Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) The Argumentative Git thread

Hmm - clearly I’m five laps down and driving an Austin 7, with not much hope of catching Womble’s Ferrari. But perhaps I can cause him to make a mistake and crash into the barrier next time he comes round. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

I rather suspect that taking on Womble will be writing my own death sentance… um.. santence... er.. sentence… but I’m just going to have to risk it… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

What did he pick – Starcraft – well there’s a potential oil slick on the track for a start. I’ve never played Starcraft, and as I’ve been playing computer games for at least 150 years and have played all the coolest games, then Starcraft can’t possibly be the coolest game of all time…. Whereas I picked ..um .. what was it now …. Baldur’s Gate…. Aah… OK.. that was clearly a typing error..

What I meant was Far Cry – yes, Far Cry – fast, furious, plenty of genuine brown trouser moments, not all of it blatantly copied Half Life, splendid jungle graphics, and some fun moments running down monsters in jeeps and jumping over lava streams that brought tears of laughter to my eyes. Also AI that was almost believable at times – particularly the time that I opened the door of a hut I’d already checked once and found some enemy grunt RIGHT IN MY FACE. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> It’s not often that a game causes me to squeal like a schoolgirl with a rat in her hair and requires me to be scraped off the ceiling with a plastering trowel… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohh.gif" alt="" />

Discovering that one of the most irritating bosses in the game could be killed quite easily by shooting him in the nuts instead of the head, that was good too… <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> Well, OK not quite ‘discovering’, more like reading it on a forum and then finding out it was true. Yes, lots of amazingly cool moments in Far Cry, and a worthy winner of Coolest computer game of all time.

Am I on the same lap yet? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Nice try mate, but I didn't notice any passing moves by the Austin 7. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You might be getting too old to pick a winner here. I bet when you saw the question about the coolest game you wondered why Koz was asking about the temperature of software. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> And if you consulted your ancient dictionary you might have found (and this is a genuine quote from my own dictionary definition of 'cool'): "calm, free from excitement". Now I can see why you nominated Baldur's Gate. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

I think that when I jog Koz's memory about the many features of Planescape Torment - such as the Brothel for Slaking of Intellectual Lusts, Morte the wisecracking skull, the grisly quests of the Nameless One, and the unrepeatable opportunity to image Sheena Easton decked out in Annah's outfits (the ones that seemed to have come straight out of a B&D fantasy) then we will see the PT McLaren swoop through to take the chequered flag. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Nothing is cooler than the Mortuary slab in PT.... cool as the grave... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

And maybe Womble has some hidden secrets? For instance, where did that splendid avatar come from? Not Starcraft I fancy. It looks vaguely familiar, like it's been lifted from a Bioware or BlackIsle game.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> could he be a closet Baldur's Gate lover, just masquerading as a Starcraft fan......

so in 2 or in 50 words this is not an argument but a low personal attack...
anyway not without brightness i have to admit it... you are eluding the point i've made... your statement was false as i can find a counter-example.


... all games are time consuming. well maybe you would rather like a game playable in 10 minutes... i can recommand you real good tetris-like things if you want...



sure sharpen and Sky hammer spells are doing the same thing! please wear your glasses when seeing damages on screen hmm?



unsupported argument... where are you trying to clarify it... please?



stop praising yourshelf womble!
especially because Koz is not the more impartial judge as he is blind to all that he doesn't want to see about BD anything except his own opinion...



nothing more normal as Diablo 2 as no other interest than arguing how it is the worst game of all history even worst than morrowind...



are you trying to intimidate me... bad strategy as i'm immunate to shame...

I don't want to get long winded here so I'm just going to give a bullet statement for everyone of these games I've played or I'm currently playing.

7th Guest * It was okay. The last puzzle was ridiculous.
9: The Last Resort * Again, just okay, but I liked it.
11th Hour * Did not like it at all.
Amber: Journeys Beyond * One of my all time favorites.
AMERZONE * Good ideas, but just didn't cut it with me.
Baldur’s Gate * What can I say...LOVED IT!!!
Baldur’s Gate: Tales of the Swordcoast * The add on was a lot of fun, but difficult for me.
Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn * Loved every bit of it.
Baldur’s Gate II: Throne of Bhaal * It was okay. Wasn't as good as the TotSC expansion for BG.
BEYOND ATLANTIS * Hold my nose. Stinkeroo!!! The puzzles are all Anal.
BEYOND ATLANTIS II * A slight redemption of the first Beyond Atlantis.
Beyond Divinity * Still currently playing and I like it, but I like DD better.
BEYOND TIME * This was a fun game. Straight forward kind of game.
Black Dahlia * A very good game, too bad it remained a sleeper.
Blackstone Chronicles * Made me sad for the insane back in those days.
CAMERON FILES Secret at Loch Ness * Enjoyed it a lot, but will never replay it.
Clue Chronicles: Fatal Illusion * It was a simple fun game.
CRYSTAL KEY * Great concept, but didn't capture me.
Divine Divinity * Love it, Love it, Love it!!!!
Egypt 1156 B.C. * Good game, but needed a hot zone display.
Golden Gate * This was a very, very good game.
Grim Fandango * Had a lot of fun. Loved Mannie!
Icewind Dale * Liked it, but would never play it again.
Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter * Made the game a little better.
Icewind Dale: Trials of the Luremaster * Also made the game a little better.
Icewind Dale II * By far the hardest RPG I ever played. I don't think like that.
Jewels of the Oracle * Very good puzzle game. I still don't get some of the puzzles.
Journeyman Project 1 * All I can say is WOW!!! Play it.
Journeyman Project 2: Buried in Time * Fun, but the first one was better.
Journeyman Project 3: Legacy of Time * Most people didn't like this one, but I liked it the best out of the three.
LIGHTBRINGER * Good Grief!!! Can you get more ANAL!!! This game is stupid!
Lighthouse * Stop with the dialog already!!! Just say it and let me move on!!!
Morrowind * Great work, but an extremely boring game to me.
Morrowind: Tribunal * Great work, but an extremely boring game to me.
Morrowind: Bloodmoon * Great work, but an extremely boring game to me.
Mummy: Tomb of the Pharaoh * Fun, but will never play again.
Myst * I love Myst. To me all of the puzzles were easy.
Myst: Riven * Same review as Myst.
Myst: Exile * By far the best of the three in my eyes.
MYSTERIOUS JOURNEY - Schizm * Good ideas, but very stupid game. Not all of us are geometry and trigonometry engineers.
Mystery of the Nautilus * Started off great then started to stink more and more.
NANCY DREW Ghost Dogs * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
NANCY DREW The Scarlet Hand * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
NANCY DREW The Final Scene * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
NANCY DREW Message in a Haunted Mansion * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
NANCY DREW Secrets Can Kill * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
NANCY DREW Stay Tuned for Danger * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
NANCY DREW Treasure in the Royal Tower * All of the Nancy Drew games I loved.
Neverwinter Nights * Great game, but started to get bored by chapter 3.
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of the Undertide * Very, very good, hard, but good.
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark * I loved this expansion the best of all!
ODYSSEY The Search for Ulysses * Was okay, but hated the fact you had to have a walkthrough in order to play it.
OMEGA STONE * Oh so anal!!! You practically had to learn the Mayan language to play it.
Quest for Karma * One of the best puzzle games ever.
Planescape: Torment * Good game and I liked it, but I played it too late to truely enjoy it.
Rama * Very, very good game, but you need to learn a little Octal and Hexadecimal to play it. Because the puzzles are Octal and Hexadecimal puzzles.
Reah * STINKER!!!
RIDDLE OF THE SPHINX * Very good game!!!
Riddle of Master Lu * This was oh so stupid and the puzzle ridiculous.
SACRED AMULET * Oh I fell asleep.
Sentinel Returns * I still don't understand this game.
SEVEN GAMES OF THE SOUL * Okay, had some good moments.
Shivers * My Favorite of all of these games.
Shivers II: Harvest of Souls * Also, my Favorite of all of these games.
Soulbringer * A real good RPG, it's to bad it's still a sleeper.
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic * Oh this game was fantastic!!!
SYBERIA * Very good adventure game.
Temple of Elemental Evil * Great game, but stunk due to being toned down for children.
THE NEW ADVENTURES OF THE TIME MACHINE * Good game, but the controls to hard to deal with.
Timelaps * This game just ticked me off. I felt like using it as a Frisbee.
TIMESCAPE Journey to Pompeii * Fun game, but had me stumped in some parts.
Titanic: Adventure out of Time * Very good game. A must buy for adventure games.
Toonstruck * This game had me laughing so hard. It was great and Hilarious!
Torin's Passage * A lot of fun.
Wizardry 8 * Currently playing it.
Zork: Return to Zork * Very funny and hard for me.
Zork: Grand Inquisitor * I did not like this one.
Zork: Nemesis * I didn't like this one neither.

