Larian Studios Forums Divine Divinity (English) Technical Problems any word on a new patch?

There were some murmurs about this on the previous site. Any news?

thanks

wintermute

it's still in testing at CDV AFAIK

Let's hope it's ready soon, I'm waiting for it before I start up a new game <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

yeah.. since early feburary... <grumble> what can you do though?

beg?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

I see the game is being released for the Mac and MorphOS. Perhaps this is why the patch for the (PC) is taking so long? Seem's to me and this is just my opinion, you would want to make sure the game works (properly) on the 1st system it was released for before trying it on other systems!

probably. maybe they can also add some more quests <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

Hi Sheba,

I understand you, but the patch is not delayed because of the Mac version.
The patch is currently being tested in the CDV testdepartment and for now we can't do anything more. We really hope to release the patch asap, but it needs a thorough test before releasing it.

an estimate on time??

You'd think with all the press about DD now released in Country X, DD now released in Country Y, that there would be more emphasis on this...

(sorry for the gripe, just sat through another Local cable company commercial... They have all sorts of great deals for any NEW customers... While I still wait for someone to come out and take a look at my cable modem signal strength(intermittently losing my cable modem)... Makes me think they have 2-3 times the ppl in marketing than the do for support/technical stuff.)

I can understand the need for testing, but you have to admit 2 months of testing is quite along time? For those that purchased the game and can't play at all, or even return the game while waiting for a patch...its been a very long wait! But thanks for answering even if its not the answer we wanted to hear <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I really hope to bring you some better news soon.
If I was a tester, I would play day and night for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Unfortunately we don't have testers in-house (in Larian Studios). CDV is in charge of testing the patch, and we have to wait for them.

What has CDV got that the gung-ho geeks on this forum don't? I bet there are several folks that have had experience testing beta patches for game companies (me, for example) that would be happy to test the patch privately. I bet we could do it faster, too. A lot of game companies I have seen utilize their gamers as beta-testers, so it is not an unusual practice.

just my 2 cents.

Lynn, we realize that CDV is testing the patch, but that has been happening for quite a long time. They obviously can't be doing that in a vacuum, and must be sharing defect lists, etc. with you guys at Larian (or how else would any problems be addressed). So, why can't you give us an update on the status. I know its problematical to give out hard dates to people, but as was stated by others on the old forum, an occasional status would be appreciated by your customers. I remember an update from Lar near the end of December saying he hoped the patch would be out shortly (like in a couple of weeks or something). So I went away and played some other games in the meantime. Threee months later, still no patch and Larian is shovelling off the responsibility to CDV (a pretty scary thought in itself).

I'm not trying to flame you or Larian, and I really love the game, but a lot of your customers are really looking forward to a patch and I think you guys could be a little more forthcoming with information. The "We have to wait for CDV" smacks of towing the corporate line. Hope it has not come to that for you guys. Btw, for all the "defenders" that will say wait till it's done, I agree, no sense releasing a patch unless it works right. All I want is a realistic status of this issue, not a "it's not in our hands anymore".

Astral,
[still waiting after many months for that all elusive new patch] <sigh>

And let me add...I can guarentee we are motivated!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Agreed.

I have beta tested games and add-ons and patches. Gamer testing can be a valuable tool. Especially in light of CDV's extremely slow response to this patch.

However, I wonder if it's possible that there may be contractual obligations between Larian Studios and CDV that requires any patches and/or add-ons, to go through CDV before Larian Studios can release it to the public? I certainly hope not, but it is a possiblity. Perhaps Lynn or someone else in the know could shed some light on this?

<All I want is a realistic status of this issue, not a "it's not in our hands anymore".>

I didn't mean it like this, AstralVoyager. All I wanted to say is, that the patch was delivered to CDV, and as long as CDV don't put the light on green to release the patch, we can't release anything. That's just the "procedure".
I myself can't give you any more info on the patch, because I don't communicate with CDV regarding this. Not because I don't care, on the contrary. I'll check with Lar if he can give you more info.

I think you guys should go over to CDV HQ personally, and slap those guys with large blunt objects. Especially the testers.

Or take their leader hostage. Then demand the patch to hurry up. They get one week. After that, send back the leader... piece by piece... one piece a day... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Lynn, appreciate your help with this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Heyo. I pulled this out of the german section of the forum and translated as best I could (with help). This is the only direct response from CDV about the patch that I have seen. This was originally posted last week.

Marlene's info from CDV
>>>also, es gibt bei cdv anscheinend noch jemand, der mails liest und auch beantwortet.<<<

So, there is still someone who reads and replies to emails at CDV.


>>hier die mail die ich soeben ergalten habe:<<

Here is the mail I just received:

>>Sehr geehrte Frau xxx,<<

Dear mrs. xxx,

>>>ich kann Ihren Ärger über die lange Wartezeit auf den
angekündigten Patch durchaus verstehen, würde mir
wahrscheinlich ähnlich gehen.<<<

I can thoroughly understand your frustration at the long wait on the announced patch, I probably would feel the same way.

>>>Warum Ihnen, und allen anderen Fans von „Divine
Divinity“, der Patch immer noch nicht zur Verfügung
steht, hat aber folgende Gründe:<<<

Why you, and all of the other "Divine Divinity" fans are still awaiting the patch are for the following reasons:

>>>Da der Patch alle bekannten, noch nicht behobenen
Fehler ausbügeln und nach Möglichkeit KEINE neuen
Fehler erzeugen soll, und die zu behebenden Fehler
sowohl technischer wie auch inhaltlicher Natur sind,
muss „Divine Divinity“ mit allen Quests, Klassen und
Fertigkeitsvariationen durchgespielt, verifiziert und
getestet werden. Und dies erfordert nun mal seine
Zeit, da „Divine Divinity“ durch seine komplexe und
nicht-lineare Spielstruktur nicht in wenigen Stunden
auf Herz und Nieren geprüft werden kann.<<<

Everyone said that the patch has not yet ironed out all reported mistakes (bugs?), and should introduce NO new mistakes if possible, and to remove the mistakes, both technical and substantive (gameplay) in nature, Divine Divinity must be played all the way through with all of the possible variations of quests, classes, and stats, skills etc., to become thoroughly tested and verified. And the complex and non-linear game structure means that "Divine Divinity" cannot be tested in a few hours.

>>>Ich kann Ihnen hiermit versichern, der Patch ist in
Arbeit und wird Ihnen in wenigen Wochen zur
Verfügung stehen. Ich möchte mich für Ihre Geduld
und Ihr Entgegenkommen bedanken und würde mich
freuen, wenn Sie und andere Fans weiterhin mit
Engagement und Einsatz uns auf die Sorgen und Nöte
der „Divine Divinity“-Community aufmerksam machen.<<<

I can tell you this, the patch is still being worked on, and we will announce it's release to you in a few weeks. I would like to thank you for your patience and your kindness, and would be happy if you would bring to our attention any other worries and needs of the "Divine Divinity" community.

>>>Mit freundlichem Gruß
Ihr CDV Team <<<

Sincerely,
your CDV team

Thanks for the translation Sit Toejam. Let's hope we don't have to depend too much on the ability or speed of CDV to get this patch out - their rep around here for helping is pretty grim. I think the idea of letting a group of users help beta test is a good one. At the speed CDV is going, it sounds like one guy is playing the game (oops - testing) for maybe one hour a day!

Well, I'd say it is possible that CDV is busy testing one or several of their other published games at the same time, but I don't really know. While I admire their dedication to making sure that the games they publish are properly tested (if that is what it is; there have been reports to the exact opposite as well), I definetly think the faster way to go would be with private/public beta testing. Unfortunately, as things stand now, Larian's hands are tied waiting for CDV. I have nothing for Kudos for larian WRT to this game, I just think they may have gotten stuck with a below average publisher.

nothing to do but wait it out.

Still waiting for some word from Lar on this topic. Please Lar, let us know what is happening with the patch and what stage CDV is at with it. It would really be nice if you could let us know what is fixed, known outstanding issues, etc. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

Thanks!

I don't know if Lar actually knows anything about CDV's testing. although they do have to give him feedback

Hm ... but while we are waiting for the patch, Lar could tell us, which bugs the patch should heal.

yup, he or Lynn, I asked for it, but I think that it'll be announced when the patch is released <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Well, I can't really believe that Larian does not know the status of testing with CDV. One would assume that there are test scripts to run, defect tracking lists, etc. etc.

The Larian dev team should be right up to date on this unless they have a very abnormal software development process!

Unless they started a new project already.. Say an expansion, or sequel? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

jvb, wishing that thats true.

everybody I think jvb

<sigh> - well, I guess we will be getting the silent treatment once again from the Larian developers. I really don't understand why it is so hard to tell your CUSTOMERS (the people who buy your product and keep you in business) what the status of a patch is. Larian needs a little help in the professionalism department imho. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />

that's not entirely true what you say imho. OK, they SHOULD 'leak' some info on what has been fixed, but not all. but maybe they are not allowed to leak info from CDV, ever thaught of that??

Well no, it never occured to me that a developer (or a publisher (cdv)) would not inform their customer base regarding what is happening with a particular product. I have been developing software for about 20 years, and have always kept my customers fully informed if problems were found or they were waiting and asking me for info.

Larian has already stated that the patch is in the publisers hands for testing. Great, so tell us what was addressed in the patch and what the eta for release is. If the patch went to CDV, there must already be a list of fixes.

They (CDV - who has been testing for quite a while now) should know where in the test cycle they are and be interfacing with Larian for updates to problems they have found, etc. They should also have a schedule (as should Larian) and so be able to estimate with reasonable accuracy what the release date will be.

Like I said before, I'm not trying to flame Larian. I love the game, this forum is good, and I am a fan. But I am also a customer, and deserve to be treated with respect by them (read given up to date info on questions that I am asking, which are really not for any secret knowledge, just for an approximate date when some defects (aka bugs) are going to be repaired, and what those repairs will be).

yes, I'm a SW developer myself and I keep my customers informed as well, BUT have you encountered 1 GAMEdevelopment company so far that has kept their clients up to date??

ok, sometimes they announce a patch and give some details about it, but I have NEVER EVER heard of one that actually says, ok, we're this far.. ok, we're almost there,..

it's at CDV, and they're incompetent... VERY incompetent <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

I'm not mad at you though, just at CDV

Bioware is pretty good at letting it's customers know the status of an upcoming patch. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

it is?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> for bioware then, I'm wrong. but then again, that's only 1 company <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

Yes they are (and kudos to them for that). Other companies that would like to emulate their success would do well to observe how well Bio treats their fans <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Oh well, guess if I am going to be continually ignored by the devs here I will go off and play something else for a while. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Talk to you guys later! Have fun with <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />

Well, they are not the only company Viper. When Warlords Battlecry II came out I was having a problem and emailed SSG. The lead dev wrote me back, sent me a test version to run with logs to return to him, and then informed me that my problem would be solved in the next update (and he gave me an approximate time frame). Let me tell you, I was very impressed with the service.

And SSG is a small developer! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> Can't wait for Warlords IV!

i think i know the cause of the delay... it all boils down to $$$$..

i have already wasted 50 bucks on this game.. how about all of us chip in 10-20 bucks to speed up the process.. think of it that DD is a shareware.. an incomplete shareware.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think that's a bit harsh on the team that made such a great game. Are you currently unable to play/finish the game? I have not had any problems other than a few broken quests.

If you have wasted 50$ already maybe you should just return the game, it might make you feel better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I'm sure a new patch will take some time to throughly test.

Are you having some specific problem you are unable to proceed in the game with?

ow brother, that people can be so personally offended by something that is quite normal imho <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

believe me 50 bucks is no big deal for me.. when i paid 50 bucks, i paid for support too.. decent support to the least. I am complaining because it has a lot of bugs.. i am complaining because i LOVE this game such that even now 4 months later i am STILL waiting for the fix so that i can STILL play the game..

I paid 40 bucks for Master of Orion 3.. it's such a shi.ty game that after 3 days, i shelved it.. i am not going to ask the publisher for a patch or anything..

My advice to everyone who is sick of waiting for the patch: mail CDV, a lot - Throw in some yelling if ye have to... It's probably not gonna solve much more than posting here, but it's not gonna solve less

you can yell at me all you want the patch wont come any sooner.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Why would we yell at you - do you work for CDV?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I am not demanding the patch right away, I was just hoping Larian could do us the curtesey of giving us a status once and a while (like every couple of weeks or so, not once every 3 months). Seems that is too much work for them, so we end up with long threads like this one discussing the patch, wishing it would hurry up, complaining about what a feeble publisher CDV is, etc. etc.

I would just like the lead dev, software dev manager, or whatever that person is called (I am assuming that is Lar), to spend 5 minutes of his time every couple of weeks to keep his customers in the loop. Not too much to ask from a professional game company. <sigh>

nope I dont that was the joke <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ah - I thought so actually <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

phew I thought that joke was a little weak but wow

indeed, sometimes it's a bit tense on the forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

yeah people need to chiiiiil

We are chilling - out here in the cold <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

cold?? it's pretty warm where I'm sitting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Let me tell you something about the German version of Morrowind - Tribunal.

Release was on March 27. But, what a pity, obviously no one has tested it with the German version of Morrowind. Hm... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" /> The new journal-filtering-functions did not work as described.

And yesterday they released a beta-patch. They said "it works for us, try if it works for you, too". So, now I can play Tribunal, German version....

This may not be the best comparison, but to keep things in perspective for those of you concerned about a delayed patch and/or level of customer service, all I can say is:

D
I
A
B
L
O

2


Based on my experiences I'd say we're in way, way better shape with Larian/CDV on both issues. I'll bet we'll see a Divinity patch out before 2004...

thats cuz you keep rippin on your seat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

2004!?!?! Theres no wayim waiting that long for a patch that imho should of been out a month or so ago i dont understand why its taking CDV so long to test it when Larian say they already have

YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah.

i wanna say yeah to <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

YEAH <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Like I said MANY times be4, CDV is quite incompetent imho

YEAH <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Well, just went out and bought Morrowind. Maybe by the time I finish it and get tired of AOWII (if that ever happens <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> ), the patch will be complete.

Im thinking of returning my copy, sence i had it just a few days. Just after a few days playing i realize there is several huge problem with this game, the biggest one is the all fixed damage on the wepon skills do not work. The weapon skills that give you a procentage works correctly however. But there is several "show stoppers" beside this. So return the game and wait to see what the patch fixes is my recomendation. If there was a list on what the upcomming patch would fix the situation would not require this action.


/Mordan

How the situation on SARS in germany?

wow where did that come from.....I mean we always get off topic...but usually...ok sometimes there is a logical...semi-logical....ok screw it we all come in from left field all the time

You bought Morrowind and are worried about bugs??? I did not run into any bugs in the english version of DD that were "show stoppers" but morrowind, now that's another story! Well, at least with Morrowind, you can mod the game yourself to work around some bugs, which is cool, or try to basically rework how the whole game operates to suit your tastes. I actually found this to be more entertaining than the game itself; there is a large community devoted to modding this game.

good luck

Maybe something else on Morrowind. I like it very mutch but there is one big bug in it. Sometimes the games stops and closes just like that. I heard this comes because it has a memory leak. But if the games crashes "normaly" you get avery nice expanatin (like sorry, bla bla bla). Although the patches have improved this (it happens less), my advise is SAVE offen. It is even more importent than in DD.

Yep - had a couple of crashes in MW already. I guess I was naively hoping that since it has been out so long, most of the problems would have been fixed. First crash - right to the metal - sheesh. Guess I'll play around with some of the settings and see what I can do to make it run properly.

Maybe I will have to go back to IWD2 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> - I never finished it cause <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> came out right after I started it, and then I got totally hooked on Divinity (think I was also suffering from an overdose of the Infinity Engine).

Its a sad situtation that bugs seem to be the norm these days. Ya buy a game, just assume there will some kind of problem, and hope you can get around it or a patch comes out soon to fix it - <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

too true. But, the problem really is, that publishers and investors put so much pressure on developers to get their games out at an ever increasing pace. Just a few years ago, a typical game cycle was 2-3 years to fully develop a game. Now, it is really less than 1 year, or you run the risk of losing your funding. the games have to be way more complex than they used to be as well, in order to compete.

It doesn't suprise me that most games have bugs on release, what surprises me is that new games from relatively unknown companies like Larian can even make it into the scene given todays market constraints. That's why companies like Black Isle are so successful; they released one really good game with an engine that was adaptable and (relatively) stable, and then basically released many clones all using the same engine to cut down on production time. Most of us think the "Baldur's Gate" game engine is a bit worn, and yet they still are releasing games made with it (Icewind Dale II just came out here). IMO, games will become ever buggier on release so long as unrealistic production schedules are insisted on by publishers and investors. or else you will get ever more and more clones being produced using the same tired game engines.

The only way we as consumers can help slow this madness is to make sure we support new game developers buy buying their products (if they look even remotely creative). Hopefully, publishers and investors will get the clue that innovation is important too, and will back off on the unrealistic production schedules.

just my 2 cents

I've experienced these crashes with both Morrowind and Divine Divinity.
Just yesterday, DD jumped to the desktop and closed with no warning.

[quote
too true. But, the problem really is, that publishers and investors put so much pressure on developers to get their games out at an ever increasing pace. Just a few years ago, a typical game cycle was 2-3 years to fully develop a game. Now, it is really less than 1 year, or you run the risk of losing your funding. the games have to be way more complex than they used to be as well, in order to compete.

IMO, games will become ever buggier on release so long as unrealistic production schedules are insisted on by publishers and investors. or else you will get ever more and more clones being produced using the same tired game engines.

The only way we as consumers can help slow this madness is to make sure we support new game developers buy buying their products (if they look even remotely creative). Hopefully, publishers and investors will get the clue that innovation is important too, and will back off on the unrealistic production schedules.

[/quote]

And we can blame all the pirates out there that don't bother to buy any games.

Did you really stop any other processes on your PC like firewall processes or any other Norton or whatever processes?

When I play Morrowind (Windows 98 SE), I usually kill everything except explorer and systray. Afterwards I see with prcview 6 Windows-processes running. And my Morrowind never crashes.

I do thid al the time when i play Morrowind. The number of chrashes goes down big time. But somethime they still "hit " me. But much less frequent then before though. Also get the latest patches every time, it helps.