Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Tanks, and the problem with STR based gear.

I want one of my characters be more "tank-like", where the focus is more on a defensive build that focuses on survival and less on being an offensive powerhouse.

Ever since "Warrior" gear was changed to have a STR(ength) requirement, I'm having to allocate points that I wanted to put into CON(stitution) into STR instead. Because without STR I can't wear higher level armor.

This seems broken, and I'm not sure what the best solution is (as there are a few ways this can be addressed). I think the one I would prefer to see is that all gear that has a STR requirement instead be changed to "STR *or* CON" requirement instead to accommodate both types of fighter builds. So, a piece of armor that "Strength required: 8" would now instead say "Strength or Constitution required: 8", meaning a character with 8 CON and 6 STR could wear that armor, as could a character with 6 CON and 8 STR.

Or, are you purposely trying to create a situation where characters can't afford to heavily invest in CON for some balance issue you're concerned about?

It seems CON (along with SPD and PER) are being treated as "general" stats useful to any of the three character archetypes (warrior, rogue/survivor, wizard), whereas STR, DEX, and INT are the "primary/exclusive" stats for each of these, respectively. So it does make sense.

But if you're saying that warriors need more CON than the other two character types, remember that Way of the Warrior gives some pretty big Vitality boosts at higher levels (EDIT: 25% extra Vitality at ability level 5 - i.e. 5% x 5 levels in the ability, still called "WarriorLore" in the tooltip), so your standard warrior ends up with much higher HP than a standard survivor/wizard that way.

What's bothering me is that you can have a high STR Warrior (in fact, your Warrior needs to have a high strength or he won't be able to use higher level armor and weapons), but not a Warrior that focuses on CON instead. I feel like I should be able to opt for a more defensive build without sacrificing my ability to use equipment. There was a point during alpha where I could focus on CON for my warrior and still use higher level equipment (I think, at the time, it was based on abilities rather than attributes).

Hmm, I see what you're saying, but it looks like Larian is trying to go with a "neat/symmetrical" stat system - i.e. each of the three basic "classes" corresponds to one "primary stat" each (STR/DEX/INT - affecting attack accuracy/skill prereq/etc.), while all classes can benefit from the more general "secondary stats" (CON/SPD/PER). The potential problem with that is kind of what you mentioned - it's not as flexible for someone who wants an extremely defensive warrior who can still hit a damn. Personally, I didn't find my STR-based warrior to be too vulnerable, as I focused on Way of the Warrior and its related Vitality boost (from ability level 2 up), but I see your point.

I suppose it's a design question that might not be very flexible now as we've moved into beta, but I do see how "preferred" stats for each class/role can be pretty limiting, especially when the rest of the character build system is much more supportive of multi-classing between the skillsets.

I'm forgetting now what game system did this -- I'm thinking it might have been the Champions RPG system? -- but I've seen character creation based around the notion of a "Primary" attribute and "Secondary" attribute picked at time of character creation, where various game abilities and items that relied on an attribute would leverage whatever the value was of your chosen characteristics. Then some secondary stats, like HP or Chance-to-hit stayed tied to a specific attribute, to differentiate characters built with different PRI/SEC attributes. This provided some scaling of your power as your attributes increased, but really busted the build possibilities wide open. For example, Gyson's tank would definitely be a CON primary, but could have a secondary of any other attribute, allowing them to be brutal (STR), agile (DEX), clever (INT), or elusive (SPD), based on playstyle. Gaining access to higher-level gear still required you progress in your primary attribute, but it would be the attribute you WANTED to pump, making it align with your character concept.

Would have loved seeing a take on that here; would have really freshened up the warrior/archer/mage STR/DEX/INT trio we get locked into so often. Imagine having archer builds that are more-or-less equally viable based on diverse traits like massive draw weight (STR), accuracy (DEX), rapid-firing (SPD), close-quarters tactics (CON), range (PER), or knowing the enemy's weak points (INT.) Each of those characters should be able to get access to advanced bows/ranged weapons as they gain expertise, but the fun is in seeing/role-playing the way that each uses the equipment differently to succeed. You can kind of do that now, but all archers have a mandatory DEX-primary to unlock weapons, so your preferred stat will be increased to a lesser degree. Too bad.

It also tends to give players access to basically all equipment, i.e., your character is only an "archer" because he/she chooses to equip a bow, not because all melee weapons are locked behind a STR requirement. Maybe that doesn't appeal from a design purity standpoint, but it's sure fun from a player standpoint; it just requires different gear classes to have tradoffs. Larger weapons taking more action points means a SPD character will probably stick to shortbows and daggers, not because they have to, but because it reinforces the concept. Anyway, it's a pretty cool system, though I have no doubt it's a challenge to balance. But hey, this isn't an MMO, right? All characters don't have to be perfectly equal to protect fragile player feelings... I say, tear down those walls!

(Maybe for a sequel! :P)