That is it in a nut shell. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Kyra_Ny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

great work, kyra <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

absolutly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> but great work all the same...

Hey!!!

Maybe I didn't want to get all long winded like Womble!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

Kyra_Ny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

Cool, a lot of posts here. People are still doing the same thing though which is the mistake that I made initially. You're all talking about the games you like, not what had great universal appeal, fantastic sales, changed internet gaming and interaction.

I may not like Baldur's gate but I'd certainly rank it up there as a well-designed and popular game. It also lead to enjoyable dungeon-crawl spin-offs like IWD. So basically, yes it is a great, an RPG legend in its own time.

I see Starcraft(SC) as the launch of the 'blizzard phenomenon'. Diablo tried but was hacked to pieces in months. Besides, more people like RTS games IMO. Warcraft came and went but there seemed to be this explosive activity around the world to SC. Internet cafe's seethed with geeks annihilating each other's armies! In Korea fanatics would play so long they died from exhaustion! Has any other game inspired that? Tournaments sprang up around the globe! SC was becoming the new god whose alter we would sacrifice ourselves upon!

So Blizzard became a world-leading game giant. What are they doing now? Pay-per-month RPG's. Bleh! Oh well.

Anyway, onto MG's post:



Go for it! I loved tetris!
Missing the point a bit. If you don't enjoy pointless parts of a game, it becomes a pain to do it, therefore time-consuming. A good game can take 30mins or 10 hours.(some games of monopoly for example) The point is you enjoy it when you're doing it and never notice time slipping by. This is becoming a matter of personal opinion again though.



Uh-huh. Not comparing sharpen and sky hammer I'm afraid. Why would I compare 2 obviuously different skills?
Overtly similar skills: for example, why do we need proficiency in short sword and short sword+shield? If you use a shield with any other weapon you're screwed! Just basic shield proficiency is good.

All of the D+D based games use a fine system. A character can hit things without 5 points in a skill. His ability to attack rises with his level. As do lots of other things. BD has a fair attempt at this but overcomplicates it. DD did just fine.



Er... He gave me the compliment. I merely accepted it.
Aren't we all blind to anything but our own opinion? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />



Ummm yeah.... I've seen people write complete articles on character builds. The game is simple sure but the system behind it is quite subtly complex. Try building a good character to solo through hell difficulty. It requires a lot of thought.
The worst game in history? Personal opinion again. Millions in sales and a hugely successful free gaming community may say otherwise however. A lot will disagree with this, even more will wonder which planet you're on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



This is simply good advice matey. I've eaten humble pie many, many times.

