Originally Posted by PeteNewell

Originally Posted by Gyson

Originally Posted by PeteNewell


[*]Seeded crappy loot in a major reward actually feels worse than RNG crappy loot. I didn't just get sucker punched: I got sucker punched however many hours ago I started the game, and I have no recourse to judicious save-scumming to keep the fun from draining out.


I can't say I agree with this. Unless you intentionally try to work out/seek information on how loot generation is implemented, to the player they open a chest and rewards are within. Whether the items were determined the moment you opened the chest or hours/days/weeks earlier shouldn't matter.

At least, not until you start to try and game the system, at which point it does matter.

If you find yourself in a situation where you are going outside the flow of the game to "correct" a situation (e.g. essentially "cheating" by save scumming because you're unhappy with the items in a chest) something is failing, perhaps on more than one level. The fact that you feel it's necessary to do, the fact that the game enables you to do it, etc.. the game is no longer be played as designed at that point.

And yes, I feel comfortable saying that about the design so long as save scumming isn't proudly listed somewhere with a bullet point in a game's feature list. Until that day it's a shortcoming being abused, not a feature being utilized.


Thanks, Gyson, for once again explaining to me how I am wrong about my own reactions and experiences when I'm playing games.

God knows how I'd get along if I had to figure myself out by myself. Don't ever change.

Thanks as well for explaining to me that I have fun wrong. Cheating in single-player games has been a burgeoning problem in the Newell household for decades, now, and no-one ever seems to have stopped to Think Of The Children.

I can only hope someday to be able to make up to you the incalculable damage I must have done to your enjoyment of your leisure time, not to mention the legions of poor developers whose lives I must have blighted by my appalling abuse of their hearts' work. If only someone had warned them of the terrible mistakes they made in enabling me to trammel their art. If only I had listened to those wiser than I, when they warned and admonished me.

I am saddened and ashamed. I can only thank God I never took up solitaire: the potential social damage doesn't bear consideration.

Note for clarity (although I don't really expect you'll read this one either): I am not calling you a child. I don't believe or mean to imply that you are a child, or behave like a child, or that I think either of those is the case. I am using a common touchpoint for melodrama and unwarranted, intrusive concern, as I reject what I consider to be your annoyingly judgmental use of terms like "cheat" and "abuse" in this context.


So.. I'm looking at my response to you, and then looking at your response to me, and wondering how in the heck mine warranted yours.

For the record, when I said "If you find yourself in a situation where you are going outside the flow of the game to "correct" a situation (e.g. essentially "cheating" by save scumming because you're unhappy with the items in a chest) something is failing, perhaps on more than one level. The fact that you feel it's necessary to do, ... " that last bit was not referring to some suspected deeprooted cheater tendencies in the "Newell household".

I was actually referring to shortcomings in how loot is implemented that leave people feeling like they have to save-scum just to get desperately needed items. e.g. going through a rough boss battle and then the game randomly rewarding you with absolutely nothing anyone in your party can use. When the game does something like that and puts players in a position where they feel they need to save-scum just to break even, that aspect of the design (I feel) has failed.

That is really the only part of my statement that I think could have been taken the wrong way. If that was the case.. maybe just ask me to clarify next time?