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Thanks for your reply.

I don't want a refund or anything like that. The GOG.com copy alleviates most of my issues. But There is no way I would have pledged for a physical tier when it's tied to a Steam key though. It's basically pointless.

One of the main reasons I like Physical copies to be completely clean is the issue of version changes. You may consider the latest version the best version of that game. Heck 90% of the time that's true.
But in some cases it isn't. Maybe the latest version breaks a mod you love. Or perhaps you flat out don't like some of the changes.

The latter is perfectly encapsulated by GOG/CDProjekts own Witcher 2. They patched that game many times and past about the third version I did not like any of the changes. Even with a DRM free GOG.com copy there is no way to get those older versions anymore. They only offer for download the latest version. Steam operates much the same way. The only way I could get that version is if I still had my 1.0 disc and manually patched up. But with discs being tied to online portals now this is flat out impossible.

Based on how Dragon Commander went down I'm not at all surprised by your decision. I still don't like it.

Email support@larian.com.

My feelings exactly. I pledged at the $65 tier because I wanted the physical copy, but a DVD that is basically just a Steam key is not a physical copy. I had pledged at a lower tier initially and then upgraded my pledge to include the box copy, and I definitely would not have done that if I had known about this.

So right now my options are switching to the $65 digital tier and getting Dragon Commander, which I don't really want, or getting a DVD which is largely pointless. I can understand the appeal of Steam from Larian's point of view, but I still think that this was a very unfortunate decision, and I'll certainly keep this in mind should they do another Kickstarter in the future.

I'm trying to see this from Larian's point of view and while I understand how it helps the logistics of patching, I guess I'm bewildered at the point of going through the trouble of having a physical disk at all if it just sends you to Steam. I suspect that the attraction of the physical copy for many of the Kickstarter backers like myself is because we wanted a copy of the game that doesn't require an internet connection and one we know will always be there regardless of whether Steam or GOG is in business. *shrug* I love Larian but quite dislike this turn of events.

I agree, that really does not make any sense at all if you can't actually install the game from the DVD, but have to download it from a digital service. What is it for, a decorative coaster?

I'm copying this from my reply to Helena on the Kickstarter thread:


It seems that DRM-free means a lot of different things to different people. For us it's definitely the definition that refers to copy protection, copy prevention, and copy control, such that you can make backups and play offline. It's why we include direct IP and LAN play in addition to online play for multiplayer. It's why there's no copy protection on the game. It's also why we put it on GOG.

The link between that and not putting an auto-patch or mandatory day 1 patch system in place on the physical DVD is not at all obvious for us.I also honestly cannot recall us saying that there would not be a patch day 1. If I or anybody @Larian did that, that was in any case a very unfortunate mistake.

We always intended this game to be "live" as we'd be updating it continuously, given that the engine is core to our future strategy. In that vision, it's a normal thing to have a patch system in place and it's not abnormal to work with a mandatory day 1 patch.

The DVD is not a "coaster" either. It contains the majority of game data and will make the download significantly smaller.

We realise some people may not agree with that, but we have to make choices. We prefer to work on the game until the last minute and that means we need to use mandatory patching. We do this because it results in a higher quality game experience - and we think that in the long run this will be more beneficial for the large majority of players.

It's not perfect but from the space of possible options, to us this seemed the best.

You do know you can download once from gog and then never have to rely on that service ever again do you? I admit I personally prefer not needing a client process in the background or permanent internet connection when installing/playing a game, and that's exactly why I like gog. Additionaly, digital service means no data corruption. Ever. Unlike DVDs (which contain a LOT of error correction code and will eventually fail to work one day). Plus it's the easiest way to get updates.


Glad to have it confirmed. But why has gog not announced a thing?


Well said.

Yes, and you do know that I mentioned having something that doesn't require an internet connection (read:ever), right? Your condescending tone aside, it's not a major deal to me as I planned on downloading from GOG anyway, it just makes the entire issue a head scratcher as to why one would even bother to make a DVD at this point. Just ship a steam key and save yourself the hassle and arguably false advertising.

condescending
conｷdeｷscendｷing
(kon-duh-sen-ding)
adjective
Showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority

Ah, I did not know that word before. Thank you Windemere!

Thank goodness. You have no idea how glad I am to hear that. I'm so tired of getting physical boxes with a disc that have nothing on them other than a Steam installer (and no game data).

The whole point of my getting a physical disc is to have a copy of the game that can installed anytime anywhere without having to have an internet connection.

I've been copying down the quotes from the Kickstarter comments page: this may help ease your mind:





Full quote and source link:

Steam Version Required for patching - 5

I hope there is enough interest that they go through with it.

I would also like to see a second print-run for a disc with a whole playable game on it - like the one "Divine Divinity" disc I bought over ten years ago: insert the disc, install the game and play it.

While I am also more or less OK with the game disc requiring the Steam day 1 patch, I think the majority of backers who pledged for a physical copy did it specifically because they didn't want to have to deal with Steam (or even GOG). Otherwise, what is the purpose of a physical edition? Just another dust collector?

I don't believe Larian will ship a game disc with the physical goods for any further upcoming game. Now of course, they regret not having the whole physical != Steam business for DOS having thought through.

I placed my order for the CE box a few days ago and now I'm torn between going ahead with it and getting a refund. I hate game clients. Will the disk copy be tied to your steam account when you're updating it or will it simply update it without tying it to your account? I would've preferred a direct download link to the day 1 patch. They could also just write a no-steam installer which takes the disk as the source and installs the game, if such a thing is possible. We can then update the game manually.



In that case, this will be my last Larian purchase.

^ On an unrelated note, the fake new-user advertisement spam on the forums is getting pretty bad these past few weeks. I don't think it's going to go away on its own, only worsen over time. Any solutions being worked on internally?

On the other hand, I now know where to go if I need a fake passport.

Edit: I am not talking about Frostbite's post above mine, by the way. There was an advertisement post between us.

Now we are close together instead.

I deleted the spam you were referring to. I've made a few suggestion to deal with spammers, which I hope will be implimented after D:OS is released and Larian has time to work on some updates to the forum (some security measures, support for kickstarter badges, etc).

Please read my post about Valve's EULA. It's not just about Steam itself, it's about the permissions you have to give them. You may not understand what are the risks but as a system administrator point of view i do see them. Non administrative software should never be run as administrator. Steam is not run as administrator, it's worse, it's running as System, it have more permission than you, owner of the machine.

I sent a mail, but sent it to info@ and not support@(because the website point to info@ ). Will wait a bit before re sending to support@. I hope to find a solution that doesn't involve getting a refund or accepting Valve's EULA, because i want the game and i hope the game i buy will help Larian. (Even if they made a mistake by forcing steam on physical discs, they still make good games, don't want them to go down)

The person who handles the info@ address may be the same as the general support email, anyway. If not, it can easily be forwarded to the appropriate person.