Okay, I bow out to the almight Womble. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Kyra_Ny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

You've sure played a lot though Kyra... Yikes! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

What can I say... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> ... I like PC games. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />

And just think...I never mentioned the ones I borrowed.
Those are just the ones I bought. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Kyra_Ny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

IWD2 was hard? Odd, I went back to IWD after the sequel and was totally confused by it.
Guess I'm a fan of the v3.0 to 3.5 rules now... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> I'm one of those must solve all quests if possible players and I didn't have enough persuade skill and I didn't have a Monk in my party to get what's her name further in the monastery.

Those blasted Monk Tests!!!
I would have never in a million years realized I needed to stand on those color circles to get a temporary immunity to some of those attacks.

Oh, and those Battle Squares!!!
What! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
All I kept on hearing was, "My weapon has no effect!!!"
Or whatever they said to that effect.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IWDII was a BEAST for me!

Kyra_Ny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

it probably won't surprise anyone but i don't...



i agree and though i disagree... first statement is true... about universal appeal and fantastic sales... well the number of the sales has little to do with the objective quality of a produce whatever it is... universal appeal may be an overrated thing too... as it may be create about nothing worth with little means...


well if you're looking for an universal factor of enjoyment in a game... it will be always a matter of opinion and not of argument... so i think you are not taking the good end with the user's view... it should be judged by the way you can identify yourshelf with the hero... as more objectives things can be found there... (and with tetris... though i loved it too, it's a bit hard)...




hmm... i don't believe much in a basic shield proficiency... as it is not the same thing to wear a shield with a short sword than with a spear for example... you're not allowed to the same moves... again that is some kind of life principles...

... far too mechanicaly in many cases...



yep, sure, i've seen people write complete articles about even more useless things



<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

but i don't think it's so a personnal opinion to say that D2 had no storyline... quests that were actually all the same and a very crapy combat system... supporting that will be very long and a bit <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> though...

MG, maybe someone have said it (since when I come home there's like 20 new arguments, I don't have the energy to read everyone) but Wombles avatar is a Neverwinter Night picture (know it sincve I'm playing NWN for the moment...).

Übereil

and so then?

And so then you know. Since you wondered. Thnaks for makeing me feel like a fool btw. It's a feeling I never feel so it might help in geving me humblenes (something I lack severely of).

Übereil

It can be in some cases. Like why is Budwieser so popular? Its not even real beer! They make it from rice so it all tastes the same. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I think its mainly because I saw many, many intelligent and dumb people at the same time addicted to SC. People who'd never played an RTS before, people who didn't even play computer games cut their teeth on this.
I'd say its appeal is pretty universal. I've never met many people who are into computer games, played SC and not enjoyed it immensely. Saying that the RPG crowd seems to be very different from the rest. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> (me included)



So I guess we can conclude enjoyment is a matter of opinion and is subjective to personal experience.
As for tetris I knew a guy who played so much he would regularly beat the game on the hardest speed and difficulty! Ahhh gameboys... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



Well I agree to a point. However, shield proficiency could be a broad-ranged skill to cover its use with one-handed weapons. The romans could use tower shields with Pilums (spears) and short swords for example. Its still realistic and cuts out the need for all the wasted skillpoints used in specialising in 2 weapons.



It is a personal opinion. IMO the cutscene movies were very good in D2 and they laid down a story. I thought it told the tale well.

At the same time, D2 is one of the most linear games I've ever played. Shure, there are linear rpg:s but at least them make you FEEL like you affect the story (Arcanum being a great example). And there are no real problems in D2, and the small problems there is is solved with Violence as only alternative.

Übereil

i never wondered. i just said that i like his avatar... some kind of confusion here... but sorry to make you feel like a fool... that was not really nice of me true enough <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sad.gif" alt="" />

Isn't it great when both of us misunderstand the other? This way we can be confused together (if shared joy means double joy, then ther should be the same thing with confusion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />... erm I mean <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/down.gif" alt="" />)

Übereil