Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) Suggestions What exactly is qwerty?

hello all, this is my first time here so go easy on me please.
i was lucky enough to purchase beyond divinity, seeing that divine divinity was packaged with it. otherwise, i would probably not have bought it. though i have never even installed, nor started, bd, i have read very extensively into the forums. they have helped me much with dd, and i find this is one of the very few rpg forums that people actually visit ~after~ getting what they needed out of it. call me lurker/spammer/what-ever it doesn't bother me, i just wanna get a heads up on bd before i actually attempt it. you're probably wondering what qwerty is, or what i think of it, or you would not be reading this... so let's continue:

off topic*** (i will learn to use the funny faces sooner of later)

when typewriters were first created, the keys were placed as if one were spelling the alphabet. a-b-c-d... you get the idea. from top-left to bottom-right, this was what a keyboard looked like. "qwerty" came about by combining the first 6 letters of the modern day keyboard. the only reason this "qwerty" (that is the last time i will use (") marks... i hate shift key) keyboard was created was to hinder the typist. it sounds weird, but unfortunately some were so adept at recognizing and utilizing the keyboard that they had begun to jam/block the mechanical typewriters at the time.

as of nowadays, with digital communication and non-mechanical data transfer [meaning non-physical] there is no possible way of surpassing your pc based on the speed at which you type.

one man, or woman, by the name of oh-i-forget [much in the same way you'll forget mine] created an idealistic keyboard. a keyboard not limited by the speed and ability of the above average human. this was a keyboard that placed all vowels under one hand while the other had only to combine the necessary consonants. while you or i may have thought this a major setback... having to re-learn typing, it actually was not.

united states naval research found some amazing results having people trained with the new [non-qwerty] keyboard and found that typing not only became less inaccurate, but faster as well.

so why not change? same thing i asked... answer=inertia

changing such an integral part of white-collar workers nationwide would no doubt mean training. this was considered and tested. results afaik;

*re-training a typist costs money
*re-training a typist reduces their familiarity with a qwerty board
*a trained typist [via the new keyboard] can outperform any qwerty typist
*any organization that employs this new regime of typists has training issues needing to be dealt with [i.e. new employees would have been using qwerty]
*employees having knowledge of qwerty, are sceptical of training under a new board, unless it is widely accepted.


-there are other advantages and disadvantages to mention, but the point i am getting to [if you made it this far] is game design, playability and replayability.

***qwerty explanation is above***now is how i think it pertains to dd+bd***

***holds up on-topic sign, finally***

i have always played rpgs. from dragon warrior to zelda, to the ff series. i have to say it ended there. ff3 [in america and possibly europe [[the one with kefka]]] was the only one that really caught me off-guard. i have tried MUDs (ewww caps) but i need visuals... maybe i'm not the artist at heart. one thing that dd and bd [afik] hold true to is that they are rpgs with visuals.

some have called dd the 'diablo-breaker' [buster-beater-whatever] and i feel it is just that. dd was the only breath of fresh air i had after god knows how many meph runs. dd gave new items, characters, builds, and quests. items, characters, builds, quests... hmmm all you'd need for a game right? wrong sadly, you need game play. i am literally hooked to the diablo engine. i love sprites more than you can possibly imagine. skill placed learning is the only way to create a truly unique character and this is why dd and bd go above and beyond diablo.[you can use skills from *other classes* either improving yourself, or wasting points ;] in-game pause is a must, provided you wish to call upon a large number of spells. we are not machines, and shuffling through spells while the enemy has them at hand is not reasonable.

***this, in a way i guess, brings us to the qwerty phenomena***

i despise 3d rendering. i think it's fake/ugly/full of angles that shouldn't be there. in every 3d game i have ever played, up to i guess doom3 on my brothers whomping machine, i still see things that make me say 'ewwww.' small glitches, transparancies, whatever... these games seem like a huge bug test. with dd and bd... diablo, ff3, megaman, mario bros. ghouls n' ghosts, sf, sf2, sfxalpha beta theta gamma quadra nunchaka-whateva... [that's my way of saying they made far too many street fighter games] the pictures are always spot on. 3d [if it's done really well] has the ability to take me out of my 2d [qwerty parrallel here*] safe mode.

is it just me or are all of you 2d fans? long live sprites and storyline!... i'm going to try and attach a poll... hope i get it right. talk to you all later :o)

alekhine

p.s. here's the poll thing*

Wellcome to the forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />! Hope you'll stay <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

My first post looked like this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.

And one thing you'll HAVE (I repeat: HAVE) to think of when setting up a poll in this forum is this: You've GOT (I repeat: GOT) to have a potatoeoption. If you wonder why, ask one of the older members (Lews is a really good alternative, he started it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />).

