Larian Studios Forums Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis (English) Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis Dialog systems - discussion

I thought it would be a good time to start a discussion about the dialog system, which should be used for Larian's next gen RPG (I start to get bored of this title aswell <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> ).

I took a few screenshots of some popular RPGs to show some choices of available dialog systems:

Divine Divinity


Elder Scrolls: Oblivion


Baldur's Gate II


Ultima 5: Lazarus


What is your favorite system for you? What is the one which worked for you and why?

Quite honestly, I am either for strictly pre-writte dialog or completely free text parsing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I always hated the Elder Scrolls system with keywords... cause I never know what the player character will say when I click on the word.

Pre-written dialog is quite time consuming and can be a problem if you want to make a non-linear and free gameplay. But since I doubt that a real non-linear and free gameplay is possible in these days, I can live without individual dialog lines but with fixed and pre-written words.

The completely free text parser is more complicated of course... it should allow you to enter any word you want or any word combination aka sentences... and the dialog system should always find a suitable answer for that, preferably not by choosing a given dialog line option but by text lines which get constructed in reply to the player's line. Add in voice recognition and dynamic voice playback (dynamic: the computer modulates the speed, tone, pitch etc. so that you can use any word in any place of a sentence) - and you have your perfect dialog system. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />



But briefly: I prefer the DD system if the game allows it...

And from a translator point of view, I HATE dynamic text dialog lines with placeholders like
"Hello, use %1 to obtain %2. Then bring it to %3, who will give you %4. Bring that back to me and I will give you %5"

What sounds perfect in English is quite impossible in German and other languages for example! So, DEATH TO PLACEHOLDERS! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

The best I've seen is the Lionheart system, which gives dialogue options based on skills and stats your character possesses and also according to his/her race. It's like an advanced version of the system used in PS:T. A character with good diplomacy skills is better at finding peaceful solutions, one with bluff or intimidation skills gets to use those, high intelligence gives smarter options, low intelligence limits options, etc.

Must be incredibly hard to implement, but it really has no peer that I've seen, nor even close.

I think everyone is bored of the title <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

And I'm not really sure what kind of system I want, maybe just DD's and have it updated abit.
Just as long as we have enough choices!
I often feel very limited with the dialogue options I get.

Elgi, wake up! You can start dreaming during the night.

As for the question: I would prefer full sentences as opposed to keywords. Something like Divinity or Neverwinter Nights 2.

I think that DD's dialogue system was rather good. Although personally I found the text a little too big. I think that a line should have been between each talk option, or each option should have been a different colour. Would have made it a little easier to read them when there was loads of text in the dialogue box.

I like the dialogue-system in TOEE quite a lot. If a roll for a skill, let's say bluff, will be (or was ?) successful, then another dialog-option appears - a yellow line which looks - apart from the colour - like any other dialog-option, except it has a small symbol in front of it indicating that a bluff could be successful. Same goes for lying, intimidating and so on.

In the late 80th, i played an RPG-Game from Origin, the Name was "Knights of Legends". Anybody remered at this Game?

The Dialouge-System allows the Gamer to write complete sentences in a Dialouge-Box. The Game search then for some Keywords and give you the appropriate answer. If you don't wrote any Keyword, the Game give you some random answer.
That was very funny, because it's some kind of interactivity.

You even must think about the Game and does not get everything set in front of your nose.

I would whish, that a kind of this dialouge-system will come again.

Much the same as Neverwinter Nights. I vote for that: full descriptive text with added options based on skills. The best parth is strength can be just as useful in a conversation as intelligence making people want to try other characters.

You mean like in that leisure suit larry game ? (if you know it)
My experience with it was that its too hard to be done (or maybe in the 80's it still was too hard, and I was a little kid, so maybe my english was just terrible)
Anyway pre-written dialogue options also help you to remind who certain persons are (if you are too lazy to check your quest log, and have a bad memory <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

[color:"orange"]full descriptive text with added options based on skills.[/color]

I think the game would almost need to have descriptive text, and stat/skill based options would be nice to have. Typed questions are a pain if you don't hit the right key words, and would not work very well with a console version of the game. Choosing keywords from a list is a little imprecise (though fine for an adventure game where you are going to go through all the speech options anyway), and could counter the intended atmosphere during a moral dilemma, for example.

just like Elliot Kane, i prefer the dialogue system of Lionheart (which sadly for the rest of the game, they just fall very short) as it has indicator on the dialogue's intent & the dialogues are also driven by the race of the character as well as the stats (intelligence, perception) or skills (diplomacy). Lionheart uses SPECIAL system.

as for Neverwinter Nights, i would prefer the dialogues between party members as done in NWN: Hordes of the Underdark. it gives depth to henchmen. this is also done in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, which was good.

worse comes to worse, i would fall back to DD's old system.

whatever the system, i feel that the content is the most critical component in making dialogues work.

There's one big problem I can see with the use of key words, and that is the difference between English & American spelling. Unless you are going to give alternative spellings for every key word (a right pain) the player may run into a problem caused by spelling difference.

There is also the problem a large number of people seem to have in spelling words like 'Rogue' correctly. I've even seen professional games with things called 'Rings Of The Rouge' in them...

And that's without considering alternate words that mean the same thing, or the use of local slang... You'd need to include huge numbers of synonyms if you are to avoid driving the players crazy.

It's a lovely idea, but very hard to implement without serious problems, IMO.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

"Rouge" means red in French, doesn't it ? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

Alrik...

It does indeed. 'Rouge' is also a kind of make up used to redden the cheeks, I believe.

The 'Ring Of The Rouge' did nothing to alter my character's appearance at all! Not even a hint of cheek reddening! I was shocked! No, really! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I'm open to suggestions to replace %1 %2 %3 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Lar

Oh, how mean you are, Lar! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

Don't send text files to the translators but rather an easy editing/translation toolkit that handles the %1 and stuff. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

And make sure that some names (people and places) just can not be translated.

It should be possible to scroll through the possible %1 to check if the sentence is always correct. *edit* Or when to use a different sentence for some words.

Translators should be able to quickly view all text related to one quest or one object/person through filters/views so that they can check if it is consistent.

Probably this tool will be quite interesting to program... but if you have one that is working you could probably sell it to other software developers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

Nice idea, Tut, but how do you want to deal with "der, die, das" and the other articles in German? Or the different singular/plural forms? The idea behind placeholders is that you write something only once and then it is used a billion times... if you have to check every billion variation, the placeholder doesn't make sense.

Save the articles together with the word you are using placeholders for. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

But maybe it is much more complicated than I can now think of. I was never good in translating... nor writing... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

If I would have to do lots of translations I would rather think about how to make such a translation helper toolkit thingy. Or how to solve this %1 replacement thing right from the start. There must be a way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />