80% of the valid problems being raised with the new system (which I still think is a huge step in the right direction overall) might be solved by something like this:
Investing ability points in skills should yield more benefits than just increasing the number of skills available (at this point this benefit seems irrelevant - having more than 3 spells per school is not necessary). A higher skill level should unlock more powerful skills, improve skills and/or reduce AP costs. So, if the new system is retained, skills should also be given a skill level pre-requisite in addition to the character level and/or attribute pre-requisites.
I totally agree with this.
I also agree with the below feedback on ability naming/grouping:
I like the reorganization of the abilities into their new categories (although I'm not sure why Barter is under the "Craftsmanship" instead of "Personality").
I don't like that the names of the skills are different than the names of the abilities. Air, Earth, Water, Fire, Witchcraft, ... Ranger, etc. makes sense. Different name doesn't make it any cooler and just add more complexity.
Third-ed.
I never said throw the new system away,
Yes you did. You want them to revert back to the old one which means discarding the new one completely.
my point was that everything that can be achieved in the new system, could be achieved in the old system,
No it cannot. Despite someone simply asserting the opposite - based on misunderstanding.
[quote]SO why create a more constricting/restricting system
It s not constricting or restricting so you should stop calling it like that. Its pointless declaratory statement unsupported by anything except your wrong understanding of how the new one works.
his point was the new system gives more freedom of choice, which i proved it does not.
And thats exactly what it does.
whats being forced now is where to put your stat points, and ability points.
Appropriately so. Because if you want to train to be a very good fighter - you will spend all your time of training improving those specific attributes and skills.
previous system put no restrictions on it and offered true freedom.
Not true.
debatable, as we are doing now.
we are debating it but that does not mean you are in the right.
As when facts are concerned - you are not.
- the points and logic I put in my post still stand valid.
It doesnt. Thats the main point im making.
(dont remember exact stats this is a mock, the point will still be made)
- Lv 3 pure fighter 11str = 5 fighter skills
- Lv3 hybrid 9str 7int = 3 fire 3 water 3 wind 3 witchcraft 3 fighter
- lv8 pure fighter 14str = 8 fighter skills(there arnt 8 fighter skills at lv8 there are only 5)
lv8 hybrid 10str 8int 7dex= 3 fire 3 water 3 wind 3 witchcraft 3 ranger 3 rogue 3 fighter
^
this will continue into the higher lvs
The fact the pure build has more strength means nothing when the hybrid has access to double or triple the amount of more diverse skills.
the pure build would have 2 extra skills divine light, and cure wounds
hybrid would have minor heal, and fire ball + the other 10 skills it has.
how is the pure build better?
You see, that was my point and you didnt understand what im saying to you.
The Pure Fighter build is a better FIGHTER - not better overall. There is no reason why it should be better completely.
Thats the problem of your logic on this issue.
In your own example you can see that the pure fighter will have access to high level fighter skills that hybrid builds will not have - and he will have much bigger physical attributes which will enhance several mechanics and skills - which the hybrid classes wont have.
Therefore your pure fighter will be a much better FIGHTER then the hybrid build.
the new system allows for a fighter with 4 less str to double or triple the number of spells of a pure wizard build. so under the new system I lose 3% accuracy but instead gain access to 10 spells that have a 100% hit chance and hit from 15m away??
LOW LEVEL SPELLS!!!!
They are all low level spells, regardless from which school of magic they are.
well yea thats what I meant but
if you trained 2 years straight to become a certain thing 2 years later you are that thing.
trying to be 5 different things would spilt your time in 1/5 for each individual thing so you inturn after 2 years you would only have accomplished 1/5 of what the pure build was doing in his certain class. im trying to show that being able to become a powerful pure build quickly in the game makes real life sense.
YES?
it only made sense that players pushed way of the warrior up as fast as possible, they wanted to be a warrior. They didnt want to be a half warrior half mage BUT they could if they want to.
And you can right now.
Just invest everything into being a pure fighter damnit!
new system doesn't give both options.
OF COURSE IT DOES!
now to try and rush to be a pure anything will only hinder your progress in that certain thing.
No it bloody wont!
You only think so because you incorrectly understand hybrid build capability to have several different types of magic as something that is stronger then the pure fighter. IT ISNT!
Its just more diverse. But all those spells are low level spells!
so the system that was supposed to offer "more custimaztion" does in fact the opposite.
No, it does not.
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(
I didnt quote everything written above this sentence by you, and other parts of your post not because im trying to falsely represent what youre saying but because all those conclusions you made are based on the wrong basis - therefore they are wrong.
And it isnt necessary to address any of them specifically, since they just repeat what you already stated and i addressed.)
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The new system is great. It enables everyone to make whatever builds they want without any specific false restrictions and that includes pure specialized builds - which will perform much better - in their own specific field - then the hybrids builds - but wont be so diverse. DUH!
And by the way, i know this very well - because im playing with Madora who is a pure fighter and i keep her so intentionally, while my Source hunters are both hybrids of different kinds.
And Madora is a much better fighter then both of them. She is the one that is actually finishing the fights. Dealing most damage. Especially in the tougher ones.
Its just that they make up for the difference with other skills. While they die much more then she does.
Because they cannot even wear the armors she can, dont have that much of HP, or cannot deal that much damage with weapons they can use, etc, etc.
