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veteran
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OP
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In a BG3 forum people seem to prefer BG3 to Starfield. Who could have possibly predicted that? Outside as well. Lets see. Starfield:Metacritic Score 83 User score 6.6 Steam Score - Mostly Positive (76% Positive) Baldur's Gate 3:Metacritic Score 96 User Score 8.9 Steam Score - Overwhelmingly Positive (96% positive) So, that's objective reality for you. I fully expect you to either 1) peace out or 2) move the goalposts.
Last edited by Blackheifer; 18/09/23 08:02 PM.
Blackheifer
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In a BG3 forum people seem to prefer BG3 to Starfield. Who could have possibly predicted that? Outside as well. Lets see. Starfield:Metacritic Score 83 User score 6.6 Steam Score - Mostly Positive (76% Positive) Baldur's Gate 3:Metacritic Score 96 User Score 8.9 Steam Score - Overwhelmingly Positive (96% positive) So, that's objective reality for you. I fully expect you to either 1) peace out or 2) move the goalposts. You need to go outside and touch grass.
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enthusiast
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In a BG3 forum people seem to prefer BG3 to Starfield. Who could have possibly predicted that? Outside as well. Lets see. Starfield:Metacritic Score 83 User score 6.6 Steam Score - Mostly Positive (76% Positive) Baldur's Gate 3:Metacritic Score 96 User Score 8.9 Steam Score - Overwhelmingly Positive (96% positive) So, that's objective reality for you. I fully expect you to either 1) peace out or 2) move the goalposts. I mean, we know that user ratings aren't really "objective reality" in the sense that they're an objective rating of a game's quality. They're not even an objective measurement of how people like the game, they're a noisy signal at best. If we're arguing that they should be used as a measure of how many people prefer one game over the other, we wouldn't even want to look at overall reviews, we'd want to look at that subset of reviews from people who have played both games and reviewed both. I'm willing to bet there's at least a few dozen thousand of those. (It is hard to argue that review score is a matter of user preference: In the extreme, you can imagine one game that has an average 5/5 score but only 3 players, compared to a game that has a 3/5 score but 10 million players. Which one would you say people *really* prefer to play)
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OP
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I got a Peace out AND a moving of goalposts.
It's like I can see the future...
or, make predictions based on simplistic patterns of behavior.
Blackheifer
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I got a Peace out AND a moving of goalposts.
It's like I can see the future...
or, make predictions based on simplistic patterns of behavior. ...except that there was no 'moving of goalposts', because you were talking to multiple people. The original person you were talking to "peaced out", and I made the simple observation that the claim you were making (User scores indicate which game is preferred over the other as an "objective fact") simply wasn't true. I politely explained to you why this wasn't true and suggested reasonable alternatives. This is a public conversation, not some exercise in getting some obscure, vaguely defined 'goal' or 'score'.
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I got a Peace out AND a moving of goalposts.
It's like I can see the future...
or, make predictions based on simplistic patterns of behavior. My first post in this thread is on page 4. I haven't changed my opinion since then. Here it is copied and pasted: Now that I've put some time into BG3 post release, I am coming to the conclusion that it will be a historically important game, much like its predecessor. For the record, I did NOT think this as recently as six months ago.
With that being said, I think GOTY awards are silly. Why should we care what an assortment of "industry insiders" think about games? This is mostly just industry wankery, and I ignore this crap for pretty much the same reason that I ignore the oscars. The only opinion that matters is the opinions of the people PLAYING the game.
With regards to Starfield... Well, I'm pretty sure the poor user reviews on metacritic are due to a review bomb (and I *think* the rationale for that is people mad about microsoft refusing to release it on PS5). So it is not a reliable source for the game quality itself.
I am not yet playing Starfield, but based on my extremely high opinion of BG3 I doubt that it will be as good, because it is very rare for games to be this good. However, I will play it, and I expect that I will find it enjoyable. I have friends playing Starfield right now who are claiming to be having a blast. There I am on record saying that BG3 is amazing and Starfield probably won't be as good. I have actually played a bit of Starfield since then. I find it an enjoyable game, but my overall opinion has not changed. More importantly, Game of the Year is stupid. WHO CARES! Its a bunch of industry insiders. Its just as bad as the Oscars, which I also ignore. If you want to reward Larian for making a good game buy their damn product! In any case, "Go outside and touch grass" is really good advice. You should stop with the insane internet forum warrior schtick and go out and enjoy life a bit. With that, peace out for real.
