Larian Studios Forums General Chat Cultural Differences

Cultural differences

This should become a new thread about cultural differences.

This should not become a discussion whether something is right or wrong ,

but rather a discussion designated to point out on these differences, for a better understanding.

As an example, I begin.


The U.S. „Nipplegate“ scandal was for us Germans unbelievable. I mean, to make a scndal of a natural body part is incredible here in Germany. It was as if „they“ made a scandal out of the incident that someone had put off aglove from his/her hand.

This is different in the point of view whether body part are offensive or not.

Of course people re not allowed to run around naked in publicity; I think that is quite „normaL2 (what is „normality“ anyway ?) , but putting off the upper clothes in the heat of a summer’s day on a lawn is not considered offensive. And I mean both women and men. Of course some people find it rather „offensive“ than others, especiallyolder ones, but the overall border is relatively low.

This has a decent historical development . In the late 80s (I think), TV was privatised. The priivate, commercial TV stations / companied showed rather „erotic“ movies in late night sections, something the non-private TV stations hadn’t done before. Personally, I believe that this led to an erosion of the above mentioned „border“, leading to a society that isn’t felt offensive as much as before.

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I once read an article in a newspaperwhich absolutely shocked me. That was 10 or more years ago, but I still get angry about that. Another cultural difference.

It was about a person who shot an asian student. As it appeared in the article, the student had asked for something, going towards the door of a house. A man (inhabitant or owner of that house) appeared, with a gun in his hand. He suspected an anfriendly studend, and shouted „freeze!“. The studend did not understand, stepped towards the house, and was shot.

What made me angry (and makesme angry right now) was the fact that this man was NOT punished. He defended himself by saying that he suspected an attack or something, and got free.

The article wrote the theory that the student might have unserstood „please ?“ instead of „freeze !“ , so that he stepped further towards the house to explain what he had in mind.

What me as a German strikes me, are several points

- a man was shooting a person and was not punished
- he was allowed to openly carry a weapon
- he felt he should or could defend himself by shooting.

To make clear what’s so „offensicve“ about it, I’ll explain :

- In Germany, people are [b9not[/b] allowed tro openly wear weapons !
- people are not allowed to defend themelves by shooting, except in *extreme* cases
- people who are allowed to wear weapons are - compared to the whole public - a selected few.

This number of „selected few“ needs further explanation : These are :

- policepersons
- security people (sometimes)
- deer-hunters
- in general people ho have a special license to wear a weapon.
Unlike the U.S. it is not generally allowed to have a weapon in possession. To do so, you must go to the police and ask for a license, a special document - kind of a passport - giving you the right to wear a weapon.

The implicite result of this is : Everyone who wears a weapon is a criminal.. Or at least has a weapon illegally in possession, which can be punished, too.

So, from a German point of view, the man from the news article was either
- a criminal
- had the wepon illegally
- was crazy
- this was pure, unpunished murder.

That’s just the German point of view of this incident.

The Massacre of Erfurt was uch a great tragedy, because people are not allowed to bear wepons - and escpecially not pupils. Because of that, the person who did the massacre had his wepon(s) illegally, and thus the massacre was not allowed, technically speaking. For a society not use to violence as a means to „solve problems“, such a masacre is s double heavy tragedy.

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Compared to other countries, Germans are rather „cold“, „the country of poets and thinkers“, where the amount of „thinkers“ is rather high. Germans are - at least from myoverall point of view - rather thinking, logical, rational, materialistic. Express of emotions is not widely known, compared to e.g. Italy.

Children are treated in a different way than I’ve heard it from Italy, for example. When a couple is together, they rather tend to consider a child as a matter of cost than to the enrichment of life that it really is. That is just my impression, and I’m not sure whether my impression iscorrect or not, but I recently saw a caricature in a local newspaper expressing just that.

I suspect that the German treatment of children could be fairly offensive to people from e.g. Italy, because many (especially older) people (mainly in towns, guess) consider children as noise-making, dirt-making, cause of trouble, unfriendly, etc. . I have read of people being unfriendly themselves towards children just because of that. This might appear as offensive towards members of different cultures where children are simply loved because they are children (simple as that). Children are different , imho, not to compare with adults.

