Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Too much non-combat when you reach Cyseal?

I actually wouldn't mind something A LITTLE more. I'm not in favor of random encounters for the sake of encounters but, for example, when going into random basements I actually anticipated something: rats, skeletons (there is after all an undead infestation going on), some pissed off villager who wants to pick a fight with an intruder. Something. Instead I got loot opportunities in an otherwise empty area. Not bad considering it meant $$$ but I will admit feeling slight disappointment. Again, I don't think some drawn out battle is necessary but I would welcome some interesting, APPROPRIATE encounters in the towns.

One thing that kicks this whole opinion off for me is that it's right after your first 'battle' (igonring the crabs). Then it's literally hours of exploring/tasks/investigations without another taste of combat or really any XP to speak of. I just end up a big thief stealing left right and center and checking all the containers I can (I guess I am OCD in that way) and eventually I feel let down because the Orc fight was engaging (but brief) and then there's no combat to be had without being basically evil or wandering off for a rather long time.

I think the *time* part is the key here. If I had been playing this game for a long time and had levelled up and geared up some and was the verteran of some nifty battles I might not feel as sedated by a stretch of civil life. Additionally - if this was farther intot the game I'd likely have other outstanding quests that might be more combat oriented etc. As it stands I have a quest log full of detective work and counseling.

It just feels to soon in to the game to lay completely off all action.

I really agree with this comment in particular. Prior to reaching the city we have a very simple/basic crab battle. Beyond that is the opportunity to fight the two guards at the bridge, but most characters adopting a reasonable stance will just opt for a friendly escort to Cyseal since they're heading there to see the wizard anyway. The second fight is the orc battle, which is the first really interesting action that happens.

And then that's it. The next few hours are dialogue and the equivalent of fetch quests. And while I don't mind that, it's too soon and too long. I just feel a fight somewhere in the middle of the time initially spent in Cyseal would break up the monotony nicely.


So, I suggested an unavoidable fight because there are optional fights in Cyseal, but you're only going to run into them if you fail to solve the ghost's tests (I don't), or getting caught stealing and picking fights with guards (I don't), or making the extreme choice of attacking the elder elf (I don't, and he also hits for 1 hit point of damage, so I can hardly call this a battle).

There is a pattern emerging here: optional combat for the incompetent and/or overly aggressive. For everyone else there isn't, and what I don't want is more optional battles added along the same theme. I say "mandatory" battles because a mandatory battle means good/lawful characters can't miss them. However, they can certainly be optional if (for a change) the option was presented in a way where taking the good/lawful route resulted in combat instead of (yet again) more non-combat. Just because I'm trying to play a good/lawful character doesn't mean I'm not interested in turn-based tactical combat.

Sure, I could leave Cyseal and chase down the quests given to me by Aureus, but (as mentioned before) for a long time in Cyseal our characters are only level 2 (and not even a full party). What we need are one or two level 2 or 3 encounters that don't require players to exit Cyseal's gates.

Well like I said, I could have interpreted what you said wrong. In another post you said you would want another orc battle (assuming you mean by the gate that has all the dead orcs) which could make sense as there are orcs off that way. But you also said a bar fight. Now if you are playing a GOOD/LAWFUL character as you claim, then the bar fight shouldn't happen as you would talk your way out of it as a good guy instead of choosing to fight. Another option for you could also be at night there might be shady characters around that you could stop. That holds more in line with a good/lawful event than fighting someone in a bar.

Yeah, that's the point, so how about you let them do the game and settle down with absolutely ridiculous [indirect] demands? There is a difference between feedback and "I don't like this so unless you change it [...]".

I have to agree that the pacing at the start is kind of strange. If you want the game to hook people you need to have excitement. I also don't mind the long drawn out areas of dialogue and questing without battle. I just think that it is too soon to the start of the game. Now that I have played many hours and know what is going to happen I don't mind so much but that first play through was getting a bit boring for me and a coop friend. We were both ready to fight something after spending HOURS in town doing nothing but talking.

Something to break up the pacing a little would be awesome. I can really see some people not playing the game for long. The story has not really "hooked" you by that point in the game and you don't get to really experience any of the cool combat mechanics by the time you reach town. I think either throwing a battle or two in before town or during town is necessary just to be sure people don't get bored.

We ALL want this game to be successful and to do that you need to sell the game to a wide audience not just a niche crowd. Many causal gamers will either play some at a friends house or watch the Lets Play type videos and be totally turned off by the slow pace to start the game and never give it a chance. The amazing combat and story will never be seen.

Obviously we don't want the battles just thrown in. But there are MANY opportunities for a battle or two to be snuck in.

Like others have stated there could be another small orc raid that breaches the gate and you are asked to help.

When you go in the basement "something" could happen.

When you go into Evelyn's house an assassin and/or group of hired thugs could attack you for getting too close. Obviously she has some followers.....

You could do some training fights at your homestead to learn the different effects that terrain/elemental things can have on a fight.

When you start snooping around the graveyard a zombie/ghost could attack you for disturbing the graves?

There could be a bar brawl with some drunken thugs.

Maybe some human pirates raid the docks?

The fish theif could decide him and his hungry buddies done like you and attack.

There are many many many chances for a fight that would not feel forced or ruin the RPG element of the game. As long as there is an explanation for the fight it could be worked in. Also most of those could be considered optional and/or could be avoided via dialogue options to intimidate or reason. Would add a lot more of the dialogue stuff that is being touted as new for the genre.

So many of these scenarios could show off the awesome battle system as well as be a great opportunity to introduce the dialogue system and show what it is about and how it could really affect gameplay and character advancement!!

Er.. two things:

1) I don't think anyone said anything remotely along the lines of "I don't like this so unless you change it [...]". You're placing words in our mouths and then attacking a statement we didn't actually say (or even imply).

2) If you're going to continue to participate in this discussion, I think you should probably lay off the profanity (from your earlier post where you dropped the F-bomb) in addition to reigning in your hostility. Neither is adding anything useful to this conversation, only noise.

This thread *is* feedback. Just because you don't like or agree with the feedback you're hearing doesn't mean it suddenly becomes classified as "ridiculous demands". To be perfectly honest, the only one acting preposterous thus far in this thread is you.

Please settle down.

Just because you don't like how some things implemented in the game doesn't mean it they are [implemented] bad.

Remember guys, don't feed the troll!

I've just read through this thread and I must say I agree quite a bit with Gyson. If you come to Cyseal as a Good/Lawful character you are really denied most chances at some excitement. While I think it is indeed fine with story segments I for one would welcome a fight, or at least a proper confrontation. As it stands all your problems can be solved simply by saying "No, I don't want to fight". How about having to convince an aggressor to back down? Or having to solve a serious dispute? None of these, still non-combat, scenarios are in there and I think something to give a feeling of danger or excitement would help set the player on the way.

You are supposed to care about the characters but if there is nothing to really care, or should I say worry, about then it is all just some other dude's problem; why should the *player* care? Now if the villain tries to mess with the player a little, that might serve as a good incentive for some players to really dig deep into the mystery. I for one am happy with the *main* story as is, I just find I get bored of introductions and grumpy legionaries and a brawl might help set the pacing right.

@ Kein: Please try to argue properly, no one has claimed that their dislike of one thing or another means that it is automatically bad. What has been said is simply that a change might be a good idea, to make things better. Not because they are bad, but because better is well better, and nowhere has anyone tried to just wildly claim that their opinion in this matter is universally what is *best* for the game, just what they would *like* and, this is important *WHY*.

No one in this thread is saying anything is implemented poorly. In fact, if anything can or should be taken from this thread it's that people LIKE the combat and they want more of it. People have only thrown out suggestions or wish lists; no demands as you state in another comment.

This forum is for feedback. And that is what it is being used for. If you disagree, that's fine. But really, please calm down and at least discuss why you disagree outside of "I like it how it is." How would this break the game mechanics? How would this detract from gameplay? How would this ruin the experience if the devs can do it properly?

Just because you don't like a suggestion, that doesn't mean it's bad.

If they do add in something like hungry muggers or something, I'd at least like the game to give you options like:

1. You've made the mistake of picking a fight with the wrong people. [Fight!]
2. [Intimidate] We've killed dozens of men stronger and better equipped than you. ( medium Situation bonus)
3. [Charm] Come on, let's talk this out. It'd be a shame if your face got all messed up. (Situation Penalty)
4. [Reason] We're Source Hunters. If you fight, you stand no chance. (small situation bonus)

The bonuses grow (and the penalty lessens) as the size of your party increases. If the check fails, a fight starts. There, a mugger fight that exists but can be avoided.

I'm not sure where it would go though, you'd have to do some rearranging of the town and probably much more. (Which might not be a bad thing as it would let them put a waypoint in by the market.)

I'm not sure that muggers would fit though, certainly not with the legion patrolling constantly. My objection to adding in something like this is that it could lead to requiringmore changes than you'd think.

Sigh. I guess no rats in the cellar this time around.

Well, at some point day and night cycles as well as schedules will be implemented. So, I think some muggers might appear during night time when all the righteous citizens and lazy guards are asleep...

That's an excellent point. Something happening at night could actually work very well, and give the player something to look forward to (since I imagine the shops will shut down and the investigation opportunities grind to a halt) and/or fear. Players that want to avoid combat could always opt to sleep through the night, perhaps.

I once added some bandits to the village (back when we had abandoned houses and empty cellars) and it completely felt wrong and out of place, illogical. I wouldn't just place combat for the sake of combat. It needs to make sense. But your feeling is noted.

You made it sound like I have anything against combat itself, which I never said and we both know it. The talk wasn't about combat and its mechanics and implementation, it was about adding combat into situation that someone find preferable because of their tastes.

If you want your combat where you want you can easily mod the game. It comes with editor, you know?


There are rats in the cellars, actually. This time, though, you don't fight them by default, you talk to them.

Also, a battle in the town might be very tricky, as you may have noticed that the battleground is *a bit* messy after a fight.
A cave, a crypt, a basement, anywhere isoleted will do.
But I understand that maybe know is not the time to ask for that kind of changes, cause the devs must have enough work to do...

I find myself agreeing with the original poster. I'm new here and I've only played a dozen hours or so, so I doubt I've seen it all, yet the first time I played through I actually got bored of the murder mystery because nothing was happening, so I just decided to walk out one of the gates and got slaughtered by my first encounter.

For me it's an issue of pacing. The game starts fairly fast, with a nice early fight against crabs, then the orc encounter, a burning ship and you're right in the middle of your murder quest, the reason you are there in the first place. Then the game pace slows to a crawl.

I'm not sure that adding combat in the town is a good idea. But I think the pacing of the plot needs to be improved. Maybe interrupt the plot for something important, or even just stop the plot (waiting for someone to return for example) and "encourage" players to explore the other quests and get out of town.

If you do what I did my first time and focus on carrying out your orders then after those first two encounters there's not another fight for literally hours.

Actually that is a reason *to* have a battle there, that does make it a lot more interesting, don't you think?

Perhaps he wants something between "no combat in town" and "kill/anger the civilians with all the damage surfaces lying around".