Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Lockpicking Issues and suggestions

It's quite true that right now, the D:OS Beta doesn't really have so many options or alternate routes.

The idea of Lockpicking as a shortcut to solutions is a reasonable one, and there are at least a few some places where it could be used.


The Withered Gardens has a path on the east side leading down towards the teleporter, but a wall blocks it. If instead it's a locked gate which you can pick, it lets you bypass a bunch of traps which are at the other entrance. A key could be placed inside the gardens, requiring you to enter either through the traps or gate.

The Church has a collapsed and blocked stairway at its entrance. The only way to reach the entrance is to go through the graveyard and through a bunch of encounters. Make the stairs connect and put a locked gate, and look - you can pick it and bypass some encounters. A gate key could be placed at the church entrance.

In the Black Cove, the key to the Black Cove Harbour Gate is on some books right beside the gate. Whoopie. Put the key in either of the two rooms full of traps nearby, and lockpicking will let you bypass it to open the gate.

In the Black Cult hideout, there's a room full of anemic cultists and there's a door leading further into the level. Lock that gate, and put the key elsewhere in the room, and you now have the option of fighting the cultists or sneaking past and lockpicking the door. (A poor example because you can just sneak to the currently-unlocked door.)

Now that's more like it!

Re: Esmerelda's door and key, the issue isn't so much that the key is there, but that she and the guard don't seem to mind one bit that you go strolling up the stairs into her private quarters. If getting up those stairs without provoking trouble required sneaking past/distracting/bribing/etc the guard, having the option of picking the lock instead would be more useful, and smashing through the door probably ought to draw the NPCs' attention as well, making it less viable for getting in unless you're really creative about it. (On the other hand, whacking the back door a time or two and taking off might be one way to distract the guard so that another character can slip upstairs...)

Well, I was talking about how some RPGs do it. But indeed, that is probably not logical in Larian fantasy "Alice in Wonderland" world.


So if you have the skill level to hit an opponent, you should succeed then. Go play chess. No random results. Just pure RPG fun. Sigh.


Well, explain me how in a 1-5 range level, something can bring a comparatively "small" bonus. Of course, I get it, in larian fantasy world, +1 on a 1-5 range is a "small bonus", +2 a very small bonus, +3 a huge bonus, +4 a tiny bonus, and +5 a basic bonus. No need for stupid so called logic. My bad. Yes, there is no logic in saying that there is more choice in a 1-1000 range than in a 1-5 range. If the math gets tough, just blast your way through with a fireball.


Well, you are right again, Alice. Nvw.

That is what I love about this forum, is that we can express ourselves.


LockPicking could also be a bonus skill for people who would like to play in a more thievering way. Bonus treasure chests or Backrooms. Maybe the keys were lost some times ago. Old chest in an attic. Buried treasure chest. Trapped chests that would explode and utterly destroy themselves if you move/hit them, so would require lockpicking. No wait, forget this last sentence, it is nonsensical bullshit.

I am all for the less stuff in it if you break it option. no potions in a broken chest... Wait no, it is not "logical". I mean MORE potions in a broken chest, of course.

As for the loot tables, I read somewhere on the forum that there might be a lot of it already, and that if got a little out of hand, and adding more was not that easy. I probably misunderstood.

Or if lockpicking is an hassle, and you can't find any imaginative way to use it, just remove it.

If it isnt clear already, i really dont care for your continual crying about Larian this and Larian that and their world - as seen by you.

Either stick to the subject and reply to arguments and matters at hand or go talk and complain about "Larian" to yourself somewhere.


We were talking about lockpicking - there should be no RNG to it, or it could be very, very small - and lockpicks dont have any way to defend - unless otherwise stated so as a particular of the setting.

If there is some small RNG then lockpick quality could handle and counter that. Though its best if there isnt any such fake RnG to it at all.


It can - if the devs make it have 0.1 bonus. Or 0.000001


Indeed.


You dont say?

Claiming the obvious - just after you falsely invented some opposite of that is a logical fallacy. If you wanna talk logic.


Indeed? How does that fireball work on logical constructs so far for you?


Correct.


Hopefully this will be the end of it. As well as you following me around from thread to thread and trying to "get back at me".