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Okay, now I’ve written down what I (personally) see as differences between Germany and „therest of the world“.

Now you are the ones to post !

Alrik.

conversations about the weather...

british thinks it is some great part of the social links, french thinks it is a loss of time...

maybe this difference is a remembrance of medieval wars <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

well between UK and france there are still not finished as it is well known <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Thin ice that, Alrik - very thin ice!

Your examples are (IMO!) not entirely true for Germany, nor are they generally true for the USA.

Cultural differences do exist - I do not deny that, but to generalise cultural traditions over entire nations - <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" />. Especially for nations that developped as a mixture from various cultures and historic influences this is simplifying it too much. And such simplifications are the field where prejudices grow - again, IMHO.

Your intent is a noble one, Alrik - I presume. But, this is not the way to foster understanding.

Do I know a better one? - ...

Tolerance maybe - let's not cement the differences by pointing fingers and taking names - let's tolerate and respect them as individual, and alternative, views of the world.

GlanceALot >

Yes, I agree, I know this thread was created for very honorable reasons, but even one of my closest friends and I in the same country have problems seeing eye to eye on things.
We both mean no ill will toward each other, but we sure do misinterpret each other almost all of the time.
I was worried the same might happen here.
Everyone would intend only good, but somehow an unintentional monster would arise.

Tsel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i disagree...

we had even more sensitive discussions here before... and not so long ago

on a light or on a serious or alternating both way...

the monster is not born... well err maybe me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" /> but that's another kind of trouble...

if we begin to criticize all threads this chat section could be just closed or renamed "comment the weather" section

IMHO said

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />
MASTER_GUROTH >

It's sunny and warm where I am at right now.
How about you?

Tsel <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

What!?! You've got sun?!? (But here it's winter, and I havn't seen the sun in ages <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />...) Wha, well, erm... I HATE YOU!!!

Übereil (it's not ALL a lie you know...)

I agree with Master Guroth, and with GlanceALot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Ok, let me explain.
Glance is right if he say we cannot see the most differents as an problem of Nations.

But MG has right if he say we have to discussion those things.
Maybe we are not knowing more over the other cultures after this, but i think this can help us understand the other Forumsmember.
And after all the discussion in the other closed Threads this might be helpfull.

I do not mind a thread on cultural differences - not at all.

I do not mind such differences being pointed out in order to achieve a better understanding, as Alrik defined his intention.

I was ticked off by the generalization in the examples. The fact that in some (few!!!) states of the USA weapon laws are less restrictive than in Germany, does not allow to claim that this is "American culture" - it is just a cultural tradition in some parts of the USA. The fact that public and circumstancial nudity is a lesser scandal in the German media or society does not necessarily mean that this can be construed as German culture.

For the purpose of understanding "culture" this is too limited, too superficial.

What makes the British British (the English English, the Scottish...), The French French, The Germans German, etc.?

What makes the Europeans European - culturally, not geographically, of course; and for that matter, what makes "the American"? Is there such thing as THE "You name it"?

Before pointing out differences we should come to a common understanding of what we understand by and how we define "cultural identity" - only than can we begin to understand "differences".

Otherwise this will be a cultivation and repetition of prejudices, which, by the way also have their tradition and origin.

Why?

The answer to this question could be a clue to understanding cultural differences, could it not? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It could allways be fun to know what everybody thinks of as the genereal Swede/German/French/American etc. We'll all help in this. IF it is a good idea, maybe we could start a new thread. And let's keep a light tone, shall we?

Übereil

We can stay here and try to hold a light tone.
It is not the Thread wich is offending.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

But i agree.

But maye we should create MY thread and there hold a light tone, and then pass the more heavy topics over to THIS thread. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Übereil

glance!!! i suspect you're nothing than a nostalgic of a certain late thread <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

I agree even if i have some points to object...

unfortunately tonight my english becomes specially bad when i try to formulate them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />... will try tomorrow if what i can say has not become too Off-topic by then...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Übereil

[color:"orange"]glance!!! i suspect you're nothing than a nostalgic of a certain late thread[/color]
I confess! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> At least to some extent, but it's not the worst approach! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> But argumenting is my nature - maybe because I am German? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Well, of course there ARE differences. Of course the best way to overcome those differences is tolerance, respect and understanding. But isn't it the difference, the diversity and variety that adds flavour to our lives?

