Larian Studios Forums Divinity II The Dragon Knight Saga / Flames of Vengeance (English) Help/Tips/Tricks Time For a New Laptop; Suggestions?

I don't want to turn this into confusing graphics discussion. But for anyone interested here's the breakdown...

The current state of graphics in both notebook and desktops is such that all new PCs will have integrated graphics. This is does not mean all PCs currently sold have integrated graphics. I speak only to products recently released or those that will be released.

Integrated graphics come free either as the result of the chipset--the main collection of chips that makes your mainboard function--or the chip itself whether Intel or AMD. The primary exceptions are the high end (extreme/black) processors and high end chipsets that forgo integrated graphics in exchange for higher clock speeds and enthusiast options (such as overclocking).

So whether you want integrated graphics options or not, its likely that any machine you buy will have it. Don't think of this as a bad thing. It means all PCs will have a certain base level of 3D graphics capabilities.

Discrete graphics are manufacturer options. The extra graphics hardware is either used in place of integrated graphics, that is disabled, or inconjunction, where it provides a graphical boost and/or power savings.

Not every manufacturer takes the time to implement power saving schemes using the integrated graphics. However, since the enabling the option is essentially free, you do see many new gaming notebooks that also support battery saving scheme when not gaming.

Candlebbq,

I don't mind being "pushed" to look at other brands. Actually, the last two computers (this laptop and the desktop it replaced) were/are both Dell. Previous to that... um, golly, that was like, a decade ago so I don't remember-- I think it was a custom build through a local shop!

I just did a custom build (for comparative/explorative purposes of course) at HP (I've not been a huge HP fan, because it seemed there was less quality-- but that was a decade+ ago. Perhaps they've come up. Without realizing until after I did the build that you said to check HP's dv7, I was surprised to see what I could get for the money-- I can go above $1,000, I just don't want to. But, with the dv7t build I did, including getting a wireless printer (my current printer is about had it--it's the all-in-one I got w/ my desktop Dell about 7 or 8 years ago), I was pretty amazed that I could put a little more "umph" into the computer, as well as getting some nifty little gadgets and carrying case just because. . . for the first time in over a decade I'm actually looking at an HP!!

Perhaps I'm just vacillating too much, but I really want to invest in a computer that's going to last at least 5 years (I know, that's pushing it w/ the rapid progress of technology these days). I won't go "refurb" because I had an horrible experience the one and only time I tried it (first laptop, and it worked for about 5 hours total!). I will only buy new, and, come to think of it, the reason I started w/ Dell all those years ago was because of the ability to customize. I don't do the out-of-box thing (hubby does, and he hasn't made the best choices).

Now, given the three brands I'm currently looking at (Dell, HP, Toshiba), which tend to be the better quality and longevity? The Dell XPS I 'made' which was very similar to the HP I did was nearly a $400 difference (Dell being more expensive, including the 'extras' that were nearly comparable w/ HP 'extras'). Toshiba seems to not be nearly as customizable as Dell or HP.

And then reading reviews! Wow! It just gets more confusing. *sigh* The search and vacillation continue.

~~CierraShore
p.s.
Again my thanks for the replies. Raze, how can I tell if I have to manually switch to the discrete or, is that why it's called "discrete" now instead of "dedicated"-- not having to manually switch.

EDIT: Just found this through reviews. Origin PC's that are massively hard-core gaming laptops that are incredibly customizable, but completely out of my price range. Still, in case there are any hard-core gamers following this thread, I wanted to mention that it looks like an awesome gaming computer. www.originpc.com Way cool to play around w/ how incredibly customizable it is. Wow!

I completely understand the desire you make your money last as long as possible. I think you have already picked out an excellent price point that has the best value for the money. When I make a purchase I usually aim to purchase a top-of-line unit because some how it assuages my concerns about its durability and usefulness. But what may have been sound economics many years ago, no longer apply to electronics. I think the best option is to purchase something that fits your needs now and for any software you think you will be running in the foreseeable future; not necessarily software that you think may come out in the future, but software you don't have but think you might buy. Productivity software and web browsers will certainly run on any machine you purchase today. Newer version will continue to run on the machine five years down the line. But games with latest eyecandy features likely won't run well on older hardware. This is specially true of notebooks that have slower equivalents to their desktop counterpart.

Just in case your interested in the switchable graphics feature...

All new notebooks that have the feature list it under the marketing terms Optimus (for nVIDIA) and Switchable Graphics (for ATI/AMD). Many notebooks can be hacked to enable the feature, but your mileage and desire to mod your notebook may vary.

nVIDIA has a list here: http://www.nvidia.com/object/optimus_technology.html

AFAIK ATI/AMD does not have a list, but there is a list compile of both ATI and nVIDIA notebooks compiled by netizens: http://forum.notebookreview.com/wha...49-list-laptops-switchable-graphics.html

Discrete and dedicated are the same thing, referring to graphics chips (ie not integrated). Not all dedicated cards will be good for gaming, but they should all be better than integrated.

As Candlebbq said, if you are looking at a laptop that uses duel video chips, that will be listed in the features. It is highly unlikely you would run into a manual switch, though. I'm about 4 months behind reading a computer magazine, and have not looked at any tech sites online for 5 or 6 months, and even then the first generation of devices that used a manual switch were outdated. It is only early adopters that are willing to put up with that inconvenience; once the first automated system came out manual switches became a hassle rather than a necessary step to enable a cool feature.

Thank you once again, candlebbq (btw, I like the idea of a candle bbq-- w/ marshmallows!).

I have recently remembered I switched graphic cards on my Dell desktop not too long after getting it (a few months... maybe a year or two?), the card I replaced the original with was an ATI card. I switched because there was a problem w/ the mouse (which came w/ the order) and some other graphical problems; the tech said there was a problem w/ the graphics card and to replace it. I did, but never did get the darned thing to work correctly! Thus, I have realized, I have a bad flavor for ATI, though perhaps it wasn't the problem.

You've made good points that can easily guide me in the decision making process. You're right, what was good economics back in the day (I started on computers before hard drives came about!) are no longer applicable w/ today's technology.

Okay, point 1) Figure out price range [which I've already done]. Got that. Point 2) Look at what works for me now, and what software I may use in the near future (3-5 years?).

I must admit I prefer the nVIDIA graphics, but using that brand came after the whole issue as mentioned above. I've had no conflicts this time around, w/ the nVIDIA on my laptop.

Hmmmmm... HP still worries me, but boy did that build look nice!

HP Build:

dv7t
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit OS; Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73 GHz 6MG L3 cache) w/ Turbo boost;
1GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5650 DDR3 graphics for quad core (this is one of my concerns--ATI)
8GB DDR3 system memory (2 DIMM)
640 GB 7200RPM HDD w/ HD protection
6 cell standard battery
17.3" diagonal HD+ LED BrightView Wide screen (1600x900)
TrueVision webcam & integrated mic
LightScribe Super Multi 8x DVD+/-RW w/ Double layer Support
Intel wireless N Card w/ Bluetooth
standard keyboard
Cyberlink DVD Suite Premium

+ additional 'options' that I 'need', such as a wireless all-in-one printer (& a cable, because it's not incl.), port replicator, external 640GB disk drive, auto (car) adapter, headset, speakers, 4 port USB hub, & backpack

Total: $1,891 (rounded up)

Dell

XPS 17

Specialized cover (it's a purtiful color)
Windows Pro 64-bit OS; Intel Core i5 (2.66GHz, 4 threads, turbo boost up to 3.2 GHz, 3M cache)
nVIDIA GeForce GT 435M 1GB graphics w/ Optimus (hey! There's that term you mentioned!)
8GB shared dual channel DDR3 memory
640 GB 7200rpm SATA hdd
Blu-ray disc BD-Combo (reads and writes to DVD/CD) w/ Roxio Easy CD&DVD burn
9 cell battery
backlit keyboard
Bluetooth
Recovery DVD for OS
DataSafe online backup 2GB for 1 year

extras
Netgear Push2TV Adapter; wireless mouse (mine is dying); docking station w/ VGA/DVI & Ethernet
1TB portable HDD; HDMI audio video cable; all-in-one wireless printer;

Total: $2,125 (rounded up)

The Toshiba build is on a 16" screen and was listed previously.

The Origins build... just got lost (apparently, I was multi-tasking a bit too much). But it was close to $3,000, and that was without extra booty!

Hum ho, must make a decision. . . someday. Probably sleep on it and do some more 'research' later.

Thanks again!

All best,
~~CierraShore
p.s.
Will be playing DKS for a long time to come, so long as I can transfer my DKS to the new comp! I downloaded from Larian store, so I'm hoping it'll be fairly simple to transfer to my new comp.

p.p.s.
I'm stressing about buying a computer, when I'm in the middle of buying a house, which is going to require me to find a washer and dryer and fridge. . . are my priorities slightly out of whack?

If you uninstall DKS on the old computer (while online) it will automatically revoke the activation for that computer (or you can do so manually online). I think with digital versions you can have the game activated on 3 computers at the same time, so that may not be necessary if your kids are allowed, and would want, to play DKS as well.

There's a little contradiction to a candle bbq. I didn't think it was possible but google and you shall receive some videos of people making candles perform amazing acts of pyrotechnics.

Each machine has some fairly balanced specs. I'm actually surprised, but I shouldn't be, that the prices landed around the $2k mark. I assume that's how these OEM make their money-- off extras.

The ATI concern you mentioned is no longer an issue with Windows. This applies to desktop applications and games alike. ATI has lackluster support for open source and their linux drivers are poor; they've been pushing the OSS community to do their own work without proprietary ATI code. But, that's a different subject entirely... unless you plan on running linux in addition to windows.

EDIT:
If you're a gamer, a computer is always a top priority

I'd have to agree. I don't know anyone who has a computer but goes w/o a printer. That just doesn't make any sense! I've used the *bleep* out of my Dell 922 or whatever it is. It's about dead-- gripes about wanting to retire. I tell it to shut up, close the lid, do it's job, and I won't have to smack it-- then it cooperates for a little while. But then there's the problem of ink cartridges...apparently the cartridges stopped getting made for machines after they reach the ancient age of... 7+ years! And then there's the whole deal w/ these new t.v.'s (first NEW t.v. I've bought in... um, since before my son was born! He's a pre-teen)...

Wow, thinking about all that has gotten me sleepy. Time for bed.

Thanks to all the contributors. I will ponder more later, vacillate repeatedly, and finally come to a conclusion... but I might close on my house and get my appliances before that... and by that time, there might be a newest latest and greatest laptop out!

~~CierraShore

[EDIT]
p.s.

Okay, thoughts on the two builds listed previously, but HP w/ a 1TB extra HDD instead of the 640, and a couple of other 'extras' change that raised the price (to my nice surprise) only $100. I am really leaning towards this build, in spite of the ATI graphics card, and in spite of my feelings about HP. The build for the price is what's making me seriously, seriously consider it. Given the major hardware upgrades, I would like some more input from other on whether HP is a better choice over the Dell build? Toshiba has a smaller screen size, and I really am looking for a desktop replacement, so that's a factor. I don't care for a glossy screen, but I might be able to get over that if this is a really rockin' build. I do not have enough experience to guide me in my choice, and am just kind of going with my gut while doing the custom build. By all means, I am open to having the build "picked apart," so that I can gain understanding and know better how to make a kicking build which won't require me to do a whole lot afterward-- as in, I want it kickin' straight out of the box!

In case anyone is wondering how I went from comparing Asus/Toshiba to HP/Dell, um, a whole lot of vacillation, and being directed to think outside my box of antiquated information. Also, all the reviews I read of Asus that were 'negative' were mostly because of serious lack of customer support. I like their Bamboo model, but it doesn't come in the 17" screen size, nor (to my finding), the i7 processor. Just a little FYI to anyone who cares.

Thanks again, all!

p.p.s.
Candlebbq, I just re-read your information about graphics cards, and this time it's finally 'clicked' in my brain. Admittedly, I'm a little slow in. . . well, in most areas. Thanks for posting that information. Can I assume, in putting together everything that's been written here, that ATI graphics card on a Windows system (particularly Win7 OS) won't cause my previously horrid issues, and they are competitive with nVidia?

Thanks again for your time.

~~CierraShore

Okay, then... my impatience got the better of me. I hope I don't regret the choice!

With only minor changes to the accessory portions, I went with the HP dv7 custom build:
dv7t (champagne color)
Windows 7 Pro 64-bit OS; Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73 GHz 6MG L3 cache) w/ Turbo boost;
1GB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5650 DDR3 graphics for quad core (this is one of my concerns--ATI)
8GB DDR3 system memory (2 DIMM)
640 GB 7200RPM HDD w/ HD protection
6 cell standard battery
17.3" diagonal HD+ LED BrightView Wide screen (1600x900)
TrueVision webcam & integrated mic
LightScribe Super Multi 8x DVD+/-RW w/ Double layer Support
Intel wireless N Card w/ Bluetooth
standard keyboard
Cyberlink DVD Suite Premium


It won't be ready until next month (wahhhh, no immediate gratification! But, that's the result of customizing a computer, right?). I may post back here a review of the comp if any one is interested in seeing how it stands up to general productivity, and most definitely in regards to Larian games, particularly the DKS!

Thanks for all the info, links, and input from everyone. I appreciate it. I also hope that readers gained valuable insight as well.

All best,
~~CierraShore

I have a HP notebook somewhere around here. It's an Elitebook 8740 that I requested for its "dreamcolor" display. I haven't had any major issues with it or previous HPs in the past 5 years; I will concede that they've been business machines so any minor repairs I had were handled expeditiously.

I actually have the Dell equivalent, Studio XPS 16, of the unit you purchased sitting on my desk right now. I usually keep it here for a few small tasks because it looks good. I picked it up after seeing it featured on tv ads and at various trade shows.

The performance is quite good; and I've had no problems with the ATI graphics whatsoever. It won't play any current titles on high, since the graphics are a bit dated compared to the monster that's in the ASUS and also in the current generation Alienware 17" notebook. However, medium plays nicely with very few hickups. The graphics card in HP you ordered is a slight bit faster so it should have less issues playing games on med to high. If you're moving from an older notebook to this one, the graphics performance should be a pleasant surprise.

Just something I wanted to mention...

Small caveat: I didn't add this info before since Intel was in the process of releasing a fixed version of their hardware.

Assuming you were to wait a while as you intimated, I would have suggested waiting for the Sandy Bridge CPU upgrades that manufacturers are starting to push out. The upgrade primarily affects CPU performance and not graphics. There is a very significant increase to CPU performance and battery life on Sandy Bridge notebooks. It should have been released already, but many OEMs pulled their offerings after Intel announced a bug in their chipset. Its bad of me to make you second guess your purchase after you've already made it. But I wanted to let you know in case this affects your opinion of the machine since this upgrade will begin showing up on manufacturer websites around the time you machine ships. Hopefully now, it won't come as a surprise. If this is something you definitely would consider I assume HP will still allow you to cancel at this stage on the build process.

Thanks for the heads up, candlebbq! I had read mention of "Sandy Bridge," but information was scarce, and through building various comps that was never an option. I wonder if I can upgrade it later? Probably not.

I'm not a hard-core gamer, honestly. I still love the graphics of Divine Divinity, but thoroughly enjoyed Ego Draconis as well as Gothic 3. I don't have to have graphics set on "high" and I've never done "overclocking" because 1) I don't know how and 2) I don't see the point for the games I play.

Part of why I was tempted to hold off was because of the Sandy Bridge thing I read about, but as there was no definite date for release, and I'm at the beginning process of moving, I'd have to either wait until spring to get a new comp (thus the impatience), or get one now so that it ships before I move! What a predicament!

Thanks again for the heads up. I'll see if I regret my choice of computer, but seeing as how it's been a long time since I've used an HP, and it's easy to find HP compatible hardware, I'm hoping it'll turn out fine for a 5+ year investment.

All best,
~~CierraShore

Denial!

Personally, I do like cranking all the graphics up just to the point where they impact performance enough for me to start moaning about it. I don't do OCing though because I know my luck, and my luck will be that I have the rare component that'll catch fire if I try.

As for regret, I could have the best price/performance combination that's ever been seen in the history of personal computing and I'd still get a major case of "the grass is greener" in no time at all. Sigh. There's no pleasing some people; or at least there's no pleasing me.

Just received my computer! Doing the set up on it right now.

Quick question, that I hope can be answered here. I am not familiar with using "personal portable HDD." Can I install DKS to the external portable hard-drive and play it from that on whichever computer I hook it up to, or must I install it to a computer's HDD?

Thanks a bunch.

~~CierraShore

What connection does the external hard drive use? There is (probably) nothing preventing you from installing the game on an external drive, but playing off one may cause performance problems. I'd guess a USB 2 drive would have issues, while USB 3 should be fine (but I've never tried playing a game off an external drive, if you don't count SCSI drives in an external enclosure).

You might be better off just keeping the saves on the external drive, and installing the game on the systems you will be playing it on. There are various ways to backup your saves to the external drive, or get Windows to redirect the game so it saves there directly, or even to sync the saves online using Dropbox, etc.

Hmmm, Okay. So I'll need to uninstall from my old comp (so as to retain the 3 registration abilities-- or something to that effect), download to my new comp, and use the external drive for save games. That pretty much makes sense (I think).

I'm not sure yet how to go about with the whole un-install from one and/or install onto this new one-- I purchased digital copy from Larian Shop, so I'll have to browse the forums for an answer I suppose. I had tried searching for an answer to the question I asked, but hadn't found an answer yet. Thanks for giving info.

All best,
~~CierraShore
p.s.
Can't wait to 'break in' this new laptop using DKS! I have 21 days to make sure it's all good... now just to download the games (legally) and play them!

Usually you cannot plug in an external hard disk and play a game on another computer. This is because games often use DRM to restrict the number of devices (computers) you can install or play the game on.

In your case you mentioned you can authorize 3 computers for your game. Installing a copy on each computer is the way to go.

Unfortunately, it will take a little effort to resume gameplay from a different computer. You will need to copy the saved games files from one computer and save it to another before resuming play. There is no mechanism to allow you to save the games to an external disk instead of your local disk. Installing to the external disk does not change this either.

I don't have an experiences with Larian Vault. However, I'm sure a member of the Larian staff would be happy to assist you once they read your post. Or you can try emailing them.

Thank you, candlebbq. I've been reading the FAQ's of the Larian Store, and I can install the activation code on three different computers. What I'm not sure about is whether or not I should un-stall on the 'old' laptop before downloading to the new laptop. I should find the answer before too long, though.

I didn't get too far into playing DKS on the 'old' laptop, so I can easily start over, and since I already played ED before the DKS/FoV came out... it's pretty quick knowing which quests to do and how to do them.

Grrr. The main problem I'm having w/ my new laptop is a sticky space bar! This makes typing quickly difficult, because I have to backspace so often to make corrections. :p

I don't plan on having to get another comp for another 5 years (that'd be my ideal), so the three activations through Larian Store should be sufficient, and if not, they wrote in the FAQ's that you can write them for special permission for increased (within reason) activations. I'm glad they realize people change computers fairly frequently, and that it's not all about pirating, yet they have taken measures to protect themselves. Pretty cool.

BTW, this HP is pretty! The keyboard layout is a little larger than the Vostro 1720 that I had, so it's more like a regular keyboard, but the keys aren't as "clunky" as a regular keyboard. My only problem is the sticky space bar! How annoy. Every couple of words it doesn't want to work. Humph.

I will post in this thread how this comp plays DKS (since I have already posted the build specs here), once I get a chance to do that.

What a great community it is here!

Now back to 'real life' of running backups and deleting stuff off the old computers.

Have a great week!

~~CierraShore

If you kept the downloaded file(s) on your old computer (or copied it/them to a USB drive or burned to DVD-R, etc), you can use that to install DKS on the new laptop. You don't have to re-download DKS unless you didn't keep the original downloaded file(s).

As long as you are online when you uninstall the game from the old computer that will automatically revoke one install, or you can do so later on Securom's website (ie if you are not online, or are not able to uninstall the program). It doesn't matter if you do this before or after installing the game on the new computer, as long as you do not already have it installed on 3 systems (re-installing on the same system is automatically detected, and doesn't use up another activation).


In Windows Vista/7 you can use symbolic links to point to a file/folder at a different location, which most programs will handle just like accessing the original file/folder. One of the examples in this howto article is having Steam games outside the Steam folder. As long as the drive letter for the external drive is consistent on each system, you could set Windows to have the game save files to the external drive. It would be safer to leave the saves on each computer, though, and run a program to synchronize them to the external drive (or online, via Dropbox or Windows Live Mesh, etc).

I don't mind helping, I find it relaxing

Your spacebar issue sounds like a defect. You should contact HP and have them correct the issue. Since it is a new purchase within 30 days they may elect to send someone to your premises to repair the issue or advance you a replacement unit.

I also did not suggest Raze's method of symlink to your saved games since they are in a Windows special folder. Catastrophic failure of Windows can occur if you start relocating special folders or subfolders. There are multiple articles about relocating a user profile to another drive that warn against this.

Although as Raze suggested using a backup program or sync program maybe an quick solution if you have time to configure it.

I'll be running this comp hard for the next 21 days to see how it handles. I took off the 'keep it pretty' sticky thing, and have had less problems w/ the space bar, and as I've continued to use the keys I've had less problems (though most has been mouse-work; updating and downloading, and moving things around, getting rid of 'bloat', like the 'trial' versions of items they include automatically. Not a whole lot of text work, other than a couple of emails and the postings here. But again, after removing the "keep it pretty" sticky thing that completely surrounded each key, well, I had less problems. I was hoping to keep it pretty, but that just won't work.

The keys are also quite different from the Dell laptop... kind of a mid-way between a regular sized keyboard ("clunky" keys), and regular 'smooth' laptop keys. Probably just take some time to get used to it.

I'll probably go ahead and just start a new game after having taken the HOURS to download DKS to this laptop, and later I'll uninstall it from the other... maybe. I know my kids are going to want to play it, but I haven't decided when they'll be "old enough" for the game. I guess I could do the uninstall, and then re-install later when they're old enough. I think Larian did great in that respect, in realizing how often people change computers and accommodating us! Way to go, Devs!

Don't think I want to hassle w/the whole folder-switch-a-roo. I'm having a hard enough time just trying to get my writings transferred from the Dell laptop to the external (personal) drive (which I thought worked, but found it didn't), and then loaded onto this one. Grrr... Such is life.

Now... gotta start downloading the patch (I think) so I can go to bed. It's "late" even for me!

Thanks all!

~~CierraShore