Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Beta Bug reports for BETA v1.0.59

Problem solved. I feel stupid now - but happy.

The quickest ways to do so are still

No, I think you probably missunderstood how the skill "Leadership" worked.
Just like some other DnD games, the Leadership aura doesn't effect its provider.

For example, if there are two characters in your team, one is called A and another is called B. Here are some actual facts:
Situation 1:
A: 0 point, B: 1 point
Aura: A gets +1 Leadership effect, B gets nothing;

Situation 2:
A: 1 point, B: 2 points
Aura: A gets +2 Leadership effect, B gets +1 Leadership effect.

Now Let the situation become more complicated:
If both of them get +1 Righteous, then:
Situation 3:
A: 0 point & + 1 bonus, B: 1 point +1 & bonus
Aura: A gets +2 Leadership effect, B gets +1 Leadership effect;

A: 1 point & + 1 bonus, B: 2 point +1 & bonus
Aura: A gets +3 Leadership effect, B gets +2 Leadership effect.

Why I reported this is a bug is because the trait "Obedient" will never take any effect on the Leadership skill - there's no bonus or EXTRA bonus at all.

So, the key problem is not about an EXTRA bonus, but about BONUS.

By the way, Obedient worked correctly in the last version, why should the developers change its function? The patch notes haven't mentioned it. As an IT guy, I can fully understand that bugs will hardly disappear. Their inner game tests may haved work though most of the details but not all, so that's why we are here, discussing the probable bugs.

Nope. I'm a little tired of arguing with some self-appointed theories about this.

Could anyone please check the pictures below carefully again?

The "Obedient" trait awards an extra bonus to the Leadership trait buff *to the player who has a positive Obedient score*. The "extra bonus" it's referring to is +1 to the Willpower ability score through the Leadership trait buff.

This can seem confusing because the trait "Independent" (which is the opposite of the trait "Obedient") also gives +1 to the Willpower ability score.

I'm not sure if that's how it's supposed to work, but that does seem to be the way it's currently working. While the Independent trait and Obedient trait are on opposite sides of the scale, it is possible they are meant to both award players with a bonus to the Willpower ability score, albeit through different means.

I think the game should explain how the Leadership aura works:
It will not effect the character who provides it.
Remember? In the DnD games, a paladin also provides an aura, but it never effects himself/herself.

Right now the Leadership buff doesn't apply to the character who has points in the Leadership ability score.

So, you can have this scenario:

- Jill has a Leadership ability of +1 and an Obedience trait of 0.
- Jack has a Leadership ability of 0, and an Obedience trait of 1.

In this scenario, Jack would have the Leadership buff and (because of the Obedience trait) the Leadership buff would buffing his Willpower Ability score by +1 (as well as Initiative +5 and Damage +10%).

However, Jill (who actually has the Leadership ability) would get no Leadership buff.

If Jack also gained a point in the Leadership ability, Jill would then get the Leadership buff as well. But the buff applied to her doesn't apply a bonus to her Willpower ability score unless she is considered "Obedient" through her traits.

I think the concept of an obedient character receiving a bonus from the Leadership buff makes sense. An obedient character would benefit from Leadership more than one who isn't obedient. I just think the idea of receiving a willpower bonus because you have an obedient personality is a little strange/confusing, to the point where it's going to throw some people and make them wonder if they've stumbled onto a bug.

Yep, you did a better job explaining it than I did. I can see why aimend was confused though; the fact that only the "followers" and not the "leader" get the bonus isn't exactly intuitive per the tooltip. Still, in the end it does make sense, considering the trait is named "Obedient."

No, what you said is not what I would like to express. Obedient takes no effect on any main characters at all. But righteous does.
And as I said just now, "Obedient" worked well in the last version, it did +1 Leadership, but its description doesn't change in the latest update.
If the trait Obedient works as its description, we should see something like "From Obedient: +1" at least.

Different from any other trait like "Righteous", we can't find any similar bonus from "Obedient" anywhere.

Not really.
An excellent game design should be simple and brief, if a trait provides some skill bonus, it is supposed to work on the very skill but the effect of the skill.

You said leadership trait buff gives +1 willpower bonus, that depends.

