Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Phase spider matriarch is dumb

It didn't feel impossibly to me, I didn't mod to remove those but I did choose to fight her head on, only lost my main Warlock PC and even then brought him back immediately. I don't really use food and scrolls are for Gale and my Warlock.

No. Not a mod. I didn't jump like a super hero, and I limited myself so that potions were Actions, I didn't use food, I didn't shove as a bonus, I tried to not use height to my advantage or backstab. I also tried to not use more than one surprise round for each character.

Yeah. Nope. Impossible. I was even full health and such. When she gets ticked in particular, it was like game over. She got like so many devastating attacks. I even used potions of speed and such. When an enemy at that stage in the game can reduce a level 4 character to dead in 1 turn from full health, that's too powerful. My Ranger was full health, she ported on him and killed him dead...knocked down...dead.

I had no major problems with this one fight (I had to load save once). Fighting does not require destroying the net in order to win.
The giant spider isn't terribly dangerous until she gets enrage. Until then, all the little spiders must be killed. When she gets enrage, the fight is a pretty big race against time.
If you don't kill her quickly enough, she will decimate your party. For this moment, save your strongest skills.
It's also a good idea to drink a potion of speed. With a bit of luck, she will die in one turn.
In my opinion it is a very nice fight, although not very difficult.
It is much more difficult to fight with a spectator

On my first playthrough when I didn't use any cheese (or I didn't know I was), it was a very hard and frustrating fight. Exactly like the minotaurs. Just a die and retry fight in which you can't really strategize except using "larian's creativity".

Not a fair boss fight for a normal game mode according to me if you don't use the webs/shove/thunderwave (dip, advantage and so on). A lot of players complained about it monthes ago when they were discovering the game.

Now it's too easy of course, like everything else when you know the win buttons.

Agreed ... it is very hard fight ...
But certainly not impossible.

The spitting poison, and then dying and leaving a poison surface that poisons you from walking through it is just plain dumb.

I always love these posts where people are like: "I did this fight without losing on my first try, with no prior knowledge of the fight, didn't us the webs for fall damage, or any cheese like stealth-killing her eggs or the two other phase spiders roaming around her area first. It was easy, you just need to get gud"

In general, people call it "mechanics" as in MMORPG you know... To defeat boss, you need to perform mechanics or possess the best weapons. There is nothing wrong with mechanics, if they annoy you, then just break all webs. I did this in my first playthrough because I thought she was only moving around with them. Then my whole party died.

In the future, you can kill her with better weapons and a higher level, without mechanics.


I spent 4-5 hours. Without webs. But I killed her. I think it will be easier at a higher level. And I repeat, she doesn't always jump on the web! Very often, it can teleport directly to you, ignoring web.

It definitely is a difficult fight without destroying the eggs or using the webs to drop her. I also don’t buy the idea that encounters should be tuned to a specific type of fighting style like Larian cheese. That’s not creativity. That’s railroading players to a particular play style.

I would hope that Larian would not use MMOs as an example to develop this game as MMOs use those types of mechanics as gatekeeping, not for the enjoyment of the player.

Her location suggests she is meant to be fought at around level 4 at most level 5. But I think most players will encounter her at level 4 which is a challenging fight. I suppose the real question is, what level is she tuned for?

And if it took you 4-5 hours to kill her without cheese, I’m sorry, there’s something wrong with the encounter. It should be challenging but not punishing.

I'm actually sure that "mechanics" are used not only in MMORPGs, I just say it as an example. In many singles, you need to do a certain thing to defeat the boss. Well, I don't know, for example, in Resident 3. I just don't want to say the names of specific games, suddenly you don't know them, so I said "mmorpg".

So using mechanics on bosses is normal for a VIDEO GAME.

This was my first fight with her at the time, so I think the problem was that I was level 2 and didn't know about the spider web mechanics. So 4-5 hours for a boss with such a set is not so bad. In new Pathfinder on high-difficulty, things are even worse, believe me. On some bosses, you need to pray for a random critical hit. Because if it's not there, then you just load again and again. For me, it is much worse when everything depends only on a random roll of dice.


That's why I think there's nothing wrong with mechanics. They help you, but you can make it harder if you want to.

Think about in the panel from hell, how the only way that swen could defeat the hag was by using some sort of cheese tactic. That's not the way at the game should be developed. Games should be made so that if you understand the rules enough you should be able to go into a boss fight and utilize tactics that you no and have at your disposal to be able to win the fight.