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I got a Peace out AND a moving of goalposts.
It's like I can see the future...
or, make predictions based on simplistic patterns of behavior. My first post in this thread is on page 4. I haven't changed my opinion since then. Here it is copied and pasted: Now that I've put some time into BG3 post release, I am coming to the conclusion that it will be a historically important game, much like its predecessor. For the record, I did NOT think this as recently as six months ago.
With that being said, I think GOTY awards are silly. Why should we care what an assortment of "industry insiders" think about games? This is mostly just industry wankery, and I ignore this crap for pretty much the same reason that I ignore the oscars. The only opinion that matters is the opinions of the people PLAYING the game.
With regards to Starfield... Well, I'm pretty sure the poor user reviews on metacritic are due to a review bomb (and I *think* the rationale for that is people mad about microsoft refusing to release it on PS5). So it is not a reliable source for the game quality itself.
I am not yet playing Starfield, but based on my extremely high opinion of BG3 I doubt that it will be as good, because it is very rare for games to be this good. However, I will play it, and I expect that I will find it enjoyable. I have friends playing Starfield right now who are claiming to be having a blast. There I am on record saying that BG3 is amazing and Starfield probably won't be as good. I have actually played a bit of Starfield since then. I find it an enjoyable game, but my overall opinion has not changed. More importantly, Game of the Year is stupid. WHO CARES! Its a bunch of industry insiders. Its just as bad as the Oscars, which I also ignore. If you want to reward Larian for making a good game buy their damn product! In any case, "Go outside and touch grass" is really good advice. You should stop with the insane internet forum warrior schtick and go out and enjoy life a bit. With that, peace out for real. You may want to consider taking your own advice mr angry.
Blackheifer
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
Joined: Oct 2021
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Okay, so no one summoned me here, but I am active on the forum.
Let's keep the direct insults to each other to a minimum. Disagree, make substantive points, and accept that others will disagree with your points while presenting their own. As someone who has gotten heated on these forums in the past, I know how tempting it is to return fire or take that parting shot. It's not worth it.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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journeyman
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Kidding about the bets because I probably can't legally do that, but BG3, despite its flaws, is going to be GOTY.
I spent the last 4 days waiting for the Minthara patch to play EA Starfield and wow- what a pile of trash that game is. Bethesda is going all out trying to buy up all the marketing it can paying off Reddit, Metacritic, twitter etc...so it will do well amongst the mouth-breathers but the gaming community is disappointed and for good reason.
The fact is Starfield is being compared unfavorably to Bg3 and being held to that new standard. Larian shouldn't have been worried about Starfield stealing it's thunder, but Bethesda was right to be worried about being held to a higher standard because of Bg3.
I judged this game based on the development team size and the money bethesda had to sink into it, plus the 7 year build cycle - given those factors Starfield is a huge disappointment. No Man's Sky is a much better game - despite the bugs and wonky colors.
The only things I liked about starfield is the relative lack of bugs, the homage to other sci-fi books and movies, the ship design system and the aesthetic.
The bad:
1. The universe is fake - it's just a series of gates. You can't fly from Earth to Mars, you have to loading screen there. If you fly you will just run into the "MarsPixelSolarSystem.img" graphic which is flat. You can't fly into the sun, or manually fly into a planet. Apparently this technology was lost in 2003 after Freelancer was released.
2. The characters and writing are terrible, boring, basic bitch overused tropes.
3. Endless fetch quests, that lead to more fetch quests. I hope you love those loading screens.
4. Gatekeeping through skill point level ups. The opposite of Skyrim exists in this game - at least on your first playthrough. You have to do all these low level quests to really unlock the ability to just go anywhere and explore and build bases.
