Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback How to fix Concentration

Probably the most broken aspect of the game in early access is concentration. With dozens of spells that rely on maintaining it in order to be anywhere close to balanced the number of factors that need to be fixed are quite a few!

In no particular order:

Going prone should at most cause a check and absolutely should not end concentration without even a save. In my endevour to make concentration spells function as, hopefully, intended I have I tried to build with items specifically for that aim and finally gave up when I discovered the boots that prevent the prone status while concentrating do not appear work.

Instances of damage should result in one concentration check. Getting hit by a gith sword should not be one for the slashing damage and then a second for the additional psycich. Being shot by a fire arrow should be one check, with an additional one the next turn if you're still burning. The only time an opponent should cause more than one roll is if it is lvl 5 with extra attack and hits you twice. Or possibly on spells such as magic missile, though in 5e rules as written this is questionable and for the sake of game balance (given the large number of opponents neccessairy to make interesting fights in a video game) this should probably not be a thing.

This is more a balance choice than broken mechanic but on the subject of large numbers of opponents, these already push the concentration mechanic to braking point. They should not be combined with numerous elemental arrows etc that guarentee damage on a miss, followed by damage again from burning etc on the next round. I'm not trying to suggest fights be easier, infact I'm hoping for harder difficulty options on release, but rather the balance should be such as to not destroy the value of half of the games spells.

Lastly the two feats to help with concentration need to be added. I can see that warcaster (i believe it is called) would be difficult to impliment because of some of its additional features, though I hope at least some version of it makes it into the game. At least advantage on concentration saves alone can't be hard to add as there is already armour in the game that does this. The feat that grants constitution save proficency and plus 1 con I don't see being difficult at all though. One or other of these feats would be an automatic pick at lvl 4 for any concentration spell caster who wants to be anywhere close to the action.

As a final note I would add that the spells in table top are quite carefully balanced in terms of concentration. Before lvl 4 a spell like Bless gives value while also improving your chance of maintaining it before aquiring one of the feats mentioned, while the clerics bread and butter spell spiritual weapon doesn't require concentration for a reason and it's absence in early access really hits the cleric class hard. Similar to this flaming sphere would be a great spell to allow wizards to compete but again their most important defensive spell- Shield is missing which would, at least if the large number of guarenteed damage sources were removed allow them to function before lvl 4.

I understand why some of these things havn't been added. Shield would of course have been really difficult to impliment before the patch 9 reaction system, but I truly hope these problems are fixed for releae. Untill then these issues make all but the direct damage options, be they martial or magical, the only viable choices and for me have meant that after many hours of experimention I am done with early access as I find it too frustrating trying to make builds work as I hope they are intended to. Another patch before release to address these issues would be nice, but these problems absolutely need to be fixed for full release in my opinion.

Even Solasta has issues with single attacks that do two damage types being counted as two separate instances, requiring multiple concentration checks. A player said that a dev commentated and said that it was coded that way and can't be changed "without great effort".

To me, that was an utterly bizarre response. Certainly different damage types should be split for the purposes of properly calculating damage reduction and immunity, but after that, the new total should be put back together and THAT should be used as the actual damage number. I can think of a few ways to code that, depending on how the damage calculation method is called.

+1.7

+1000

I don't imagine that it would be a quick fix. but to emphasize the importance (in the hopes a dev reads this) imagine half the spells coded, animated etc being worse than pointless. While a min-maxer might learn not to take or use concentration spells and likely end up finding the combat system much more shallow than it could have been, a more casual player is going to experiance extreme frustration by the 5th time they cast enlarge person, only to deal an extra 2 damage before losing concentration.

Oh I already avoid using concentration spells. I’d rather risk a savings throw than have a concentration spell pop due to the above as noted. Even a max stat Con spell caster has multiple “opportunities” per round for concentration to go bust.

There are enough utility/defensive spells that don’t use it and enough damage spells the make up for it.

Additionally, enemies target player characters using concentration spells. This can be exploited since they avoid hitting high AC characters otherwise.

However, it may still cause concentration spells to suck in boss fights for glass canon builds. Certain play styles, like any warlock relying on hex, attract disproportionate attention.

Ethel having it out for Wyll confused me in my first playthrough. At that, I was level 3. It took being chased around by a tadpole wildshaped druid to cut that aggro. She's apparently coded to hate that, which is funny, because a crit from her claws could one shot anyone. And she kept critting. That boss is even more dangerous at melee distance.

To be fair, they seem to focus on low HP characters, too. That helps front line classes balance it out /if/ everyone else is at full HP. As a hidden con, it makes builds featuring one damage sink unviable for me. Once they're down, it's an endless revival/death loop. Not that you couldn't exploit that occasionally. It's just not great fun.