Cultural or socialogical differences do not necessarily have to be born by country-borders. We, as humans, tend to restrict and limit ourselves, and to a certain extent we all imprison our minds and close our hearts towards the strange and the unknown.

It is said that what we don't know frightens us. We strive to defeat what frightens us and long to prevail. Not always is the threat a reasonable one, and in fact it often happens that we react with aggression where we should have shown interest and understanding.

Variety is everyhwere - there is not only a difference between the manifold cultures that populate this planet, there is also a difference between the persons in one area, in one state, even in one street. Some are blonde, some are redheads, some black like the night, some male, some female, some old and some young, some educated and some workers, some happy and some sad, some liberal and some conservative, some religious and some atheist...and so on. As a matter of course we are living with these differences every day, and we do not even think about them regularily.

So, is it generalizing if we try to point out the more specific cultural aspects of our mother country? Yes, of course it is. Still I think that every country, or maybe better every region, has its own customs and cultural aspects. Not everyone in this country might live after them, not everyone might like them, but the difference still is there (and I say that without wanting to judge, just like Alrik said.)

I personally find it interesting to hear how people from other "cultural regions" handle the same things, or different ones. I think that one can learn a lot of customs not the own, and am totally convinced that a "cultural" influence from other countries, nations or regions can never be bad. I might not agree with the more common views there (and I do not agree with most of the common views here), but I get the chance to deal with the subject of...well, variety.

As much as discrimination is a bad thing, as good is an open, friendly dialogue. Therefore I don't think that keeping away your hands from every little generalization is possible - and although those topics are always built on very thin ice I am still convinced that something productive and interesting can blossom out of it.

Well, that's my two cents (and since we got the Euro they are so damn hard to find!)! *throws around some flowers for no obvious reason*
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

I have currently 2 questions in my mind :

1. Should we close this thread for being offensive ?

2. How else could we show cultural differences ?

I thought this would be good for learning, but since I don't know any other way, there wouldn't be achance for learning, I guess.

By the way, I apologize for not being able to delete my picttures, which were offensive.

Alrik.

Al, somehow we have to draw a line err... somehow (dang! i keep repeating 'somehow' somehow) on what's offensive & what's not as leaning on either extreme is very much undesirable.

imagine if we're extremely politically correct where event a hint of whatever offensive is dealt with severely. too much biting of the tongue.

but then we shouldn't be too free with our words as well. we cannot just blast off our mouths, only thinking of free speech without thinking of the repercussion.

now that's why life is interesting. it's all in the balancing! the ebb & flow of balancing the two when we tango with people from all over the world; when's best to say what & when to shut up.

this thread, personally speaking, isn't offensive because i decide not to be offended by it. those who choose to feel otherwise are free to feel that way.

this thread is good enough to show cultural differences. still, the safeword is TACT. we have to be tactful.

right. back on topic.


Cultural Differences: A Peek At Malaysia

when celebrating major holidays, especially religious-related, we often have 'open-house' which means our houses are open to anyone to come over & we will share food & drink with the visitors.

take for example, christmas. most christians will have 'open-house' & invite family & friends to come over & enjoy what food is offered. & when i say most christians, i mean it from the rich all the way to the poor. even the poor will serve guests at least some syrup drinks & home-made biscuits. those who can afford more will cook some food to be served with rice. it's like full meal served at all times. imagine having full meal at each house & u're visiting at least 10 houses in a day! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Cleglaw will run out of salt before the 15th house! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

yes, all we do is eat eat eat! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> the favourite pastime of all malaysians.

anyone can come over. even perfect strangers. we'll welcome all in. what one does is call for the house owners at the gate (should there be one) & greet them with season's greetings (merry christmas for christmas season, Gong Xi Fa Chai for Chinese New Year etc). the owners will then welcome the guests in & serve them food & drink.

celebrations normally last at least a week & for certain homes, even a month! of course it all depends on the budget as well as to whom they extend such extended welcome to.

