Thats not really true SGnri, - and the rest of you.
And you should cut out accusations and empty assertions of making the game horrible now or taking away player choices. You are practically insulting at several places in that post of yours, because you are not getting exactly what you want.
Which is pathetic.
You actually did not supply any actual evidence for any of those assertions. Except your own statements that it is so.
Just because.
The old system does not need to come back. If you want specializations into pure classes to provide some advantages over the hybrids and mixed builds then that can be achieved by adjusting this new system, not by throwing it away.
I never said throw the new system away, my point was that everything that can be achieved in the new system, could be achieved in the old system, SO why create a more constricting/restrciting system that gets the same job done? his point was the new system gives more freedom of choice, which i proved it does not. the end result will be the same the old system allowed you to take which ever route u wished, while the new tells you when and how to do it.
Its true when i made my warrior i wanted to learn all the warrior skills but you didnt force me to i choose to do it that way,
- nobody is forcing you now either.
whats being forced now is where to put your stat points, and ability points. previous system put no restrictions on it and offered true freedom.
new system locks you out of talents/skills and forces you to put stat points and ability points where they see fit not the player.
BUT this lastest patch has really made the game horrible,
- no it didnt.
debatable, as we are doing now.
I would have tossed this out as another bad rpg attempt.
- thats your own personal fault. Not surprising seeing how you think that laughable excuse for an RPG from EA-ware is a good game. (although it was the last mediocre RPG they managed to produce - after which most of those devs went away, as practically all those that created BG games went away long ago)
regardless of what MY standards are for a "good" RPG, the points and logic I put in my post still stand valid.
The new system has done nothing to change this. I can start a new game right now create a fighter put 7 in intellegence 8 in strength. 1 point in pyromancy, 1 point in witchcarft, 1 point in man at arms, 1 point air, 1 point in earth. after about 1 hour of play i will have enough gold to go and buy 3 books from each of the classes i know. thats 15 skills in less than 1 hour.
- False. (it is true you can do that but the conclusion you draw from it is false)
1. You did not understand what Swen was saying. He was referring to the fact that the players had too many skills too fast - of a single class.
Not all of them or several of them.
Which caused people to think about the game as if it was a class based game - needlessly.
Because it isnt and it was never intended to be.
2. those skills you can buy are all low level skills. You are not able to buy and use any of the higher levels ones - because of specific requirements.
SO - someone who did not invest enough points into a "fighter" specific skills and stats WILL NOT BE ABLE to make as good as a fighter and as fast as you, with your specialized fighter will be able.
Comprende?
Your specialized fighter or a warrior - will be better at fighting in that specific way, then a hybrid build.
BUT IT WONT BE better then them overall. Just different. Specialized. A better fighter. NOT A BETTER wizard, rogue or ranger, not better IN EVERY WAY.
BECAUSE - there is no reason in this universe to let you be better then anyone else - just because you would like it.
Ill repeat one more time: If you specialize now into a fighter - your fighting abilities will be better then fighting abilities of a hybrid build. But you will not have a better build in general.
Comprende?
(dont remember exact stats this is a mock, the point will still be made)
Lv 3 pure fighter 11str = 5 fighter skills
Lv3 hybrid 9str 7int = 3 fire 3 water 3 wind 3 witchcraft 3 fighter
lv8 pure fighter 14str = 8 fighter skills(there arnt 8 fighter skills at lv8 there are only 5)
lv8 hybrid 10str 8int 7dex= 3 fire 3 water 3 wind 3 witchcraft 3 ranger 3 rogue 3 fighter
^
this will continue into the higher lvs
The fact the pure build has more strength means nothing when the hybrid has access to double or triple the amount of more diverse skills.
the pure build would have 2 extra skills divine light, and cure wounds
hybrid would have minor heal, and fire ball + the other 10 skills it has.
how is the pure build better?
The new system tells you "NO you cant put all your points as a wizard into strength or we are going to take all your starting spells away, here put 3 of your 5"free to put them where you want"starting stat poitns into intellegence and we will give you your starting spells back"
You are saying that you would want a fighter with high strength to have as many spells and use them as well as a wizard?
- is that what youre saying?
read my above post. the new system allows for a fighter with 4 less str to double or triple the number of spells of a pure wizard build. so under the new system I lose 3% accuracy but instead gain access to 10 spells that have a 100% hit chance and hit from 15m away?? theres nothing to think as a 9str 7int fighter my spells may hit for 5% less damage but yes i have way more than a pure wizard.
which makes sense someone who spent 2 years training to be a warrior becomes a master warrior faster than someone who spend 7 years hopping from trying to be a mage/warrior/ranger master.
That doesnt make any sense at all. If you said that someone who spends 2 years training as a fighter - gets to be a better fighter then someone who spent 2 years training a mix of skills - then you would be correct.
well yea thats what I meant but
if you trained 2 years straight to become a certain thing 2 years later you are that thing.
trying to be 5 different things would spilt your time in 1/5 for each individual thing so you inturn after 2 years you would only have accomplished 1/5 of what the pure build was doing in his certain class. im trying to show that being able to become a powerful pure build quickly in the game makes real life sense.
it only made sense that players pushed way of the warrior up as fast as possible, they wanted to be a warrior. They didnt want to be a half warrior half mage BUT they could if they want to. new system doesn't give both options. now to try and rush to be a pure anything will only hinder your progress in that certain thing.
your game was great because of ALLL the freedom we had to put points where you wanted and not be punished or locked out of certain talents and abilities because we CHOOSE to put all our stat points into 1 thing.
- im afraid that you misunderstand this on a fundamental level.
This was never meant to be a game where you can just choose any skills and spells as you like and therefore make completely insane builds like fighters without a point in intelligence that can use all spells as you see fit or wizards without a point invested into strength - that can use any weapon and fight as well as any fighter.
Obviously, you have been distorted into such non-logic and complete nonsense by EAware, Zenithesda and other such mass market abominations.
the original post was about how the new system gives more customization and takes away the class based system. in turn giving more freedom.
The points I made where that
1. no it doesn't give more customization/freedom, both systems provide the same amount of customization once you get to end game except one of them on top of giving the same customization cuts out your choice to build freely from the start and to advance quickly become a pure build and build up to that same endgame customization as you feel with no restrictions.(so why hinder when the result is the same? is my point, i never thought/said the game was designed to be a certain way, they had a version that actually had customization from start to finish and put in a version that actually has less customization from the start, so how can they say its more customizable?)
2. it does not shy away from class based systems. it in-fact promotes it by telling each person that decides to be a warrior "put 3 points in str to get your starting skills,oh then 1 in constitution so you can body build, then 1 in body build so u can man-at-arms, then take body build to lv2,wait then put more str into your build so you can use more skills, but also go add more speed to get more talents" This type of system promotes everyone ending up with the exact stats, because if u do other wise you wont get any skills or talents.
so the system that was supposed to offer "more custimaztion" does in fact the opposite.
