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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jan 2011
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...so help me do so.
There are lot of things in this game that I like: the humor that went into it, the artdesign, the basic concept. But I have one big issue with it; the combatgameplay, which is seems to be solely designed with the goal of causing the player as much frustration as possible.
I'm currently in Stone's flying fortress and got myself stuck in a section with a whole hord of enemies that will do one of two things the moment I go around a corner. Hit me with a bazilion magic blasts that'll both stunlock and kill me. Or hit me repeatedly with rushs that will also stunlock and kill me. After dying and reloading a couple of times it suddenly hit me: I wasn't having any fun whatsoever playing this. Now I know that with a lot of patience I can get lucky and win this. But that's just it, I'll win through luck and abusing AI exploits. That's not exactly the most satisfying of experiences.
My problem is that combat feels completely unfair. Enemies can just hit you from out of nowhere with the player having no warning, nor the abilities to block anything.
Please note: this isn't a mindless rant. This is a call for help. I really want to enjoy this game, so how do you lot deal with the combat?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2011
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Are you playing on Casual? What level? And yes, frontal assault is dead. Lure and kill off, working your way forward. (The flying fortresses are optional, so you can also just skip them if you don't like them)
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Support
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Support
Joined: Mar 2003
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What level are you? What difficulty setting? Do you have your creature summoned? If so, what class head are you using? Playing a ranger on nightmare I tried out a warrior head for my creature that I found after clearing the first section of Stone's fortress (after awhile I went back to using a mage head). I had a some trouble after that, but things went batter once I reloaded. See the spoiler below, where I quoted myself from the Who's playing DKS on nightmare difficulty ? topic (edited a bit for length); Senior Cinco also described his playthrough in that topic, using a more indirect combat style (with summons, the creature and Charm). Having had enough of narrow paths and caves for awhile, I headed to Stone's flying fortress. Approaching the first fortification, the first demon I killed brought me up to level 26. The rest of that area was relatively easy to clear, since the opponents were mostly spread out, though the level 29 beholder took awhile to kill. The chest near him was where I found a level 8 fighter head.
Flying up to the next higher level, there was an increase in difficulty. That combined with the creature's behaviour means I'm not sure how long it will last as a warrior. Using a fighter head seemed like it helped if the creature actually attacked the opponent I was attacking, but after finishing off the skeleton archers and mages on one of the wall sections, I moved back down to the ground level. I attacked a Black Ring mage, and the creature ran over to attack him after a few seconds (I would have preferred it use Rush Attack), but then got distracted, and veered off to attack someone else, drawing them into the fight. Even if the creature changed targets because it was attacked, I think that might just render the Ranger Stealth skill useless. Anyway, the creature seemed to change targets again (my view was mostly blocked), and then ran back to me, bringing at least 4 Black Ring members with it, one of whom Rush Attacked me as soon as he came into view, as an archer fired off a Stun Arrow through a gap in one of the ramps, so I never saw him, just the arrow coming at me. I (barely) survived the initial group attack and withdrew a bit, then after healing turned to attack those who followed me. I had to let them get closer that I would have liked since I couldn't target the first two, just the farthest one (I had a similar problem in the well cave with Zagan, where only some opponents showed when trying to cycle through targets, even if the one you wanted was close enough and in front of you). Once they were a couple seconds closer I could target them, and a volley of Splitting Arrows finished them both off. After that I targeted the third Black Ring member, but unfortunately didn't realize another had taken the long way around an obstruction until he was almost up to me, at which point it was too late to do anything. Next time I play I'll keep the fighter creature, but if it becomes distracted again and gets me killed, I'm going back to using a mage head.
My second attempt on the higher level in Stone's fortress was much, much easier. After loading my latest save and re-killing the last skeleton on the wall, I walked down the ramp so my creature could follow, and then turned left and continued along the wall around the next corner (same direction I went before). The next two opponents I fought together, but they were not terribly difficult, even with a skeleton archer on the wall above me (that I had passed), who I mostly couldn't target and barely came into view (though he didn't seem to have too much trouble getting a few shots off at me). Once I killed the two on the ground I turned to focus on the one on the wall, and moved around a bit until I could see and target him. The creature didn't draw anyone else into the fight... when I walked down the ramp and turned left, it walked or fell off the right side, and then apparently got stuck trying to run through the ramp, only coming around when I went back to look for it.
After finishing off that section of the fortress, I took a quick flight over to another rock (with the entrance to the Inner Passage). I wasn't too far from level 27 when I finished off the opponents in the vicinity of where I entered that fortification, so left to check merchants.
I returned to the fortress and cleared the rest of that rock, then took the teleporter to the Inner Passage. Due to a slight error in tactics, the fight with Xanlosch and Isabelle didn't go quite as well as I would have hoped. I got off a shot after the conversation ended and then headed out and off to the right a bit to get some room; when I turned, Xanlosch was attacking my creature and Isabelle was coming after me, but not terribly close. I fired an explosive arrow at Xanlosch, figuring as long as he didn't react right away, I would be able to follow with a close range Splitting Arrow for Isabelle and then move for another attack. He reacted right away. I don't know what my creature did after that, but it wasn't helping me, and I didn't last long with both of them focusing on me. I reloaded my save in the Inner Passage and left the way I came in; I want to take out the generator to get Xanlosch to summon a couple flying demons, but I have not cleared any of the anti-dragon defences yet in the fortress or taken out any flying opponents, which I should probably do first.
After finishing off the ground opponents in the rest of the fortresses, I returned to Stone's fortress and cleared the dragon defences, which brought me up to level 33. Even then the fight with Xanlosch could still be a bit of a challenge, primarily due to my character's Indomitable Will rating of 2. If I got hit with a stun arrow it would end up hurting, but usually not too bad. The main danger was getting stunned after destroying the generator, before being able to move away. Approaching the fortification from the front, after flying above the anti-dragon zone and transforming, I found the best way to take out the generator was to fire an arrow through the gap in the barrier around it, after moving over to the right inside the fortification; moving to the larger break in the barriers would put me much closer to Xanlosch and make it harder to avoid the Stun Arrow after the summoning cutscene. It is possible to survive after being stunned, but not if all 4 opponents target you at once (in one try I was hit with simultaneous attacks from both demons about a half second after being stunned, with an attack by Isabelle and then an exploding arrow about a half second after that, killing me). Keeping close to the right wall, the conversation with Xanlosch would be triggered at the entrance, but he would not fight right away afterwards, making it much easier to destroy the generator and get outside to where there was enough room to transform. Landing at the edge of an area can make things much easier than flying/jumping into the middle. Similarly, letting opponents come to you can be better than going to them, especially if they have friends around. You can see opponents on the mini-map, though sometimes in the flying fortresses they may be a level above or below you. If you are moving you can usually avoid Rush Attacks, though hit and run tactics work better with a mage or archer than a warrior.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jan 2011
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Are you playing on Casual? What level? And yes, frontal assault is dead. Lure and kill off, working your way forward. (The flying fortresses are optional, so you can also just skip them if you don't like them) -Normal, casual, hard; it doesn't matter. Difficulty isn't the issue as the combat isn't difficult, just tedious/frustrating. -My current level is 27. -Frontal assault means death, okay. But often so does just trying to lure an single enemy away from a big group with all the insta-hit-abilities. And that's asuming it's even feasible to do so, which it's often not when you're fighting in corridors or open areas. And lastly abusing the AI like that is what I've been doing so far and it's tedious and just not fun to me. I'm looking for alternatives to this. -They're optional? I know they're not main plot related, but given the importance of fighting enemies on equal levels in this game, I figured they're crucial for you to grind of couple of levels out of.
Last edited by Raygereio; 22/07/11 10:13 PM.
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Support
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Support
Joined: Mar 2003
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Lower difficulty settings should result in you doing more damage to opponents, as a percentage of their total health, and taking less damage, so combat should be easier and faster, while requiring less tactics. I think you will need to do a fair bit of the fortresses in order to level. What are your stats / skills / character build? Anyone help a newb with Warrior build ... ??? (possibly helpful if you are playing a warrior or ranger, but more focused on the early game)
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Aug 2009
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My strategy in the fortresses as a warrior was to always clear the ramparts first.
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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Jan 2011
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Thanks for the replies, but I’ve given up and uninstalled this game.
I actually soldiered on through after Stone’s fortress and finished all of the flying fortresses and Orobos Fyord. But the brick wall I ran into now is just downright inexcusable. The fight with Baal starts, he hits with a magic blast and I die instantly. Just like that. Don't even get the chance to draw my weapons. That’s on normal, for crying out loud. After a dozen reloads I just snapped and gave up.
This game has the basis to be awesome. It has a good concept, wonderful art design, a story that had me interested enough to continue playing the game despite the bad gameplay, funny dialogue that’s actually funny. Those good bits easily outweigh the nitpicks – like the clunky interface – that I have with this game. But what ruins it is the combat, it is frankly one of the worst designed and least enjoyable I’ve seen in a game in years. Sad really. Oh well; they can't all be winners, I guess.
Last edited by Raygereio; 24/07/11 07:59 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Jun 2011
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Thanks for the replies, but I’ve given up and uninstalled this game.
I actually soldiered on through after Stone’s fortress and finished all of the flying fortresses and Orobos Fyord. But the brick wall I ran into now is just downright inexcusable. The fight with Baal starts, he hits with a magic blast and I die instantly. Just like that. That's a known bug in boss fights. It's rare, but also unpredictable. I get around it by a) quicksaving before all boss fights, and if the bug hits, then b) turn the difficulty down to Casual. The bugged attack is still there, but it won't kill you, and you can recover and win the fight.
Last edited by serutan; 24/07/11 08:46 PM.
Specialization is for insects! - Robert A. Heinlein
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Support
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Support
Joined: Mar 2003
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Do you have the patch installed? The patch should prevent this problem, but unfortunately if it has already occurred in the save it will not undo it.
In the seemingly unlikely event you kept your saves, this problem can be fixed if you email your save to Larian, or worked around by several methods, in addition to reducing the difficulty level; one person could pause the game after the conversation and use the shield in the quest item section of the inventory to drop the damage, a trainer can fix your hit points until you get past that fight, with your creature (and maybe a summon) you could simply reload a save before that fight until Ba'al targets someone other than your main character and then take him out (or Hide in Shadows) before he can attack again.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2005
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Yeah, Hide in Shadows, Healing and a Summoning thing (Undead, Demon or Ghost) can be a real life saver!! Especially Summon Ghost (upgraded, so the Ghost is as high level as possible) : he Heals you + helps you using Fireballs ... Also : use Hide in Shadows and while you're invisible you can use the skill "Healing" without becoming visible again !!
On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin, it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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