i hear from my aunts in the US that celebrations are over in a day & often celebrated among family members with a meal & that's it. so much anticipation & done in a day. quite a letdown for asians who are into 'open-houses'. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

yep <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />... as much as we should close all threads speaking of Firefox because it is offensive for some who don't use it and close all threads who are making the excuses of microsoft because it may be offensive for linux users... well now, Imho, i should be banned for having flamed microsoft...




that was the most important point i had to object to glance. i agree with him about the thing that a generalization like The Frenchs, The Americans, The X are some kind of an abusive shortcut to "cultural differences" but i must say i can't say clearly how we can try to define cultural identity without first stating differences then correcting slightly the view we have of it what would be limiting prejudices... limiting not avoiding it absolutly as prejudices may be not entirely avoidable when different cultures are dialoging... for what i've seen (not so much as i'm not here for so long) it was always the way we proceeded on these forums until recently... only in a second move what cement the national view (or any "human group" view) could be analyzed, (criticized...? kantian meaning of the word)... after all it is a quite natural way of thinking IMO asserting a point then correcting it slightly until it reaches/discovers/engenders another point...

alrik, i'm not sure i understand exactly where you intent to go with these two questions as i can't believe you're seriously wondering if that thread should be closed, but i think if someone is really offended by it it is best if he/she says it... silence is sometimes the best step to misunderstanding... still IMO

and for your pics i have not a nocando clue of what you are talking... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> so i will keep still...

Alrik, please calm down. You posted very nice pictures, I really enjoyed them.

As for cultural differences between us, as borders between us open those differences become more and more invicible. They say the more nations mixed the better human will be.

Estonians are also calm, and even slow. You can think they are too slow but thats a mistake, thats a cover they use. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Estonians historically lived at farms that were often distant from each other, so, think of calm silent loners. But novadays, living in the cities we change, become more community oriented. We need to be among other human beings to feel comfortable <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />.

As for that story about asian guy who was shot, Alrik, this is were I strongly disagree!
And I like laws in some states of US. I would like same laws to be here.

Every human has the right to have home and to protect it, himself and his family. The asian guy violated that right. He was warned and asked to leave. He didn't. That was absolutely right, that he was shot.

We have hot polemics about these rights in Estonia now. Especially after latest events here.
Four young drunk 18-27yo guys decided to rob one farmer on one distant estonian farm. The farmer came out of his house with a rifle and warned them to leave. He even shot in the air. The guys leaved. But they thought of revenge, or just wanted to rob that farmer badly. They returned, this time they were armed with pistols. Damn, the most interesting part - farmer was experienced hunter.
He killed everyone. He is now almost a national hero who was being able to save his family and to oppose those beastards. Btw. he has wife and two daughters. What could have happened if he was peaceful and unarmed?

I will say that with no doubt I will shoot the head off anyone who is trying to enter my home, and I want my country to not stop me from doing that.

And as I have written about one positive and nice example I will write about one negative. This happend somewhere in 1992. My best friend was planning to leave Estonia for Israel, forever, and he went to say byebye to his friends. That evening there were five of them - 2 girls 3 guys (I know all of them and regularly see everuone) in that hostel room celebrating my friends departure.

At that evening 2 unknown drunk man came in (they broke th door), just to have fun (later it became known that both of them were soldiers who participated in that war in Afganistan (remember Soviets had an army there long before Bush)they were well trained butchers who knew well how to torture and kill.

So, those two raped the girls and beaten everyone in that room for two days. My friends were just young students having no knowledge of war, martial arts etc.
At the end of second day my friend took knife from the table and killed on of these butchers. He got six years of prison. His sister was raped by surviver, in revenge. So, where is truth?
And, at the end, he never got to Israe. I try not to contact him as he changed after prison, he is no normal man anymore <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

In order to store (at safe at home) and to carry firearms we need to get two different licences in Estonia: To get those licences you have to bring papers that your medical health is ok, you are not psycho and not a drug addict. And there some shooting exams also. I think probably I should worry meself a gun, yes, I should.

Ybe - Do you have the same wether there? I haven't seen the sun for weeks and weeks. I miss it. (Egin is surfing for some pics of the sun to remember it)