I was watching the 2nd video on Kickstarter, and it looked like the dialogue used keywords instead of sentences for the main characters. One of the things I loved in both Divine Divinity and especially Divinity 2 were the hilarious answers you could come up with. Please don't tell me the keywords are actually going to replace this?
Yes, well, it's not like we didn't expect flak for the keywords. It's not even a cost issue, it's really about the amount of topics in the game - there's really a lot and if we put them as a questions, you get very large walls of text. (And you get character put in the way of questioning, because if we'd add several options for that too, then you'd a bible of text for each dialog)
We planned on testing the keywords in alpha and see how they went down - if it turns out everybody hates it, we'll adapt. But in the same breath I have to add - we had keyword haters play the game and come back to admit that actually, it worked quite well for them.
Yes, well, it's not like we didn't expect flak for the keywords. It's not even a cost issue, it's really about the amount of topics in the game - there's really a lot and if we put them as a questions, you get very large walls of text. (And you get character put in the way of questioning, because if we'd add several options for that too, then you'd a bible of text for each dialog)
We planned on testing the keywords in alpha and see how they went down - if it turns out everybody hates it, we'll adapt. But in the same breath I have to add - we had keyword haters play the game and come back to admit that actually, it worked quite well for them.
To be continued, for sure.
Perhaps that it could work out, but the intelligent dialogue system is something Larian can be proud of, can be identified with. Some other studio might get away with a keyword system, but we're talking about a major Larian attribute here. People that back DOS all experienced those writer skills, and they're counting on it once more. I am for sure!
True. Way back in Divine Divinity, there were gems like this:
Quote
Marked One: No, you don't know me. I got in through those stinking cellars that smell of boiled cabbage. Lanilor asked me to ask you to unfreeze him. You see, he's getting rather cold.
Mardaneus: ...Boiled cabbage? ...Ah the taste of... you're not an agent of Thelyron Hashnitor, are you? I'll destroy you, creature of darkness! Where's that spell...
Marked One: No, no, no! L-A-N-I-L-O-R, you know, your elven friend, pointy ears? He needs your help! You've frozen him, and now he would like to be unfrozen.
Yes yes, I can see we're going to lose this fight, but leave us the illusion plz that we have a choice in this matter. It's not so simple this time around because of the much larger reactivity in the world, really.
My voice for the classic dialogue system all the way! Humor and style of those dialogues in previous Divinity games was great, remarkable and most of all essentail to the overall quality of larian games!
Regarding the keywords, for me it seems like adding them as something extra to the dialogue trees allows for the best of both worlds, so long as they don't overwhelm the feel of conversation. Of course, how I feel about it very much depends upon its implementation, which can only be properly judged by playing the game.
So that said, what little I have seen so far looks good to my eyes, so I would encourage people to keep an open mind and allow the alpha testers to provide feedback before summarily dismissing the feature out of hand.
If done subtly, keywords could potentially allow for far greater reactivity without 'ruining' the flow of the dialogue we know and love. I think we could all agree that more reactivity is a positive thing. So let us judge it on its implementation, rather than as a mere idea.
"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
My main problem with just keywords is that one word is a bit vague. I had other RPG's where due to the keywords I accidentally chosen an answer that I didn't want and thus offended an NPC or took the violent way out of a quest instead of the peaceful answer.
I'm not saying you should put down all the text you are going to say for all choices, but 1 sentence or something out of the entire response should clarify it better then 1 word. Except for maybe options that return more often, like "leave".
I agree, any keywords need to be very clear. There is nothing worse (well there's plenty of things worse but you know what I mean ;-) when role-playing and selecting a dialogue choice in-game, that turns out not to have the meaning you intended to express. Head cannon (justifying game-play with your imagination) only goes so far. Keywords for things like 'leave' or straightforward investigative options such as 'treasure?' are all well and good, but a key danger of keywords is the potential lack of clarity.
"Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that" - Leunig
Yes yes, I can see we're going to lose this fight, but leave us the illusion plz that we have a choice in this matter. It's not so simple this time around because of the much larger reactivity in the world, really.
Sorry another vote for the classical dial system. I played mass effect where there is this keyword system and sometimes the discution goes in an unexpected way. In thos case you do not feel like you master your character.
I saw the video and I must confess I didn't realized this thing with the keywords/paraphrasing. If that's the case... well, I'll jump to the "classic" dialogue system wagon. I never really liked the paraphrasing system. I understand the multiple reasons developers could argue to defend its implementation, but no matter how well refined is, it always seems inferior to "full lines" presentation.
Not only feels weird not to be able to know wich words exactly your character is going to say, but, as many have said already, something inherent to Divinity games seems to be lost in the process.
Watch the newest update! There will be "full line" dialogues! Only for lore and pure information dialogues and things like that keywords have been used so far.
Well, yes, the hero-to-hero conversations are full line, they wouldn't be very effective as keywords.
I wouldn't complain too much if the keyword system stayed in the game, I understand that there's a lot of stuff, but I would miss the funny dialogues. "Don’t tell me you’re actually Dragon Slayers! They’re the elite. You’re… you."
I really liked the little bit where the heroes had a short non-decision conversation about the ruins, that's a great touch. I like things like that a lot.
I really liked the little bit where the heroes had a short non-decision conversation about the ruins, that's a great touch. I like things like that a lot.
I know right? Any of you that have played Dragon Age: Origins? Those conversations, randomly appearing whilst strolling about, between your party members were great and often hilarious. I like that a lot.
Look it stands to reason...You can't eat 'cos you don't have a stomach!
Thanks! If that's the case, I wouldn't mind so much. As long as full lines are more representative than keywords, I don't mind its appearance -even more if that means that "important" quests will be fleshed out with conversations and good dialogue lines!
Of course, the ideal scenario would be no keywords at all... but hey, at least is not an irritating keywordesque-dialogue-wheel *every* time your characters speak ^_^
Regarding dialog. My suggestion won't be beloved by all, but I've found if I have to read dialog in RPG's I prefer it typing itself out in an adjustable speed manner vs just displaying all the text at once. I don't know why exactly it works better for me, but it does and by a good margin.
For example, today you show dialog, bam, sometimes large paragraphs, bam. As your CEO states in one of the movies "Wall of text". It just all pops up on the screen. To much and my mind wants to shortcut it.
If the system types out the text as I read (at the speed I pick in a UI slider), I am grasping the story. Not knowing how long the dialog maybe and get put off by length. Also vs immediate text, where I've noticed I try to either speed read it or find bits and pieces of critical data. Give me nicely paced dialog displaying and it all just seems to mesh with my reading style much better.
It is sort of hard to explain, but I simply grasp the story better when the lines are written out at a reading pace instead of all of it in one instant.
Vindictus I feel does a great job in demonstrating how a story can work in a MMO and not just a wall of text, accept quest button, follow the arrow, return, accept reward button and done. In Vindictus I can follow the story and the characters, it's just a better way to handle it imo. If you would like a reference.
It should be an option, some will want the instant text. But if it were to happen, have a speed slider so each person can adjust the speed the text writes itself. Thanks for consideration.
On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin, it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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