@ Neutronium; I know, I even said so in the start. I was merely stating "breaking" stuff on bashing is more logical and realistic (even if other threads on this forum starting to make me hate those terms) than magically getting extra loot upon opening a chest, even if the actual implementation of the system mechanically is "lockpick; bonus item".
According to your response, you say luck is mandatory at the moment, as it adds bonus items to drops. Is it however? For lockpick this would be even worse, since there are less locked chests than any other lootboxes luck can work for.
In the end, luck would still be superior in the lootfactor, but it gives lockpicking a nice boost over bashing, and is hardly criticial, just as luck isn't (but it's really nice, so I definitely boost luck ;))

I wouldn't exactly be in favour of Dr. Koin's lootbox suggestion. Identifying is already a step from unused to usable loot, I don't see a reason to add another. Especially seeing how it's mentioned that would make lockpicking useful as another moneydrain if no points are invested in, but the method given states that you get the items inside free anyway, just not the money that's there. That's not really a drain on your money, is it now, like repair/identify? That's just not getting some bonus money. And we all now money is aplenty enough atm without adding more to the cycle.

I do like most of Stabbey's "use lockpick here to avoid some fights" scenarios. Thruth is however, no one will still do that, since unlike Pillars of Eternity, fights are big XP here. And thus you're just cheating yourself out of experience in return for lockpick points. Avoiding traps is more like it...

Hm yes you're quite right, money isn't really a scarce ressource.
Maybe just having to pay to get to the content, with no gold inside. Or the "gambling" may be paying a sum and hoping to get it back with the content.
The main idea was essentially to find an alternate way of giving Lockpicking more credits without having to re-do anything in the world, as revisiting the map to add or modify locks really sounds like a big, edgy thing to do.

I completely agree the best of lockpicking comes when you can use it to bypass things, when it IS a real alternative. I mentioned FallOut 1 and the infamous locked door you could lockpick with the proper skill and bypass a big part of the game, this is good and satisfying design and it even kicks in in later playthroughs when you now know you could have done that right from the beginning.
It's just that I don't really have high hopes about that, as we are in Beta and not Alpha anymore and I don't really know if they would undertake such a task... But I like it more.

It's indeed a bit tricky when fights can bring such good XP and you don't want to avoid them though... And giving a succesfull lockpick an amount of xp equal to what you'd have got for the fights isn't a solution as people are just going to lockpick and then proceed on the normal path to get both rewards. Aaah, damn you, metagaming !

And and what you are suggesting is that 1-5 range with 0.1 increments is exactly the same as a 10-50 range increment. So we do agree that big numbers make for more choices, and possibly fine tuning. However, I haven't seen any fractionnal bonus to abilities. Fact. This might change, and then offer more bonus and freedom to the devs.


NVM


It is not because people are utterly ignoring me (which is understandable and fine) that I am not making proposals. And what about applying you own rules to yourself ?

I wasnt really suggesting that for OS specifically, since i dont know the details of its lockpicking mechanics.
It was more of a general kind of idea, one i would certainly use in my game - if i ever make it.


- i always apply my rules to myself first. Thats why no one else gets any quarter.
If i must suffer this a**hole then so shall everyone. Kind of a thing.

Hopefully, the much desired and looooong awaited editor will allow us to create some mods and rules that will suit our playstyles, the more the better, and offer us the joy of sharing the hard work. If you ever make a game, I wish you the best of luck and commitment (especially with people like me around XD).

As for rules, I try to stick to mine, but it is not always easy or successfull. Anyways.

Some more consideration about numbers. Lets say you are in a 1-5 system like DoS. so, +1 would be good, +2 better, and +3 even better (logic and "make sense" bullshits aside, of course...).
Lets say you have a +2 ring of lockpicking, and a +2 glove of lockpicking, and +2 "great lockpicks".
That is a +6, beyond the limit of 5.
I AM NOT (for once) CRITICIZING, but thinking. So in this case, there would be no need to invest into lockpicking, because magic and special objects would make the trick.
This might be a very fine alternative to people like me complaining that there are not enough char development points.
Just some thoughts.

(nobody is perfect at judging himself, or living according to his own rules. The important thing is to really, actually try. And to learn and correct oneself, step by step - because so very few do even that much)

I can just repeat that i wouldnt use such a mechanic at all. I said small bonus and i meant it literally.
Not something that would override the skill. Just add a small bonus to it.
If that.
Since such a skill is purely well, skill and knowledge related or dependent.

Although, i presume you would need specific sets of different lockpicks - specifically made for specific kinds of locks of the more complicated - non standard kind.
In this case, adhering to reality would result in better gameplay, but it should be designed like this from the ground up.

I doubt this can be applied to OS at this point.

Oh yes, talk about frustration :-( (well, I do :-( ) There are people that are very good at getting the best of what they have, and some that always want more. I am sadly of that second sort. Sometimes it really feels like a bane, because you can never be satisfied :-(