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Originally Posted by Hiver
Nah, youre just repeating yourself. Lying, misunderstanding and trying to assert some sort of weak ad hominems without any proof or facts to support it.

Thats because you have nothing else to say and nothing else to think.


Nobody is insulting, unless you mean to say that facts are insulting to you. Which is actually true.
Because you are obviously someone who is willing to consider replies that comform with your personal views and desires - only.

The rest is "insults". And "trolling". that you "didnt read".

Because you say so.


You just go down a list of fallacies and empty vacuous assertions which ends in your proclamations of victim-hood - which will supposedly makes you right.

Which is the exactly same logic loop that those like you always go through without a fault.
Youre just one of the clones.

Yep, nothing insulting or trolling there. rolleyes

It's also interesting how you keep insisting I'm only responding to "..replies that comform with your personal views and desires.." (it's conform, by the way), when I've been responding to plenty of arguments in this thread. The ones I'm trying not to bother with are yours, though, because you're trolling. And trolls are generally not worth taking seriously and/or responding to.

You see, it would be easy to take your route and individually quote and respond to every sentence someone makes, creating a dozen multi-quote response that basically says "You're wrong/lying/an idiot" with each remark. But don't fool yourself into thinking you're saying anything useful with that. You're welcome to your opinions (as odd as they may be), but in the end that's all they are.

Now, I don't consider you a troll because your opinion differs from mine (although that seems to be your definition of one). I consider you a troll because you can't seem to formulate a reasonable response and instead just resort to personal attacks. If you want to put those attacks aside and get back to actually discussing the topic for a change, then let's do that. Otherwise, you're just wasting my time.

I'm sure your next response to me will be further trolling, but you could always prove me wrong. Just don't expect me to respond to you further if that's the route you're going to continue with. And understand that a further lack of response (to you) is not in any way a sign that I agree with the nonsense you've been leaving here. It's more a sign that I feel your argument has failed to make any impression, beyond the fact that you're intent on picking a fight.

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Originally Posted by Arjiki
Originally Posted by LordCrash
@Clemens

To me a good turn-based game is NOT based on skill or learning the mechanics. "Skill" in that respect would only mean that you know how to beat the numbers. It's not about being fast or having good reflexes like in first person shooters. There is no skill in games like D:OS. To be able to react with what you have to a challenge ahead of you isn't based on skill but on basic intelligence.

As I said in my post before, I think that the game should offer a lot more randomness. A game like D:OS which is based mostly on number games and simple causal combat mechanism (actio->reacio) is somehow "dead" to me. You beat every enemy by the same patterns or different set of patterns based on their resistencies and stuff.

I think a good game with some "challenge" here should mean that you have to die in hard fights. Maybe two times, maybe ten times, maybe you make it in the first attempt. Since many stuff is based on random principle you can never know how it plays out in the end. That's the basic principle of many board games as well, at least the entertaining ones. They combine tactics and strategy with luck. A game which is only based on one of them is either too chaotic or too boring and expectable... wink

As you mentioned in a previous reply, the argument is largely philosophical, but I could not disagree more with this.

Luck based mechanics that determine whether or not you win or lose fights are the most frustrating and unrewarding things you could put into any type of game.

I would much rather have games challenge me to think through my actions before doing them than challenge me to beat my head against a wall multiple times until I am lucky enough for it to give way.


And I could not agree more with this. Of course it's good to have some variation in the results of an action so that it doesn't boil down simply into a calculation and in your head you're going "He has 4 health left and my attack will deal 5 damage so I'll win".

However if you make things too variable, you're essentially just making them unreliable. And when you come across that situation where by all rights you should have succeeded but you die because of nothing but pure bad luck you don't feel like it was a deserved defeat, you just feel cheated. And that's not what a game should make a player feel.

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DOS is not pure luck. Its not like roll a d6, you win if you do 1-3. There are stats, skills, potions, environments, planning, etc that can be used to reduce "luck" as much as possible.

If luck is both ways, I think it can be ok. That is, if you can critical a monster as much that it can crit you, It shouldn't be feeling like cheated, but like fair trade, that either goes right or wrong.
Then again, how the gameply is implemented can be very important. If a failure means instant death, it might be a little harsh indeed. If it means some heavy wounds that can take time or special stuff to be removed, you still have a critical failure, (or success, whatever), but not life breaking.

Really, a question of balance and gameplay.


Un chemin de 1000 lieues commence par un premier pas.

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@Gyson

You are constantly calling me a troll - without providing any evidence of that... and you accuse me of personal attacks? And you keep repeating that so you can create some sort of excuse of why you "wont reply" or "read"?

You are some kind of a victim? Poor you.


:lol:






Last edited by Hiver; 14/05/14 04:04 PM.
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