Larian Studios Forums General Chat Chat (Anything) Johannus Paulus II

If I read it correctly, Seth wasn't saying anything that's insulting and defaming. It's a simple sentence, not an insult or anything. Seth didn't even had a clear opinion about that.
I too think that the church has indeed some mysterious ways to select a pope that is less competent and is more likely to put items like gay marriage, contraception and abortion back into the closet. What can this man even accomplish at his age? He is already with one foot in the grave.
I also had hoped for a pope that would answer to the needs of the people.

@ Seth
I understand that you are disappointed you were expecting that G. B. would be choosen as the new Pope. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />



@ Gal
Not very nice for the old people.
The intelligence is still working even when you get old.

Barta

O look, they teamed up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />



Talk about insulting. Now that's insulting. To everyone who didn't agree with the Nazi's. There ware thousands and thousands of Germans who waren't nazi's.



So? Insulting to who? There ware thousands of Germans who waren't. Who also made a choice when they ware 17. The choice not to join a facist party. The choice to choose a pope that was a member of a party that killed hundreds of priests is a bit... strange, maybe?
While lots of priests and people who work for the church get kicked out for much less disturbing facts daily.
-But then again... They're so short on priests these days that they rather cover it up.
I still don't get what you mean with insulting. I only posted a fact about the person himself.



Just open any newspaper, watch news on tv or on the internet, listen to the radio...
Everyone tells you he's very conservative. Most people in the church aren't even happy with this choice.
Not so long ago he declared that "he doesn't mind to step over some bodies to protect the old values of the church."
Pretty extremist declaration.
And he's almost 80 years old. After the life he lead you really can't expect him to be the new, refreshing spirit of the church.



Like I said before. Not all Germans ware part of that. Lots of others made a different choice. You say he couldn't choose/decide for himself? I doubt that very much with his background. And even so, it's not just about his mistakes.
It's about electing a pope with that background. While it's in fashion for media to jump on every little thing politicians and famous people do, to turn it into scandal after scandal, ... it's very strange for the church, who has to maintain values, to apoint someone who already carries a burdon as their leader.

The more I see and read about it, like in the Italian newspapers of today, ... and taking in memory that most other cardinals said -before his election- more or less that they didn't liked him, and that he was choosen so fast (while most ware not in his favour!)...
It's just your typical, every day, political thing. He was pope before the election. The real people in power put him there becouse they don't have to worry about their jobs now (he already said he kept the same staff). And becouse of his age. They don't expect him to last long.

It's just like in any other goverment. Political games.

Thankx gal <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />
Who said blonds are dumb? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
But I did have an opinion, ofcourse.
I always have an opinion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Who's G.B;????? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I didn't expected anything. I'm an atheist, remember?
You understood wrong. I'm just looking at all of this as... I dunno... analist. And as a normal person. Who fears that again the church has blown a big oportunity to be more modern and more humane. Becouse, as much as I dislike it, this still has an efect on thousands of people worldwide.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />



gal wasn't talking about old people. She was talking about the pope.
And even if she was... she's still right. It's a simple fact. A law of nature even.

@ Barta
Don't get me wrong here, I have respect for the elderly. At my work, I'm the youngest between people that are in their fifties. But don't expect me to believe that the brain of a man at the age of 78 is still working perfect. And besides, I ment by his accomplishments, he doesn't have much time left anymore on earth, if he wants to write history, he come up with something real fast. That's what I ment.

But what has happened to free opinion here? Can't we have our own opinion about someone or something? At least we don't go shoot anyone because they are in our way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
And why should we respect someone that has been in the Hitlerjugend? My grandmother didn't join them and she was also at the age of 14. She choosed to be a better person. And I've read a biography about a man that got into the hitlerjugend by his father, but he never went to any meeting. He was also about that age and he also choosed another way.


Thanks Seth, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" /> I also ment that you simply told a fact. (about the pope being a member of the Hitlerjugend) I couldn't come up with the word anymore. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

First I never thought i will be "defending" Ratzinger in my life but

No you weren't just telling a fact. You were underlining something real but without any counterpoints. Why not saying Josef Ratzinger has apologized many times about his past (last time in a book in 91)? (many european statesmen from this generation or a bit older have not) Why not saying he has been for 40 years one of the major promoters of the dialog with the Jews? Because it does'nt get very well with your mediocre theory that the Curch is going into black ages because Church has elected a nazi pope? Sorry this is what i read in your lines (I mean the chaining of sentences) . It's a bit funny because it just proves you have not a clue about what you are talking.