So, in the case of the spider fight, you should be able to fight tour way through the entire spider lair from start to finish without needing a long rest and still beat the spider queen and her minions. Of you have to long rest to beat thr spider queen and/or use some sort of special tactics like knocking her off webs, or sneaking around to kill all the eggs first, that is not the way D&D is supposed to be played.

But aside from not being how D&D is supposed to be played, it is not fun.

I think this fight is totally manageable, don’t get all the fuzz. And if it’s not no one makes you fight her, you can sneak past her or just turn away since there’s no quest leading you there. I like hard fights! My complain is that spider boss lady isn’t clever enough.

It's not about that. It's about how the only reason the fight IS manageable is because you have to discover and use certain gimmicks.

I'm just saying, the whole reason D&D is a fun game is that you don't have to use gimmicks to beat enemies. You use your characters skills and abilities and spells and items to vanquish foes, and you use them smartly and strategically.

Im not opposed to using things like surfaces and environment. I just shouldn't have to use those things to win.

He planned to do it because it's easier. But Larian gives you the opportunity to win in a different way, and many people have done it before. When you say "you can only win in THIS particular way!" you are lying to yourself and to others. Know rules? I hope you're not talking about DnD rules, because average gamer is almost guaranteed not to know these rules.

I also didn't use long rest in spider's location, cuz we have 2 quick rests. Ordinary spiders are killed quite simply.

Don't forget that you also have potions, scrolls, and a critical hit chance. Oh, trust me, Larian gives you many chance to play this fight differently, and they never say "you should use webs". And that's why I didn't use them first time! Because I didn't know about it, no one told me about it.

Of course, when I found out, I started using them, if possible. Yes, this fight has mechanics, but it is not so strict that you can only kill the spider in this one way. Believe me, some games have just such mechanics when u use it or die, no choice.
In general, in any game there is a more complex way and an easier one. Somewhere it is easier to play something as a mage, somewhere as a warrior, somewhere in guide on YouTube will be told you "this item will help you easily and simply pass this boss". It's kind of normal. But, again, you don't need to play a mage or warrior, you don't need to find this item, and you don't need to use web if you don't want.

We're discussing the web here, but did you know that a spider can also be pushed into a hole? This makes fight a LOT EASIER, but you can fail it like Swen did in that fight with the hag and get into a very bad situation.

So you already have three or even four options:

1. You can push spider into hole
2. You can try to kill her with a spider web
3. You can save all powerful potions and scrolls for this battle
4. You can kill spider with your own powers, yes it is possible

Oh, you can also just talk to a spider! If you have a druid, and don't kill her at all. Are you going to keep telling me that Larian doesn't give you any fighting options? I beg you...


What are the alternatives? removed web? But you can do it yourself... Or that spider would not use webs after first fall? I have already said OP is actually wrong, and spider does not always use web. It all depends on case and position of your party. She's not as stupid as you think.

Yes I agree. The spider queen is meant to be an incredibly hard fight, and you can do it not dropping her off webs. As you listed, there are a few strats you can choose to utilize. You are also correct in your previous post, ALL games have mechanics. Boss mechanics is not a form of "gatekeeping". They have been in games since the days of having to remember patterns and buttons to get past BattleToads.

I had one particular save, where I only had 1 short rest and I had to fight her. Yeah it took me like 5 times to beat hear, but it can be done. I never use barrels or anything like that. Just food and potions. I mean I generally do not even bother with scrolls. It did seem to be more challenging when playing a ranger, but that class needs a lot of work anyways.

I usually just snipe pull the regular spiders, which leaves only 1 spider and the Matriarch when all is said and done. Generally, I use a ranged to destroy the eggs, kill the remaining spider than just hack and slash with the Matriarch. It is basically a dps race, with a lot of potions since the Cleric heals also need some work. If you burn the web bridges before the battle starts (Gale works well for that), you can do it without aggroing the queen. So when she hatches eggs, they do not port quickly, leaving time to AOE them down. With the bridges burned, it seems to mess up the queens porting as well.

The point I was trying to make is that they beefed up the spider queen beyond reasonable D&D boss monster standards. A Phase Spider should have 13 AC and 32 hit points. As a bonus action it can magically shift from the Material Plan to the Ethereal Plane or vice versa. It should have a +4 to Hit you and do 1d10+2 damage each time they hit. If the target is hit, they must make a DC 11 Constitution Savings Throw or take 4d8 poison damage on a failed save. There is no spitting poison across the room or things like that.

So I would expect that the Matriarch would have maybe 64 HP and maybe 15 or 16 AC. Making her considerably tougher than the others. She might have 2 attacks, maybe, but even that I wouldn't really expect because she was a wizard who became a spider. So she should probably only have 1 attack. I agree with the OP that I could see her taking fall damage after one time of being on the spider web and falling, but after that she would avoid allowing you have that strategy on her again unless your characters are also on the web.

So the point I was making is that by making her a 132 HP monster, or whatever it was, with all sorts of deadly poison spitting abilities and multiple attacks that can wipe the floor with a level 4 character in 1 round, it completely throws the balance of the fight off. Instead of fighting a more reasonable set of monsters, now you are fighting a monster that is WAY too tough. Therefore, in order to beat her, you have to use things like shoot spider webs and knock her to the ground, stealth it up and shoot the eggs before they hatch, etc.

You say you can beat her without these things but then tells me that you had to reload 5 times. This is WITH the game allowing you to ise the homebrew rules of drinking potions as bonuses, eating food for HP restore during combat, backstab, height advantage etc.

This battle would be SO much more balanced and still very hard if they used normal stats and took out the cheeses. Then you wouldn't have situations where you are kicking spider butt one second only to have everyone dead the next.

Recently, I fought this battle and beat the crap out of the spiders. All my level 4 characters were doing well. Spider Queen dropped onto my Ranger. Dead in one round. Next round. Weakening her a bit. She lays Lae'zel flat, again from full health in 1 round. Next round, cleric dead. Last round drow fighter dead.

The point is that the game is so unbalanced that one minute you are kicking butt so hard, and on the turn if a dime it goes bad real fast.

@GM4Him

In boss instances, I don't mind it being difficult. The rest of the trash fights in that game, with the difficulty setting of EA is pretty basic. So when I reached the Matriarch, or when I fought the Beholder, or other bosses, I enjoy it being a beefier battle. It may not match 5e TT stats, but I think that is the difference between a AAA video game and a home game. Especially considering if they are going to maintain the long rest mechanic, I REALLY want the boss battles to be more challenging each chapter I progress. And before you bring up Solasta, why would I want to purchase 2 games with exact copies of their combat? I think that is the point your missing. Solasta may have better combat (I havent bought it yet), why would you want 2 different games to play the exact same way? That just really seems limiting to me, and I think not something that will draw more people into D&D overall. I think WOTC has a plan, they want both the games to offer different experiences. Variety is the spice of life.

At least that is what I am looking for...

It's like this. Solasta is nice and all, but BG3 is better. If BG3 had the mechanics of Solasta, BG3 would be SO much better.

But, here's my point. You don't know what you are missing until you try it. You and other non-D&D fans have not truly experienced D&D 5e because Larians rules have botched the whole system a lot. I wish they'd just have implemented them to start with. Then if people tried then and didn't like them THEN we could tweak them to other peoples lickings.

But I get a lot of "It is too limited and restricted" and "It doesn't work on a AAA video game."

But it does and it would and it would be SO awesome if they just did it.

And if a game system works well and it is fun and it balances games well, why WOULDN'T I want more games that had the same mechanics? Different stories and characters and dialogues, etc. Whole different worlds, but the gameplay on one is WAY better than the other because it has a tried and true game mechanics.

Im just saying, WOTC is not doing themselves any favors. If anything, all BG3 is doing is giving D&D a bad name because now we have all these fans of BG3 thinking the D&D rules suck and they are too limiting and d&d fans are just psycho nut jobs who freak out when rules aren't being done right.

For me, it's more like this. Bg3 is fun and I love it, but when you know that it could be so much better if they just implemented something correctly, it drives you crazy. I have been a DM for a long time. I know the game is awesome, and I know it could work well in a video game. It is so disappointing that they didnt do it right and now we have these crazy bosses that are ridiculous.

Again, if they just did the game rules and stats right, I guarantee the spider queen would still be a tough fight, a very tough fight. In fact, Im going to play out the fight with a party of 4. Im gonna reenact it using the right stats and rules. Than maybe I'll share it with everyone as a case in point.

Not sure why you're talking about "mechanics" (I understand it as sequences).

The same "mechanics" (fall damages because that's what you're talking about) are everywhere in the game.

The boss is balanced arround Larian's homebrew like any other combats and you just have one more solution to deal fall damages with webs.

You're just railroad to use Larian's mechanics more because it's a harder combat but every combat in BG3 has the same "sequences". This is absolutely not specific to the spiderqueen or destroyable webs.

You just struggle "more" here with a party of 4 if you're playing with your own tactics but you can also solo'd it easily if you use BG3's "right OP sequences". Like any other combats.