5. The ship combat and the first person combat are mediocre at best. Maybe this gets better the more skills you unlock.
6. You are going to spend a lot of time micromanaging inventory. The inventory system is horrific.
7. You can't swim, the NPC's are mostly non-reactive with awkward facials or no facial expressions.
8. One last thing that REALLY bugged me - the ship design system is actually a neat aspect of this game but is held back because Bethesda couldn't be bothered to label the ship modules to explain what is in them. No way to tell if a ship module contains a specific crafting station or any crafting station because they couldn't spare the minute it would take per item to do this apparently. It's like they didn't playtest the game at all.
It's like Bethesda looked at the open world aspect of Skyrim and how people loved to play it and just said "well fuck that, we need to make people play a specific way"
Anyway, there is a lot more wrong. Trust me, go buy No Man's Sky if you want a decent space game, or go dig up Freelancer on GoG.
BG3 100% will win GOTY. It has shaken up the industry in much the same way Elden Ring did last year and while Larian has a lot of work still to do, it remains an amazing game that is streets ahead of anything else released this year...and Starfield is streets behind. I don't have to take a bet LoL! Not only will it be BG3 Game of the year, I'm almost 99.9. % it will be RPG OF the Year as well:P No other games wether it be Legend of Zelda TOK, Starfield etc . None of these games even come close to Baldur's Gate 3  and I just know and I'm going to leave it at that!
Everyone wants to see the dog stop pissing on the floor. I'm that dog. But I keep pissing on the floor! Marilyn Manson
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journeyman
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Okay, so no one summoned me here, but I am active on the forum.
Let's keep the direct insults to each other to a minimum. Disagree, make substantive points, and accept that others will disagree with your points while presenting their own. As someone who has gotten heated on these forums in the past, I know how tempting it is to return fire or take that parting shot. It's not worth it. I like the fact that this particular mod is active on this forum and they themselves have gotten in heated discussions in the past and realized it's not worth talking that "parting shot" I can honestly respect that because this person can take responsibility for their actions  And this is a pretty well run forum compared to Steam :X
Everyone wants to see the dog stop pissing on the floor. I'm that dog. But I keep pissing on the floor! Marilyn Manson
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journeyman
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In a BG3 forum people seem to prefer BG3 to Starfield. Who could have possibly predicted that? Outside as well. Lets see. Starfield:Metacritic Score 83 User score 6.6 Steam Score - Mostly Positive (76% Positive) Baldur's Gate 3:Metacritic Score 96 User Score 8.9 Steam Score - Overwhelmingly Positive (96% positive) So, that's objective reality for you. I fully expect you to either 1) peace out or 2) move the goalposts. It takes more then scores to be able to properly predict GOTY Lol! It takes a hell lot more.
Everyone wants to see the dog stop pissing on the floor. I'm that dog. But I keep pissing on the floor! Marilyn Manson
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Honestly, maybe its because I never paid much attention to it, but I never imagined Starfield as a contender for GOTY. I don't have a switch so I wasn't able to play it, but to me it's seemed like this year was always Tears of the Kingdom's to lose. From what I've heard about it from people I know and from the public in general, I think Zelda is the one that's gonna win and I honestly don't think BG3 even deserves to be seriously in the running. It's a good game, but just that, good. I don't think it ever really goes beyond being just good fun and I feel as though every aspect of the game has some degree of glaring flaws that become apparent as the game goes on. From the poorly balanced combat that can swing from too easy to too hard thanks to the encounter design and the heap of really powerful magic items we're showered with, a story held together by duct tape and string basically from the start, graphics that are great by the standards of the genre but basically about average by the standard of other games that go for graphical fidelity the way its trying.
However I do agree with what someone else said about game of the year not actually mattering. Just enjoy the games you enjoy, it doesn't really matter what the industry says in any regard.
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However I do agree with what someone else said about game of the year not actually mattering. Just enjoy the games you enjoy, it doesn't really matter what the industry says in any regard. Some of the games that have touched me the deepest and stayed with me longest have never won GOTY. Also, you guys do know that there are a lot of different companies handing out GOTY awards right? It's rare that one game tops everyone's lists, but that's because people have different ideas of what makes a game worthy of such high praise, kind of like how people are disagreeing in this thread.
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old hand
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It takes more then scores to be able to properly predict GOTY Lol! It takes a hell lot more. It sure does, but come on... The game award jury is composed of several specialized gaming websites, those same site which gave BG3 an overall 96 and Starfield an 83. You can't tell me that Starfield is a serious contender for the title with a 13 points difference between both games.
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Honestly, maybe its because I never paid much attention to it, but I never imagined Starfield as a contender for GOTY. I don't have a switch so I wasn't able to play it, but to me it's seemed like this year was always Tears of the Kingdom's to lose. From what I've heard about it from people I know and from the public in general, I think Zelda is the one that's gonna win and I honestly don't think BG3 even deserves to be seriously in the running. It's a good game, but just that, good. I don't think it ever really goes beyond being just good fun and I feel as though every aspect of the game has some degree of glaring flaws that become apparent as the game goes on. From the poorly balanced combat that can swing from too easy to too hard thanks to the encounter design and the heap of really powerful magic items we're showered with, a story held together by duct tape and string basically from the start, graphics that are great by the standards of the genre but basically about average by the standard of other games that go for graphical fidelity the way its trying.
However I do agree with what someone else said about game of the year not actually mattering. Just enjoy the games you enjoy, it doesn't really matter what the industry says in any regard. This is actually my take too (though to be fair I haven't played Starfield.) But having played ToTK and BG3, if I had to choose a GoTY it would be ToTK and it's not even close. (And this is despite me actually preferring BG3's genre.) BG3 has its moments where it shines, but there's just too much wrong with it - including, most unforgivably in my eyes, some basic functionality just not working on consoles, and they decided to go ahead and sell it despite this. Honestly I really don't think Larian should be rewarded for that.
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I could make a seperate thread on why Tear of the Kingdom won't win GOTY. Suffice to say it's a single system game and it didn't do anything to create a conversation about the state of the gaming industry. No doubt it's good, but only available to an audience of 100 Million people/ against a market of 3 billion gamers - that's a tiny slice of total possible audience. GOTY, the thing everybody on Reddit and all streamers talk about, that doesn't matter, but does. Objectively it matters or it wouldn't be talked about so much. The people who believe it doesn't matter always want to make sure YOU know how much it doesn't matter in every conversation about it. "Are they talking about GOTY? I better make sure they know how much I think it doesn't matter!" It takes more then scores to be able to properly predict GOTY Lol! It takes a hell lot more. That wasn't what that particular response was about/ LTR *facepalm*
Last edited by Blackheifer; 22/09/23 05:04 AM.
Blackheifer
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I love this game but apparently there are issues on the PS5.
Reports of constant crashes where Larian has suggested playing offline for the time being. Also apparently issues with co-op. There's a thread on the technical and gameplay problems subforum where the person was asking for a refund.
I'm afraid if these issues are true it'll take away votes for GOTY.
Oh, and I'm curious why you called it Tears of the Klandom seeing as how it was made in Japan.
Last edited by Veilburner; 19/09/23 10:18 PM.
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Oh, and I'm curious why you called it Tears of the Klandom seeing as how it was made in Japan. Oops, fixed. Ha, Tears of the Klandom. I guess I could try to make up something, like they are a small cult of players nobody cares about...but really it was just a mistake. In other news Starfield has dropped to 75% in Steam reviews. 5 more points and it goes into "Mixed" status. Thats bad!
Blackheifer
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Starfield is great for Bethesda. It's a step to the right direction, RPG wise. It has RPG system that can satisfy most of casual/tourist and tolerable for some RPG elitist. <- personal opinion btw.
But I think people expect Uber Mega success 11/10 game, but what they get is an 8 game. I wouldn't bother to see user reviews on Metacritic, I read some, and 99% of 0 score giver are just dumb reviewer.
On top of that those who dislike Bethesda already raring their daggers especially since after Fallout 76 flopped.
BG3 is obviously a winner for this year. Starfield is good. Good year for RPG both for casual and hardcore.
Last edited by Dext. Paladin; 22/09/23 07:51 AM.
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Oh, and I'm curious why you called it Tears of the Klandom seeing as how it was made in Japan. Oops, fixed. Ha, Tears of the Klandom. I guess I could try to make up something, like they are a small cult of players nobody cares about...but really it was just a mistake. In other news Starfield has dropped to 75% in Steam reviews. 5 more points and it goes into "Mixed" status. Thats bad! Do you agree with every Steam review average? If not why bring it up now?
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