I kinda disagree that there are enough options if you don't take concentration spells. I mean it depends on class. I spent a few minutes on the wiki adding it up and while wizards and sorcerers do get enough none con spells that a lvl 5 wizard could only memorize half of them it gets worse for every other caster. Life cleric had something like two or three spells more than the total number they can prepare and Paladin could, I think, prepare every none con spell there is. Lvl 3 spell options get worse for everyone as well. While wizards do still get four options plus some very situational spells, Druids have Plant growth- and that's it.

It's fair that "enough" is subjective, but I think it'd be really bad for the replayability of the game if it remains in this state at release.

It definately used to be the case that enemies avoided attacking high AC characters but I think Larian changed this at some point. At least it doesn't seem to be the case currently.

Do enemies prioritize characters using con spells? I've not really noticed this one way or another.

I agree they target low HP characters, a good strategic option for the AI (and the player)

I pray the Resilient and Warcaster feat will be in the full release.

by removing it and redesigning the whole system and rebalance spells from ground up for a video game.

Nah.

Or yeah we can say that and pretend that we have a good video game rpg system and that this is best you can do.

We forgo any and all strength of video gaming like power of cpu - gpu. Clearly the corrent system was made with table top in mind and you can see that at every corner, if you want to that is. Each to his own.

In Solasta (where the system as a whole was well-implemented) I think concentration works well and I like it just fine. Of course the system was made with tabletop in mind. Its a tabletop system. Rebalanced spells for a video game and you have to rebalanced everything else, at which point just make a whole new system. But plenty of people are coming because they want to play 5e. The system isn't perfect, but no system is. Its good and fun and would be doing its job if Larian hadn't mucked with it the way they already have. Suggesting wholesale changes like this kind of misses the spirit of adapting the system.

It may be too late to implement something like this if they weren't already planning to do so, but my ideal solution would be enemy AI that is roleplaying rather than trying to win a video game. By that I mean packs of wild animals that behave like wild animals, goblins that act like goblins, experienced mercenaries that act like experienced mercenaries, etc.

If an experienced sellsword sees a wizard looking fellow muttering and gesturing in the back of the group, I have no problem with him being smart enough to focus on that target. A newborn gnoll on the otherhand shouldn't necessarily be that smart. The problem with all these concentration spells is that the one casting them is almost always being focused down by an AI that is trying to play a game optimally rather than trying to simulate whatever character or creature. If wizard-in-back-fighter-in-front provided the amount of security that you might reasonably expect it to, I don't think it would be such a big deal.

There are certain spells that just shouldn't be concentration based, however, regardless of how the PnP system works. "Protection From Evil and Good" for example is a spell that can only do its thing when you're being attacked, and yet being attacked virtually guarantees you'll lose the spell. Spells like that should really be fire-and-forget, like Mage Armor or False Life.

We had a discussion waaaaay back about using some combination of enemy Int, Wis, and maybe even creature type to determine tactics.

High Int & High Wis? Knows to focus the casters and/or squishy dps characters.
Low Int & High Wis? Doesn't know to attack a caster specifically, but might use tactics to gang up on weak-looking characters.
High Int & Low Wis? Might focus on a caster exclusively even if tactically suboptimal.
Low Int & Low Wis? Attacks nearest enemy.

A beast probably wouldn't know to attack a caster, but an aberration would.
Etc.

I definitely agree that different enemy types having different AI that suits their nature is both more immersive and makes for more engaging combat, as we learn and respond to different tactics. And that this could also probably help to some extent with the concentration problem.

When will people realize that a single player VIDEO game can't be like a TT game probaly never will be.

So maybe we should stop trying to make it into one.

If people want to play DNd 5e they can just go do that... Stop pretending that this is it, because it's not. Far from it and it should not try to be one.

VIdeo rpgs and TT Rpgs have vastly different strengths and weakness and as such IF you gonna adapt a system from one to the other you should do that. Adapt it, meaning change it for the new platform! Not copy paste it.

But yes that would indeed need a new rebalance. Thing is, game needs one as is so not really a big deal in the end.

Anyway, way to late for this kinds of changes gonna be lucky if they can finish in time as is.

I think everyone is aware that there are limitations on how far a video game can replicate the TT experience, but we should all recognise that how far a game like BG3 should try to do so is a matter of preference, and it is not constructive to suggest that folk who want an experience closer to 5e should simply play something else, especially in the context of requesting that the game diverge from that ruleset more than it already does.

All opinions on the game are welcome, but let’s express them in a way that is friendly, positive and respectful of other forum members.