Yes he is conservative. In a very different meaning though. As I said he was progressive once (until 1970s) and about some points is still "progressive" maybe not in the points which are interesting you but still it is true. Anyway he was more than 20 years Prefate of the Faith's Congregation which is a "job" where you have no choice but being consevative. I'm not saying he is not conservative but even a conservative man may be able to make reforms.

As for his age I would just say that i will be very glad to have the half of his brain and culture @ 78 or even before. It's not because I'm not agreeing with him i will make the mistake to think his stupid. Well he won't probably last very long it's true... And so then?

I'm glad to know you're grandmother was a true heroin, but please reread about WWII and Hitler's dictature. It's obvious than in 41, Germany was full of 14 years old resistants! I'm not minimizing the truth and the courage of isolated acts but be realistic it was not something that has been made by so many. And yet the majority of the others is not either so guilty. Many of those who even were in the Hitler's Youth (for the most an engagments and sometimes an enforced engagment) of their parents have let them behind them and made modern Germany. So, yes I think in truth that your words are insulting for German people, for many christians, and for Ratzinger.

what are you trying to insinuate...

Except for the people who are ill, the brain still works very well at any age.
Getting older we loose some neurones but a brilliant and intelligent person will still be brillant and intelligent at 80 years old.

And be sure that someone who is not really brilliant at 20 years old will still be not really brilliant at 80 years old.

Barta

I wasn't saying most people where nazis. I was saying most people where in Hitlerjugend. That's two different things.

Youths at that time where practically forced into Hitlerjugend, no matter if they liked it or not. It wheren't for Nazis really. It where for pepole who where NOT Nazis, so they could be scooled to be Natzis. I'm not saying anything about how sucsessfull they where, because I can only assume that.

Geeze, everyone seems to take what you say, and then assossiate a little, and then accuse you for saying something totally different (well, not totally, but you get the picture)...

Übereil

You read my words the way you want to.
But don't tell others how they should read them. That's sugesting they don't have a brain to understand it for themselves. That's insulting.
And telling the writer of the words that his words mean something completely different is insulting too.
Turning the words around, reading much more than there is, putting them in another context, adding things the writer never mentioned,...

Saying sorry doesn't change facts. If someone shoots your wife or girlfreind, and he/she says "oops, sorry"... doesn't change the fact that your girlfreind or wife is dead. And it wouldn't make me feel better.

But I'm not going to be fooled into going on and on about it. People here know me and they know they don't have to search for more -that isn't there anyway- in those words.

Besides, teachers always get the last word.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />



Thankx Ube.
That's just my point. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

so explain waht that meant except that... I'm stupid I didn't understand. And that i know it's you who wrote that... I've not added one word there.

Because "informing" about someone so partially is not an insult to your lectors brain perhaps? Are you drunk?

Even more insults aren't going to change that.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> Right on, Seth!!

Yep but stop the insults from each part. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

Each of us has his own point of view and i don't think that someone wants to change his mind.

I am catholic and i don't care about the past mistakes of the new pope.
I don't judge him.
[color:"orange"] Long life to the new pope [/color] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" />

Barta

He'll probablly be dead in a decade <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...

Übereil

Setharmon,

Was I insulting you? yes it's true my question "are you drunk?" was not very kind. Why? Because you're not answering anything, except playing the victim for having the sympathy of some members here. Very clever of you.

I see you can't even imagine that your words might rationally be seen as very arguable and even offensive. I'm sorry... Too bad for you.

I recall you this forum is not your private webpage where you are adressing select few of your friends who know you and may correct your words with the light of this knowledge, but a public thing where it is easy to misunderstand words, and i still think that your presentation of the words was offensive. maybe not willingly but the effect is here, IMO.

And for Ratzinger you still have not answered my question... why do you underline a fact and without any counterpoints?

-- End of the incident as far as I am concerned.

Yup, I think we all agreed we had different oppinions and dropped it...

Übereil

Isn't this thread suppoused to be about Johannus Paulus II? Or now Benedict XVI I guess, not nazi's and insulting old friends. Geez, and I thought this guy was suppoused to draw us closer togeather!

Lews, when you get older you'll understand <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.

Übereil

Look who's talking!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />