Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta The ungodly charcater developement/leveling.

Here's a tip on how to make character development/leveling so much more godly then not.

See... you developers made a huge whopping mistake by packing everything in to one tiny shoe box.

Instead of having one general character skill system segregate it in the following way:

-Combat skill points (maybe you could just call them "Skill Points"). These ones would be responsible for all warrior/ranger/mage relate skills used for combat.

-Survival skill points (perhaps you could call these "Survival Points"). Which would be responsible for things like repair, lock picking, trap disarming, crafting and perhaps even telekinesis.

-Social skill points (or simply "Social Points"). Basically everything responsible for communicating with NPC's - charm, reason, charisma etc. etc.

So for every level you could get at least 1 of each (or a few every 2 or 3 levels) and that would make character development and planning a lot more easier.

For example I'd like to have a warrior who is good at repairs which are "essential" to the team's survival, but I can't pick both repair and way of the warrior or 2 handed or shield etc. etc. with the current system. With a more flexible system I could advance leadership along with repair while also improving any warrior related skill (or a mage or hunter/ranger skill).

Let's face it. There are plenty of skills and not enough skill points and xp to actually make good characters. Once you spend a few of those points on stuff like charisma or reason your dead weight combat wise. Might as well just run behind a tree or bush and that makes things much harder for the team.

Now I know you're just intentionally trolling... cause no-one can say that honestly.

So you made a bad quoting example?

So how exactly are 2 extra skill points per lvl and extra stats like HP (I believe around 80%) supposed to replace an extra team member which can inflict damage, heal, distract, use spells and so on? It's not like you get a 2x damage multiplier. And since your party is 1 member short you have less tactical options... or is all of that not a factor to you?

If it was 100% HP, 2 extra character points at start that I could add to intelligence or strength or something else and 2 skill points per level then I could live with that.

I don't see much that could justify the loss of an additional character.

@ Nolanoth:
You are entering the Land of Perfect Players, Studio and Game. Do not dare criticize any game design or feature, because they all make sense. It is you that do not understand The Great Scheme Behind, like other normal players here do. Begone, simple mind.

Lone wolf IS strong. I won't do all the math here, but let's take the HP bonus part :
- First case : you have a char without lone wolf who get focused. He dies and you lose a quarter of your fighting strength. If you want to get him back, you have to use a revive potion or a revive spell and you have the risk of seing him focused and killed again.

- Second case : you have a char with lone wolf who get focused. He barely survives and you don't lose any fighting strengh. You can heal him, order him to retreat or even attack and finish his ennemies.


The only reason I don't take lone wolf is because I like speaking with my npc ^^

Math is good, tactics are better... and it would have been even better if you did some tactics. If you are about to have a character take a good ol' dirt nap I'd suggest doing a few things:

- Fixing the tactical approach (main reason as to why things go wrong)

- Using potions (always a good idea)

- Invisibility spell (the best friend you have when you get swarmed)

To be honest I'd prefer the math next time. Since you don't get 2x damage multipliers like I mentioned before. And what about spells? You can get a lot of spell combinations with extra casters. Earth + fire, lighting + water not to mention "ELEMENTAL SUMMONS" and other temporary pets. Lone wolf chars are stronger - yes, but not as strong as two characters. Or actually nowhere near as strong.

So in general I guess I should be praying for some damn good modding tools. Because this is definitely something that might not be fixed at release and after.

But traits aren't my main concern, it's the flawed system. That is what bothers me the most and I bet it will be damn hard to mod.

The hitpoints isn't the big boost, the abilities (and accompanied skills) are.
Having 1 Way of the Fighter 5 is far more than twice as powerful as 2 fighters with Way of the Fighter 3 (since each has less skillpoints).

Combine that with Raistlin (which Raze has confirmed still leaves you around 120% HP) to get some major AP, and the picture is complete.

And I see the 2 trolls found each other. The start of a beatiful romance no doubt. Will I be invited for the well-written and super-interactive wedding? I better be able to get fish from the fishing nets or I will totally flame it off online!

Heavens this must take the prize as your worst trolling attempt so far (and there have been a number of them!).

Thank you for showing the False Believer that I am, that the Path to Greatness is not Marked.

Oh god, another one.

It's not WHAT you're saying which makes you sound and look like a serious a*hole with some issues with authority, or something.

It's HOW you say it.