And now: questions:

This typewriterthing: <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Is this true, is there a new keyboard, is this made up as an example, how do you know this etc? I've never even heard of this, to be honest...

And over to RPG's:

What is ff? (Firefox... No <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />)

I've played RPG's since I was... What is it? 11? 12? Something like that, started with the exelent game Fallout 2 (useing walkthrough <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />). I've played some DD engined games, didn't like them, apart from the brilliant Planescape:Torment (if you, as you say, like RPG's then you've GOT to try this. Who needs visuals when you've got this kind of story and characterinteraction? Really?). Have allso played and really liked Arcanum. And various other games.

I have allso played Diablo, which ISN'T (I repeat (since I like to repeat things <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />): ISN'T) an RPG. It is an action-RPG, which IMHO is something totally different.

Oh and this was a thread about 3d vs 2d! Yes! Erm...

I have no real prejudices about 3d or 2d. I allways thought that 2d was easier to get to look allright, while 3d at its peak looked better. And 3d IS getting better, believe me.Those flaws you're talking about is disapearing (I think, or maybe I just don't think about it), while 2d is getting too big... When it comes to filesize, you know (that's why dd is so much bigger than bd, when it comes to files).

Übereil

I voted 'no difference', though if 3D is done right it can produce a much more realistic and interactive world, and characters can be much more configurable. The actual graphics quality is secondary to gameplay for me.

Welcome to the forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />



Introducing the Dvorak Keyboard

FF = Final Fantasy, I would think

sheesh... 2 replies and i havent even headed for bed. to the first post, qwerty is indeed real. i will research it deeper and find the 3 letter acronym for the new keyboard [by new i mean several years old] if you wish. i only remember things that are useless to me later in life. [anyone else have this problem?]

as for raze... wow. didn't expect a reply from you until i brought up another possible way of duping items that could be fixed. i'm no programmer, but if the mechanisms are similar, i think the person that filled their barrels with garbage might be on to a more legit way of duping. by legit i mean a way of cheating, that isn't really cheating because the programmer acknowledges the existence and is either unwilling or unable to counter it. i believe the name is Lar... he/she sent me a welcome to the forum as you both did, however i have this itching feeling his may have been automated... i'm kind of going out on a limb here... see it came only seconds after i created my login.

anyhow more on this later.

for others, to clear up the confusion, qwerty is our keyboard. there are other, more efficient available, and... no one wants to use them.

back to the guy with the hard to spell name... raze is correct as usual, ff=final fantasy

and to raze, graphical beauty is important to me, but not all-important. if you have played any or all of the ff series maybe you can relate to why i felt ff3 (6 in japan and maybe europe... not sure) was far more involving that ff7 (ps [not sure of any other platforms]

if not, it's ok.

doh before i forget, hard-to-pronounce/spell-guy... yes fallout and fallout2 ruled :o)

thanks for the welcome <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

alekhine

I played FF7 on the PC, and a couple (or at least one) of the earlier ones on Nintendo (which I only vaguely recall, so can not compare to FF7).

Checked the Dorak keyboards layout. There's no Ö, Ä or Ö <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />.

And I guess I'm the hard to spell/pronounce guy. I have no problem with it. After all, I've written it roughlly 3000 times by now <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />. I've even started signing e-mails with it (to teachers. This is beginning to be a problem...).



This sounds interesting... Since I'm young (and not really used to qwerty keyboards, even though I use them) this could be nice to try out IF this is possible... And I guess it isn't really...

I've played a little FF... 7 I think it was when I borrowed my friends playstation 1 a couple of years ago (it was kind of new then). Don't really have an oppinion of it, but I think I thoght it was kind of linnear. And quite poor characterinteraction.



Once again I repeat (I don't usually repeat this much <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />), you should try Planescape:Torment (if you havn't). If you can stand the graphics (and the poor charactercreation) you'll have a simplly stunning game to play. I never managed to finnish it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />. Bit I will someday... (I just wonder when some day is...)

Übereil (if you want a big thread, have THREE topics in it at the same time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />)

Dvorak, not Dorak. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

In the Siemsns-Nixdorf-Museum for Computers in Paderborn, Germany, I learned that the keyboard layout has historical reasons.

There were better layouts, but the one which sold most because sort of an "industry-standard". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> And that was back in the times of the earliest typewriter machines !

We have inherited our "western" keyboard layout from these early typewriter machines. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Alrik.

all computers I own, and the ones I use at work, all have AZERTY keyboards. And my classical typewriter is also AZERTY.