My screenshots at #495499 showed the fact which was based on rank 1 leadership skill. Only rank 4 or higher Leadership skill will give +1 willpower bonus, and this bonus is provided by the Leadership rank 4+ skill itself, not the bonus from the trait "Obedient".

1) obedient doesn't and shouldn't affect the leadership skill, so you cannot see anything on the descriptions of the leadership skill in screenshots.

2) obedient changes how the leadership skill affects the obedient person (the obedient person is the recipient of leadership, not the leader). You won't see this change in the skill description, you will only see it in the effect of the leadership aura.

=> Obedient = IF an obedient person is subject to the leadership aura, the obedient person gains an additional bonus that is not part of the normal leadership aura/not part of the skill description


For example, in my screenshots, two of my party members have leadership rank 2 (not rank 4), so everyone in the party gets the rank 2 effects of +5 initiative, +10% damage and +10 chance to hit.

But the obedient person gets an additional +1 willpower. This is not due to leadership rank 4 - if it was leadership rank 4, i would also get a bonus to critical hit (rank 3), but i do not.

--
Since you said you are an IT guy, let me use some bad pseudocode to illustrate. For each party member, run this:

if (isObedient(partyMember) && affectedByLAura(partyMember))
{
setAuraEffect(partyMember,getMaxRank(),bonus);
}
if (!isObedient(partyMember) && affectedByLAura(partyMember))
{
setAuraEffect(partyMember,getMaxRank());
}
else {
// do nothing, since not affected by LAura
}

If your theory is right, that will be confusing for players - a bonus of Leadership arua to give +1 extra Willpower?

You know, the trait "Independent" also provides +1 Willpower, so what's the differce between them?

One provides +1 Willpower by Leadership aura, while another provides +1 Willpower directly, and, they provide the same bonus finally?

So, why should they make the two opposite traits in one couple and whatever choice we've made leads the same bonus? It will obviously weird, compared with the other couples of traits - they provide opposite bonus.

I can't check what you said because both of my main characters get 1 Obedient and 1 Independent point now, so the couple of traits will not effect my two main characters even though supposing they work well.

You can switch inventories while trading, but if you try to have the trader identify something which is not in the lead characters inventory, it gives you the popup message, but nothing happens. Your money isn't taken and the item isn't identified.

Nervermind.
It took me a while to figure out that this counts as "strange graphical artefact" It works now.
Thank you for your help, Raze.

I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from here, although maybe I'm just misunderstanding the complaint. The setup I described is very simple to test and confirm.

"Obedient" : awards an extra bonus to the Leadership trait buff *to the player who has a positive Obedient score*. The "extra bonus" it's referring to is +1 to the Willpower ability score through the Leadership trait buff.

"Independent" : awards +1 to the Willpower ability score (the same as "Obedient", but without requiring the Leadership trait buff to deliver the boost.

"Leadership" : provides a buff to members of the party, but not to the character who is supplying the buff to the party. If a party member receiving the buff has the "Obedient" trait, the Leadership buff will also supply them with a boost to their Willpower ability score.

And that's all there is to the whole thing. We're all on the same page with this part, right?

I can provide screenshots showing all this if necessary, but it would be easier to test yourselves. Simply throw two new characters together, make sure one of them has 1 point in Leadership, run to the guards at the bridge prior to Cyseal and comply with them to get the Obedience buff, and you can clearly see how Leadership and Obedience interact by noting who has what buff (and mousing over the buff to see the details).

I've also had the pick up/throw item bug appear.. glad someone was able to tie into the camera angle..

In the fight infornt of the Black Cove, when engaged from this angle of approach the big Orc (visible on the left) remains behind and does nothing, except throwing initial buff onto the smaller ones.

He waits until i clear out those that come closer to me, and only acts when i clear those out.

So... enemies are blocked by lacking clear line of sight? or something?
I hoped that Ai would be good enough to enable him to at least come closer to the line of his fighters and maybe shoot at me from behind them.
(maybe even hitting his own with those salvos - since that would fit with berserk natures of Orcs as they are described here)

He does shoot with more precision then previously.

But, with level five group... i just stomp through.
Otherwise, nicely upgraded fight. (could be better!)