|
apprentice
|
OP
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2014
|
Hello, i see here and there that Steam will be required to install the game. Don't get me wrong, Larian says the game is DRM free and i wasn't able to find the word "Steam" on the official FAQ at this place http://www.divinityoriginalsin.com/faq.phpI pre ordered the game because Larian claimed it is DRM free and i was comfortable with that, because i don't like to have steam around as it runs as "NT AUTHORITY\System" all the time in background. Will i be able to install and play the game offline at some place where internet is impossible to have without pre installing it somewhere else and moving the folder on an external storage device, or should i cancel my pre order before it's too late ? Should i mention it's not written anywhere on the picture of the box available on the vendor's website that the game require Steam for anything, and vendor's description doesn't say steam is mandatory for anything ? (Including installing the game) Best regards, Magissia.
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
|
I'll refer you to this comment from Octaff: Is Steam required for retail version? The DVD contains a steam installer, so yes, steam will have to be installed to be able to download the game. This is mentioned on our larianvault page, but apparantly not on the amazon page.
The game does not contain any DRM though, Steam is just used as a download and update platform. Once the game has been downloaded, you can copy the game and uninstall steam if you want.
To answer your specific questions: 1. Is Steam required to install Divinity:Original Sin from the Collector's Edition? >> yes it is required (install steam, activate game via steam with steam key) 2. Is Steam required to update D:OS from the CE? >> most likely a first day patch will have to be downloaded once installed, yes 3. Is Steam required to play D:OS from the CE in multiplayer? >> you can play d:os in multiplayer via connect to ip or via LAN on the drm free version (without steam). if you want to play with other users on steam (without connect to ip - so via the steam lobby framework), you will have to login to steam.
We apologize for any confusion and thank you for (trying) to purchase our game .
Kind regards,
Octaaf In other words, once the game is installed, you can copy it to another location and remove Steam from your computer.
|
|
|
|
apprentice
|
OP
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2014
|
And there start the problem, Steam will ask for internet after install. What was Larian talking about ? DRM-free ?
I'm sad as I was waiting for this game and was a huge Larian fan.
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
|
And there start the problem, Steam will ask for internet after install. What was Larian talking about ? DRM-free ?
I'm sad as I was waiting for this game and was a huge Larian fan. No, no, no.....you can literally uninstall Steam after installing the game and never deal with it again....you can also copy and back-up the game as you please and all the other things you can do with DRM free games. You ONLY need steam to install the game and that's it....though I wouldn't recommend uninstalling Steam because you'll need it for future updates but otherwise it won't bother you at all.
|
|
|
|
apprentice
|
OP
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2014
|
Thanks for confirming i'm locked with steam to get proper game support.
It means i should comply with Larian's EULA and Valve's one. I don't agree with Valve's politics of inspecting what i do with my computer, i don't agree with their not-so-anonymous statistics mining, i don't agree running a potentially flawed software as System. I don't agree with Valve's auto installation of unnamed software in their EULA (2A). I don't agree that i have no rights on software provided by Steam platforms (meaning i don't have the right to do backup of games i download from Steam). I don't agree with Steam politics to automatically installing/replacing/updating unnamed software without asking me. I don't agree with steam's politics to keep my games private, if a friend come at my house, i want to let the friend play on my computer without breaking any EULA. I don't agree with Valve collecting personal data.
I understand i can uninstall Steam once the game is running, but i won't get steam running on first place, so the game won't too, because of Steam's requirements itself. I will be forced to re install Steam for each game's update, making what would take few seconds for an update a hell, because steam will sync my saves without asking, may even delete them and try to re install the game because i moved the game to a proper location (Program files folder instead of some shady faillure-ish hidden folder that generate problems due to too long path).
As i must log to Steam, there is a Digital Rights Management system in place, the installer will check if I did bought the game using Valve's services before installing the game while i have the bloody DVD on tray. Not checking again later doesn't make the game DRM free, it makes it a DRM game with questionable methods of checking as any one could copy the game's folder to anybody later.
Maybe Larian's wish was just to annoy the end user and not to put a DRM, i don't know, but the game isn't DRM free, it is a fact, and I feel betrayed.
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
|
Thanks for confirming i'm locked with steam to get proper game support.
It means i should comply with Larian's EULA and Valve's one. I don't agree with Valve's politics of inspecting what i do with my computer, i don't agree with their not-so-anonymous statistics mining, i don't agree running a potentially flawed software as System. I don't agree with Valve's auto installation of unnamed software in their EULA (2A). I don't agree that i have no rights on software provided by Steam platforms (meaning i don't have the right to do backup of games i download from Steam). I don't agree with Steam politics to automatically installing/replacing/updating unnamed software without asking me. I don't agree with steam's politics to keep my games private, if a friend come at my house, i want to let the friend play on my computer without breaking any EULA. I don't agree with Valve collecting personal data.
I understand i can uninstall Steam once the game is running, but i won't get steam running on first place, so the game won't too, because of Steam's requirements itself. I will be forced to re install Steam for each game's update, making what would take few seconds for an update a hell, because steam will sync my saves without asking, may even delete them and try to re install the game because i moved the game to a proper location (Program files folder instead of some shady faillure-ish hidden folder that generate problems due to too long path).
As i must log to Steam, there is a Digital Rights Management system in place, the installer will check if I did bought the game using Valve's services before installing the game while i have the bloody DVD on tray. Not checking again later doesn't make the game DRM free, it makes it a DRM game with questionable methods of checking as any one could copy the game's folder to anybody later.
Maybe Larian's wish was just to annoy the end user and not to put a DRM, i don't know, but the game isn't DRM free, it is a fact, and I feel betrayed. You can buy from GOG on day one and if you are a KS backer you can select a GOG copy from your pledge management page on the Larian Vault. Beyond that I can sadly relate to the intense dislike of Steam. I will enjoy the physical goodies from my CE but I'll never install Steam or use it's Steam codes. I will get the game through GOG because I can get a GOG code from my pledge.
Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 09/06/14 01:41 AM.
|
|
|
|
apprentice
|
OP
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2014
|
Thanks for the information.
I don't understand well why the key cannot be reedemed on GOG instead of Steam then.
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
|
Thanks for the information.
I don't understand well why the key cannot be reedemed on GOG instead of Steam then. The short answer would be because Steam sells a lot more so they figured it's more popular so the CE is Steam. I do agree they need to make money and GOG is not popular enough because all the AAA games fear DRM-free like the plague but hopefully with GOG-Galaxy, GOG can start to really pick up pace and start overtaking Steam. That and Larian is a small team and it seems like supporting multiple digital retailers is a huge pain for them. Long answer here: https://www.kickstarter.com/project.../comments?cursor=6958986#comment-6958985
|
|
|
|
apprentice
|
OP
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2014
|
Well, it's technically possible for them to have the key redeemable on GOG, but it's a pain for them. Will try to ask support if it's possible to migrate my key or something before cancelling (or not).
Thanks you both for your answers.
|
|
|
|
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
|
Personally, I don't mind Steam, but yes, Larian could certainly do a better job of communicating with and supporting non-Steam users, even if it's just hosting patches on the Larian Vault.
|
|
|
|
apprentice
|
OP
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2014
|
Personally, I don't mind Steam, but yes, Larian could certainly do a better job of communicating with and supporting non-Steam users, even if it's just hosting patches on the Larian Vault. That's the old way we had on all games at some point and i didn't had problems with that back in the time, yup.
|
|
|
|
Support
|
Support
Joined: Mar 2003
|
Hopefully for Larian's next game they will have the resources to finish plenty of time before release. That would at least make a non-Steam retail release more feasible, though I don't know if it would be any more likely.
When trying to get as much as possible in the game right up until the release (including delaying the release 10 days to finish adding the voice work being done), a non-Steam disk version wouldn't necessarily be updated, so could have features lacking. There would also be triple the amount of QA for the release (testing the disk installer and game, the digital install and game, and then the disk version patch to bring it up to par with the download version), as well as possible additional complications supporting the original disk save format for any future updates.
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
|
Hopefully for Larian's next game they will have the resources to finish plenty of time before release. That would at least make a non-Steam retail release more feasible, though I don't know if it would be any more likely.
When trying to get as much as possible in the game right up until the release (including delaying the release 10 days to finish adding the voice work being done), a non-Steam disk version wouldn't necessarily be updated, so could have features lacking. There would also be triple the amount of QA for the release (testing the disk installer and game, the digital install and game, and then the disk version patch to bring it up to par with the download version), as well as possible additional complications supporting the original disk save format for any future updates.
While I sympathize, those are all things Larian should have considered before committing to a DRM-Free disc. As far as I'm concerned, there won't be a next time if Larian don't make things right this time.
|
|
|
|
Support
|
Support
Joined: Mar 2003
|
As you can see in the kickstarter comment Darth_Trethon linked to above, Larian does not consider Steam to be DRM inherently. It is not a question of considering things, but miss-communication; what some people asked/assumed was not exactly what Larian answered.
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
|
As you can see in the kickstarter comment Darth_Trethon linked to above, Larian does not consider Steam to be DRM inherently. It is not a question of considering things, but miss-communication; what some people asked/assumed was not exactly what Larian answered.
It's on them, they should be clear on what they're talking about or avoid throwing around terms they don't understand. Frankly, I'm quite tired of the clueless dev routine when it comes to some people's aversion to Steam.
|
|
|
|
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Jun 2013
|
As you can see in the kickstarter comment Darth_Trethon linked to above, Larian does not consider Steam to be DRM inherently. It is not a question of considering things, but miss-communication; what some people asked/assumed was not exactly what Larian answered.
Then they are flat-out-wrong. My disc is basically a paperweight with a steam key on it. Swen & Co. are all in on Steam. That much is obvious from his various posts on the blog. EVERYONE knows what DRM free means with regards to physical copies. It's willful ignorance.
|
|
|
|
Support
|
Support
Joined: Mar 2003
|
Gonchi Yes, if Larian knew at the time the retail version would be Steam, they should have been clear about that, and they could have been explicit when announcing the CE (though I don't know how many retail versions come with Steam keys and have a separate, non-Steam version on disk). Likewise, if you've seen so many people throw around terms that they don't understand that you are tired of this situation, you could have explicitly asked if the retail version was Steam.
|
|
|
|
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2006
|
We use Steam because it's the best digital delivery system we have at our disposal. When a better one will pop up, we'll use that. Our focus is on developing the game and not on developing all the logistics it would require to come up with an alternative. We *cannot* develop this game if we can't patch and I frankly think the way we're doing it now is vastly better than the way it used to be where it was a rare thing for people to actually get your patches. Now at least the large majority (i.e. everybody except those who refuse to connect) get the best version of the game.
All Kickstarter backers have the option to use a Steam or a GOG key, even if they have a box in their tier, they will still get that option. Steam currently has better services than GOG and D:OS will use those, hence it makes sense we offer a Steam version to our retail customers. Digitally, you can make the choice yourself.
If this is not sufficient, I'm afraid there's nothing else we can do, so in that case you are better off asking for a refund and we will give one. We want people to have fun, not feel like they're being taken advantage off.
|
|
|
|
addict
|
addict
Joined: Jun 2013
|
I don't see what the fuss is about here. Aside from one time installation of Steam client (if you don't already have it installed) the game would not enforce any DRM or even require for user to be online - you can play the game in Steam's offline mode. So what is so horrible about that? That some program is working in the background while you're playing? That's just silly. I don't get what beef people have with Steam in general either. It's a great platform that gets your games automatic updates, has very high download speeds, cloud saves and many things more. And if there is ever DRM involved it is not because Valve decides to include it - it's that game's publishers\developers prerogative, Steam is just a distributon service.
|
|
|
|
stranger
|
stranger
Joined: Jul 2004
|
We use Steam because it's the best digital delivery system we have at our disposal. When a better one will pop up, we'll use that. Our focus is on developing the game and not on developing all the logistics it would require to come up with an alternative. We *cannot* develop this game if we can't patch and I frankly think the way we're doing it now is vastly better than the way it used to be where it was a rare thing for people to actually get your patches. Now at least the large majority (i.e. everybody except those who refuse to connect) get the best version of the game.
All Kickstarter backers have the option to use a Steam or a GOG key, even if they have a box in their tier, they will still get that option. Steam currently has better services than GOG and D:OS will use those, hence it makes sense we offer a Steam version to our retail customers. Digitally, you can make the choice yourself.
If this is not sufficient, I'm afraid there's nothing else we can do, so in that case you are better off asking for a refund and we will give one. We want people to have fun, not feel like they're being taken advantage off. Thank you. Given the circumstances, I would like to opt either to be switched to a digital only tier or for a refund. Where should I address the request?
|
|
|
Moderated by ForkTong, gbnf, Issh, Kurnster, Larian_QA, LarSeb, Lar_q, Lynn, Monodon, Raze, Stephen_Larian
|
|