I know Qwerty exists, but it just doesn't make sense to put the numbers of the top row as default, when you already have the NumPad keys.

it's slower indeed.

qwerty is the classic english keyboard layout... azerty if i remember correctly is french..

when you learn to touch type fairly fast... you learn to use the numbers on top.... only when you use numbers a LOT during your typing do you switch between the keyboard top row and the num-pad.

I absolutely LOVE dvorak though... typing speed is 4* faster on it... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> The only problem is working on other computers... i either have to take a dvorak keyboard with (thank heavens i have a "roll up" keyboard for that.) or you have to install additional keyboard layouts on the computer.... grrrrrrrrrrrrr

We here in Germany have QWERTZ , which sounds a little bit like "Quartz" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Anyone knows where you can buy a Dvorak keyboard by the way? And if it's so much better, then why isn't it standard?

Übereil

You will have to search online.... i bought mine from a company called "corex" in South Africa.

Dvorak is not standard (yet), because it will take too much money to train every one to type on a dvorak keyboard.... you literally have to learn to type all over again.

But there are already a demand for people who CAN type dvorak....

I saw this in a museum about comnputer technology : It has historical reasons.

Although Dvorak was better, the manufacturer of simple typewriters "overwhelmed" everything with his layout simply because it was sold much, *much* more.

So this became a kind of "industry standard".

It wass then inherited towards computers, as simply bureau machines (remember IBM spelled out ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) .

THere is a reason why the qwerty type writers were more popular....

Because the typing speed on dvorak is a LOT faster, the type-arms often got jammed together...

Qwerty was designed to slow down people's typing speed, so the arms never got jammed...

(unfortunately this became redundant the moment i bought a printer <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> (i think no matter how fast i type on a dvorak keyboard... my printer is still faster than me by about 98734762374628734 pages an hour <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Yes; I vaguely remember that it was so with the jamming of the "arms". I think you're right, Lady Rain. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's weird, you live in the flemmish part of Belgium and you don't speak french.
So why do you have french keyboards ?


If you are used to a type of keyboard azerty or qwerty, it's not easy to change and you think it's slower but it's not.
For exemple i am used with the numbers on the top row of my laptop's keyboard and i can't use a NumPad on an ordinary keyboard. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Barta

so why not? [i]Et pourquoi pas?[i]

Is there some law saying that something English is also automaticly the international standard?

Je sais bien me débrouiller en français. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Found this link via the "Grumpy Gamer" Blog Site : Why Querty was invented

Very interesting - i actually registered just so I could respond to this.

I lived in Korea for two years, and was amazed at how fast everyone there could type. Little high school students would get on their cell phones (albeit a different setup than the keyboard) and they'd type faster on their cell phone than I could on a qwerty keyboard.
The Korean keyboard is set up so that all the vowels are one one side and the consonants on the other. The consonents are also divided up into types of consonents, but that would be tedious to decribe. Anyway, learning to type again was/is difficult, but not traumatizing; but it may be totally different learning to type in a different alphabet. Its even harder because I don't have a Korean keyboard at home, so I just have to fiddle around until i find the right key, sometimes.
Just thought you'd like to know....

That is interesting! Thanks for letting us know and welcome to the forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to the forum.

Learning to type on a different keyboard is a mission i know. I made the effort to teach myself to type on a dvorak keyboard... and i think it was hilarious to say the least... my backspace key was smoking by the time i finished a sentence... but now its a lot better, i can type on both qwerty and dvorak keyboards, with only a few glances at my fingers (on dvorak only) when i get stuck.

Keep up the good effort... touch typing (without watching your hands) are rewarding in itself...
i learned to touch type playing online (mIRC) trivia. You have to type the answers fast to get a score... so you are forced to learn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Hope you enjoy your stay here on the forum... they dont put up warnings that once you register here, you STAY here and become part of the family... so grab a seat in the forum and get comfies <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" />

BTW, if you want to meet all the insane members, check out the chat section... (though the insane ones arent limited to there they tend to be seen there all the time)

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

I remember there was once a game óut there ... You had to drive away and to beat Zombies by typing on your keyboard ... I would've liked to play it, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> but I never saw it in the shops here ...

@ alrik

do you have an idea of what the name might be....

there are loads of little games like that available at Abandonia's Old games archive

Edit:
I think i found what you were looking for

at Underdogs if you decide to get it, PLEASE turn off your download accilerators... it wont download with multiple connections... the old windows method is all.

@ Lady_Rain: great link! But damn, I was supposed to get a lot of work done today! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I am currently playing typing of the dead... its hillarious!!!! so i am hunting for more games now....

I am all hooked on the dos games again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />