both adolescents & adults. where young children develop at fast pace in rudimentary skills, adolescents shift gear to higher levels & so encounter higher levels of complications that go with it. where adults are confused by adolescent behaviour, adolescents themselves, no matter how assured or otherwise, are clueless. personally i feel adolescents are no more confusing that adults. i have worked with both & adolescents are much like monkeys with re-wired brains; they're learning to deal with enhancements given by life. of course, different monkey , different problem.

looking at my adolescent past, i can recall many stupid senseless things done. most of them are inexplicable & i can sum it all up to these; adaptation & experimentation. hormones do not help at all. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

vice versa; adolescents don't understand adults as they cannot fathom the experience, the lessons adults learnt & the mindset formed after going through all that. adults (pipsqueaks, take note) are less judgemental, less critical, less hung-up over things which may be of utmost importance to adolescents. as we grow, priorities shift & what was important may no longer be while others may take precedence. but then there are exceptions. there are a number of adults who defy logic.

this subject is very very complex, i feel, & there can be no argument that can hold water so as to which group is more confusing. that is my opinion. & it all depend on the person him/her self. is language more confusing than math? or is it vice versa?

kiya, this is very thought provoking (not to mention the issue is very complex) & my head is starting to hurt. i think i'll just give up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

have fun, the rest of u gits! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />