Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Are custom characters flat and pointless compared to Origin ones? [Spoilers]

Then you absolutely (no pun intended) cannot play as a good Dark Urge without some luck, so this whole idea that DU is just Tav+ is nonsense.

Yeah, I have no desire to make my own custom Wizard when Gale offers unique dialogue/interactions/personal story.

The Dark Urge offers some challenge to being good...do you just want the easy way, the cheap win, or will you face some hardship, to be able to say you actually overcame something to be called good or a hero? And the payoff for the extra bits of hardship is insanely awesome. You can also eliminate all risk if you, as the player, choose to obey just one time, at a key moment, when you are asked to take out a non-party NPC...that will spare you the difficult dice rolls and the severe outcomes that could come from failing them. Plus you are awarded with a rather powerful ability for the one-time compliance as well. It's hardly the worst thing in the world to comply once...though it CAN be the worst thing in the world if you refuse and then don't make the wisdom saving throws. But still...it is a one off event. And given the potential severity of what happens if you don't make those saving throws it might also be worth having a one-time dabble into save scumming should things go wrong...though you might not have a choice as it will be difficult to survive the outcome of failing the saving throw so you may have to reload a few times regardless.

Personally I don't think it's that big of a deal to give in a few times. There are no extra rewards or incentives for total purity.

A one time high risk doesn't change the fact the Dark Urge is Tav+...because it literally is. You literally get an extra plot twist to the main story(two if you know the lore of the dead three and how they came to power, thought the second one isn't explicitly spelled out for you if the revelation flies over your head) and one of the most amazing scenes in the game by far. It's also no big deal to comply one time with the one specific request to take out a non-party NPC to eliminate all risk. The Dark Urge doesn't really force into into a whole lot...you can limit the damage to just one unimportant and inconsequential NPC lost while you sleep and the benefits for being the Dark Urge just in the extra lore and plot-twists is invaluable. Seriously, it absolutely is worth to always take Dark Urge over Tav every single time.

I think there are a couple factors about durge v tav that are worth keeping in mind when talking about which people should play. Firstly, it sounds like for all you can make them look how you want, Durge had their own backstory and you can't actually create your own character, which is a big thing for people playing this type of game. Secondly, it's not just a matter of durge struggling to be good, there is a level of darkness and grimness that not everyone will want to deal with with their own character. Its one thing to have a complicated past, it's another to constantly be assaulted by your character having some truly horrifying thoughts and actions that are sometimes out of your control. The level of darkness in this game is overall fine for me, but some of the stuff I've heard about the durge feels like it goes across a line that for me personally means I'll never actually play it despite having considered it before when I first learned about it.

You are basically saying that Jessica is evil and bad because Kilgore has mind powers to make her do bad stuff?

If you choose to play any character background including custom as murderhobo, that has NOTHING to do with being a dark urge, this is something ALL avatars can do and in that case the role you have created is insanely bad.

The stuff that ONLY exist due to having the dark urge background isn't evil, Paladin can be Dark Urges. Even failing to stop yourself from killing your love interest or any other DU only stuff, is perfectly okay for even a Lawful Good Paladin, as long as you are trying to resist. This is a fantasy world, where I can cast a spell on you and FORCE you to do anything as long as the avatar tries to fight the urges, he is fine and a good dark urge, even if he fails EVERY SINGLE dice roll to stop himself. Failing DOES NOT MAKE YOU EVIL!

I agree, for me, the Durge is an entirely different character than Tav.
I don't say, it isn't interesting playing a Durge, though I'm not there yet, I tried, but wasn't in the mood for serial killer fantasies. But it is a very different playthrough than a Tav.

It can be argued how “custom” is a custom character in an RPG if they do have a backstory. In my opinion that doesn’t stop it from being a custom character as long as the game allows you some room of movement when it comes to their personality and choices and the choices have consequences within a game, therefore creating a very different playthrough for the different type of characters. Do you want to play a good guy? An evil? An oathbreaking paladin, a naive and sheltered mage, a generally silly rouge making a joke out of everything to make others underestimate them? Your choice.

A good example to this are the old BG games, where regardless of your race your backstory was that you were an orphan from Candlekeep whose fosterfather got murdered in front of you. The plot itself was all about your predisposed backstory and it’s consequences. However, within the game you could play as literally anything, good, bad, silly, whatever you liked to roleplay. Other examples could be the Dragon Age games, or frankly, any RPG created by Bioware in it golden age, altough they were never strong on the whole “consequence” field where as Larian really did a fantastic job with that in BG3.

In my opinion a set background can help with creating a more dramatic and fun gameplay and a more involved plot if it is done well. If it is done badly, it makes the player feel that they are playing through an interactive book where none of what they do matter.

In the light of this we could say that even playing with any of the Origin characters should be much the same as playing with Custom Tav. We do, after all have all the choices with them as well, right? No. The Origin characters also come with a personality that you get to experience first hand if you play as Custom Tav or even just another Origin. They come with a pretty clear path, that Tav can stirr depending on their relationship with them. Like, how Astarion is selfish with a sadistic streak, and if you don’t have a good Tav discouraging him, he would always choose the bad options given chance. Playing them therefore is not roleplay in the sense that you don’t only have a background story but you cannot build up their personality and choices freely (even if technically the game allows you to) during gameplay. You are playing their story, not yours and therefore you have the interactive book playthrough with them.

This is, I think, why in their statistics Larian included Durge into the Mustom Character percentage, but not the Origin ones. Thes are pretty strongly set up, while Dirge, despite their fixed backstory, can be played in most any ways, as they suffer from amnesia and their past personality is lost, freeing up the player to create a new one for them.

Being able to customize the looks of a character is a small part of the Custom character feel in my opinion, but I know it is important for a lot of people. It makes the character more “yours” in a sense and, well you will be staring at them for about a 100+ hrs of gameplay, so it is really important that you should like them…

I think you make an excellent point, but delivery is the key here. With Durge, they are presented as an option, not the main way to play. Tav is presented as the default, so people will look at them differently. If only Durge existed then I wouldn't be commenting (nor would I be playing this game at all) but we have Tav to compare them with within the game, which you can assign a custom backstory to, despite the game never acknowledging it.like in kotor, it would feel different if you had the option of picking Revan, or some random entirely blank slate force user.

I think Tav is definitely too bland and remote from the main story. What I think could have worked is to make Tav Durge lite where you get similar options and prompts but it always remains your choice without saving throws on whether to act on them or not.

Otherwise main issue with Durge I have is that the switch between the Durge specific dialogue and 'standard' dialogue can feel extremely jarring. Like Dragonborn Durge still having the standard Dragonborn dialogue options when talking to Shadowheart during the camp scene for example. It just feels random at which point the game remembers that you have those disturbing urges and thoughts and when not.

No. Without going into spoilers the backstory of who the Dark Urge was and what he was doing before the game is filled in pretty well...there really isn't much room for you to make up stuff about. There will even be characters who you encounter that recognize the Dark Urge and know who he was even if he can't remember it...some will be happy to tell you, while others will not. make no mistake here, while you can customize the race, class, etc. of the Dark Urge he is an established character in this world. But on that same note, imagined backgrounds are utterly meaningless and worthless in RPGs. If the game doesn't acknowledge it then it doesn't exist...it is MUCH better to have a character with a very strong and very good established backstory but whose future you have the freedom to shape, and this is what the Dark Urge is.

Here, let me frame my issue.

- I want to play a custom character.
- I want to play a good character that is in complete control of their actions.
- A certain NPC that is core to the Dark Urge experience is one of my favorite NPCs in the game. If anything were to happen to them because of something that I simply couldn't control but it was because of MY character, I would simply stop playing. (no, i'm not exaggerating)

Now, with those three points, can you argue that Dark Urge is simply a Tav+ in every way?

Tavs is not bland. The origins are bland. Tav is deeper, more interesting, extremely epic, and beautiful. Tavs is inherently superior to all other choices.

I honestly don't understand your issues...only one death of a minor character you would never see again regardless is forced on you...that's it. Maybe a squirel death too but that can be avoided by not interacting with the squirrel. And you only have to do wisdom saving throws during one event. That's literally it...every other dark urge event can be avoided. And in return for those very minor inconveniences you get so much more. New revelations and plot twists related to the main story and one of the most epic scenes seen in any game. Just a far better and more complete version of the main BG3 story.

But you do see Alfira again. In both Act 2 and Act 3. And in Act 2 she gives you the most powerful robe a warlock can have in the entire game. And she doesn't exist in a vacuum, Lakrissa is part of the deal.

Well, I can't simplify it more than I already have, so if you don't understand my point from those three bullet points, then I think we're done. I don't know how else I can explain it.

There's more than enough gear to go around, there's heavy armor any class can wear without penalty and all kinds of other crazy stuff. And her death nets you an incredible rogue cape no other origin can get...and capes are far more scarce than robes and armors.

People like the character and feel bad about their character killing her. It's as simple as that I think. They're emotionally attached and like that she's around, and don't like when she's killed.

Like @Boblawblah and others I don't want to play a character that can't control urges. I wouldn't mind playing a slightly more edgy CHARNAME - someone who struggles to contain violent impulses - but I don't want the game to decide that I just can't control them.

And don't speak to certain people or just don't care about a certain NPC isn't satisfying. And Larian seems to have it out for people who like to play good. You receive no powers from avoiding and tadpoles and it sounds like you receive no powers from avoiding murdering people.

Which isn't like BG1 & 2 at all - in BG resisting the evil inside was rewarded.

Hopefully Larian will make a good DU playthrough possible.

Well that minor character is a) beloved and b) not so minor - you meet her again later, if she is alive. ANd jus tbecause you get a super uber cape, doesn't make it easier, if you are attached to that character.. And I personally liek her to be alive and happy with Lakrissa more than a cape.
And you are playing a serial killer - as I wrote in the other thread, you have to be in the mood for that. And I think people just have different viewpoints on what they want to play. I'm currently not in the mood to play Hannibal Lecter