Coming up on the forums telling that you're going to teach game developers how to actually do their jobs is some serious stupidity.

I'm not even sure you played the game since you label "Lone Wolf" as "in need of a major buff". No one can seriously say that. This is so overpowered that it's not even funny. Maybe it will come back later in the game, y'know, some parts we aren't given in the beta yet, but as for the entire duration of the Beta, it's a no-brainer that it beats, combat-wise, a setup of 3. Let's not even mention 2 lone wolves, which is essentially called "the facerolling team". Unless you intentionally do things to your builds to make the game harder, that is.

Again it's not a matter of defending the Larians© and saying everything they touch and do is Gold, because it isn't. There are some issues we've been discussing on these forums, from overpowered skills to useless abilities, to gamebreaking bugs and general issues. We do not always agree with each other, which is fine. That's what discussions are for.
But you just can't expect people to take you seriously when you come guns a'blazing, like you're the second coming or something. I'd strongly suggest taking a look at this video first and see if you can make something out of it.

If you aren't going to be firm enough and provoking enough in your opinions then nothing will happen. I realized that after beta testing ES Online. And what happened? That MMO is nothing but a pile of crap. Then these developer guys wonder why they are getting honest reviews like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4&list=UUsgv2QHkT2ljEixyulzOnUQ

Ye sure. This is not an MMO, but it is an RPG and if you aren't direct and firm these days no one "NO ONE" will take you seriously. The developers will just take a hot piss on what you say and push it aside.

You know I'm tired of the fanboys and fangals and IGN all the other people or silly reviewers out there saying "Oh hell this is so good!" when it's actually not... Take a step back and look at the bigger picture here and dammit just honest with yourself!

I want to pull this game up from the average zone. Lift up all this potential before it gets wasted and I don't give a damn if you call me a troll or worse!

Here's how Lone Wolf works:

80% vitality, 2 extra Start (what the hell is that), Recovery (no idea what that is either... AP - as in action points recovery?) and action points and 1 extra ability point per level up. Huh been calling them skill points. Oh well I guess Fallout is more a part of me then I thought.

The cost is - no companion.

So what does the companion have?

100% vitality of his own. That can sometimes be more then your own character total vitality. He/she has his/her own action point pool and that means extra spells and attacks. As far as I know the only weapons that cost 2 action points to attack are daggers. So you get "one" extra "dagger swing per round" if you take Lone Wolf.

Let's say your companion has 7 action points. That's quite a bit extra damage or healing! It could mean 2 1handed sword swings or an additional spell cast while a love wolf gets and extra knife stab.

The ability is completely underpowered. It's nowhere near balanced. Not to mention I have never gotten 2 Start... whatever that is. I think you should have gotten 2 stat points that you could add to your attributes.

The "only" way to balance Lone Wolf is to increase the HP bonus to 100%, add 2 stat points at start or when you pick this trait, 3 extra AP and AP recovery, plus 2 extra skill points on level up.

That would at least mostly make up for the loss of a team member. Especially that an extra helping hand gets 2 skill points on level up. And as a lone wolf you get 25% less.

If anyone wants to argue, then bring real arguments to the battlefield, because there's still a lot less tactical flexibility with 3 or 2 characters instead of 4.

If you cared to check and actually played the game you'd have noticed what Lone Wolf actually does to you.

Aside from the 80% extra health, extra skill point per level, it also gives +2 to ALL your AP stats. That means maximum, per turn gain, start of battle amount.

Play first, rant later. Also, don't ignore the lecture on attitude that was voluntarily given in this thread. It's quite true, it is.

So if people were honest they would all agree with your opinion, because the only way anyone could hold an opinion other than yours was if they were a fanboy/girl?



You can look at the description, ignore the parts you don't understand and claim it is not a viable option, but people who have actually played the beta and used that talent have generally reported that is is very effective or overpowered (and I don't recall any complaints that it was under powered).

Oh it's so nice of you to join us. How about you look at the last post I wrote in this thread - the one before this one.



Actually no. There are alternatives.



Yes. In the very beginning of the game, which quickly starts to change once you get attacked by a bunch of cheerful burning skeletons. And if the potions where actually more reasonably adjusted to a point where you just couldn't chug then down 1 action point at a time (which will probably happen soon) then I guess the amount of whining would be pretty intense. Let's face it. Everything up to burning skeleton folks is easy mode, unless you got a ton of fire resistance potions, which also can be overused. That's been the only thing sustaining Lone Wolf so far and this system. The fact that you can abuse some healing mechanics.

And here I was thinking after playing mediocre games for years and playing this being nicely surprised it was actually a good game.
But I guess not, it was just as mediocre as all the other games. Thanks for opening my eyes to your infinite wisdom.

And still not totally grasping how Lone Wolf is overpowered rather than useless.
Yes, surely your wisdom is infinite!

But thank god you're here now to help us rid the game of viles as being funny in sake of being super-serious... purge all that is good from your game. We need another Dragon Age 2... stat!

Yuck.
I hope we get better people posting here again once the patch hits, this wait seems to draw the worst people out... and I get cranky with Crumcrum alone, don't need another fouling the mood

Seriously, Way of the Warrior at rank 5 on level 6 IS overpowered. From there it's almost like you wouldn't need anything else for the rest of the game because you've got it all, right there, right now.

Overpowered Arrow Spray apart, going brainless warrior spending all Ability Points on WotW with LW is probably the single most unbalanced thing you can do. Even worse should you use TWO of those powerhouses. No healing, huh? Well who needs healing when nothing can stand in your way ?

No - REALLY - Lone Wolf is an overpowered talent. It's actually better to level one character quickly than two characters slowly.
What's more 80% of additional vitality with a warrior can be more than 100% vitality of a mage. Want Element effects/damage ? Get scrolls. Or forget about them : rush / battering ram / phoenix dive your way to victory.
Fights are quick, especially since there will be one ( or two ) less participant(s).

It doesn't take any arguments to prove this point. It only takes doing a full game with Lone Wolf on at least one guy, maybe two.

And don't bring an Angry Joe to the table if you want to sound serious, bring a TotalBiscuit.



Rain spell ... ? Any Water spell really ?

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww! Dragon Age 2 sucked! Don't even mention that game around me. It makes me wanna vomit.

I'd say Divinity: Original Sin. Is in the rage about 6 to 6'5 now. It's slightly above being average. So why not raise that up to 8? At least gameplay and balance wise and then go further to even a 10/10 game. Divinity has got what it takes.



I said it was underpowered.

If you'd want a fully functioning character replacement trait which would not gimp the party there's a simple way to do that.

Your character gets a 2x stat multiplier. 2x action points and regeneration, 100% more HP etc. etc. And since you are twice as strong you fill the role of two characters. Makes sense now? Of course that would be somewhat OP. So I suggested 100% vitality, 2 stat points at start and 3 instead of 2 action points and AP regeneration, plus 2 extra skills per level. That would be enough.



I went in to combat with some fire resist potions plus healing of course. I used the rain spell before every engagement. I had to weaken enemies and of course I broke the water barrels which where scattered. A 4 man party had a lot more flexibility in the fight. A bit of pulling and kiting here and there combined with outmaneuvering and elemental summons. The fire element was most effective since he could tank for a few turns. He didn't attack anyone, but since the mobs dealt fire damage they where constantly healing him. Frost killed a few before going down real quick as that totemic fetish kept resurrecting every fallen enemy and with the twin burning boss around it was really hard to get past that cannon fodder, but I eventually managed.

The encounter with two Lone Wolf's didn't go so well. I had to retreat a few times before I could even take a shot at the totem. Took me 2 elemental summons, but the fight was much harder then the one with a full party. Having more summons and pawns makes a hell of difference.

That could be me !

I would say the worst out of people, actually.

If you hate Dragon Age 2 why are you doing so much effort to replicate another game into it. It makes no sense.

And STILL you have not read all posts about how Lone Wolf is seriously overpowered already. But sure, you're a troll, you don't have to. Why am I even replying. I probably have nothing better to do. Sadly, that's exactly so.

Making a 6.5 to a 8 by making OP traits even more OP, and draining all humour from the game. Guess I rather want it a 6.5 then. Knowing 10 is Call of Duty... ugh, that sounds about a good place not to suck

We all want the game to be better... but I guess we all (bar you) can agree the best way to do that is build upon it's strengths and erase it's weaknesses rather than build upon it's weaknesses and demolish it's strenghts (like humour and writing).

Oh stop trolling! I made a suggestion and you completely failed to red over 90% of the post! So I'm taking the part about "Lone Wolf" out of it. There!