Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Game Balance : Melee is terrible

I have to say, the advantages of a melee character are there, you just have to realise what they are.

1. When a melee character uses an AoE, it only hits the enemy. For spellcasters, they manage to blow up the melee guy standing there (or another caster if they got swarmed by the enemy).
2. Melee hits early on are much more powerful, the 400 points quoted could be achieved with an orange weapon at level 7 (assuming no absorb of course).
3. Melee is not just about melee, they can help someone stand up, throw a big heal as a last resort, even knock down from range. All before leaving Cyseal.
4. Scoundrels deal less damage (I've yet to see a dagger hit for 100, per swing, since if a 2h can crit for 400 at a cost of 4 aps, then a dagger should manage 100 per swing for 2 aps to be the same dmg per ap) but they have given scoundrels more CC. If hasted, I can throw a stun, blind and knock down in the same round on separate opponents. Caster CC is generally more expensive, leading to more prohibitive useage.

Also, while Str chars do get more damage per swing, Dex ones have the option to pull out a bow, ricochet for some nice AoE and then fire a special arrow to deal some hefty damage.... before teleporting to stab the enemy mage in the back.

So no, I disagree melee is terrible, I also think you need to go back and re-examine what terrible means, You can play an all caster group because you personally think it's better, sure, but I intend to keep going with my 2 caster, dex and str party doing just fine.

TB games need to rethink. Too many have the Magic always hits and the Melee has a % to hit, huge advantage.

Two other games I'm playing right now: Paper Sorcerer and Lords of Xumila, same thing.

That said over in steam there are strong arguments that focused melee characters are quite strong.

Yeah, I'm not sure how melee is terrible. A tank is almost needed in this game to handle the enemies and that's what melees do.

The only relevant point you have is that these tank characters don't output as much damage since their movement cost and hit cost have high ap values but that's not their purpose anyway. They are frontline fighters to draw the attention of multiple enemies and tank for your ranged.

Rouges are an entirely different story who simply blow up enemies and aren't addressed by your points.

I think the most systemic issue is the stat points and their functions. Int does all you would need, so the scant few points your character gets are plenty. Melee, however wants speed, strength, constitution, let alone the whole hybrid character topic. Maybe the solution is as simple as making it so characters get more stat points, but those points have less drastic effects so you could feasibly hybridize a character. Maybe the solution is as simple as adding more skills for strength and dexterity, or even constitution. There could be a constitution-modified skill group that gives buffs to melee like increased damage or resists. Or maybe the game is exactly where Larian wants it and no "solution" is necessary.
A basic question: at high levels, what percentage of your stat points have to be put into strength in order to use skills and equipment effectively?

My friend and I run with a Melee/Caster set up. I'm the caster. There's a few things wrong with what you're saying.

Each magical element has a variety of CC or damage, sure. The problem is that the elements are just that. If you're focusing on Fire and you come up on a boss that's healed by Fire, you're outta luck. Actually, if anything, burning them might give them a heal over time. To focus on different trees requires you put skills in all the trees so you actually have some variety to begin with. Melee fighters are a lot different. All you need for that is to keep a weapon around that's a different element than the one you're running, and you're multifunctional.

Now, another issue was that your heal wasn't very good? It heals a lot, but it's a single burst heal for emergencies. You're not a healing class. That's why you have a mage that uses Hydro, so they can keep you up with Heals over Time and the like. Having problems getting to the enemy? Mage backs you up with Haste from Pyro. Need more defense? Mage shields you with Geo.

Wizards can fill a lot of roles, but what they can't do is tank. A good pair will have a caster focusing on healing, CC and buffs/debuffs while the melee fighter runs in and wipes the floor with the enemies. The only times we've wiped have really been my fault, when I threw down a Rain and accidentally ended up shocking the puddle with my partner's tip-toes in there to stun them. Once they go down, I'm done for.

Mages can't handle everything themselves, and melee classes tend to be the ones with all the defenses and methods of closing distance quickly. I play it as a support system, and it works a lot better.

You create a "melee-based tank, with a focus on damage mitigation" and you're complaining about not being able to deal enough damage?!? Shouldn't you be ensuring that enemies aren't attacking your teammates (even if that means you simply block the enemies movement)?

While I've yet to play the game, isn't there a melee skill that allows you to leap to a target? Also, the damaging field sounds similar to BG where strategy was needed to not kill your party members (I'd ask my mage wtf they were doing).

That's an interesting point I've never really noticed. Imagine if spells were affected by cover and hit chance. They would work very similar to a game like XCOM or Wasteland 2.

Spell Casters definitely rule the roost in this game. Ranged weapons still require to hit chance, melee still requires to hit chance, bows get consumable magic arrows, picking locks and disarming traps are affected by consumables, and yet spells are only limited by recharge time and action point cost (which most other abilities are limited with also).

Well, not so much.

Melee fighter: chance/risk to hit, but putting out a lot of damage

Mage: always hit but only with little damage (compared to melee), chance/risk for secondary effects (stunning/freezing/burning....)


Wait, that's not true. If you only put points intelligence your spells are powerful but you don't even have enough action points to use them. Speed is useful for every build/class since it increases action points. And you can also hyrid a mage (one of my two mages is for example a part time rogue searching for traps and stuff which needs points in perception)...

I'm only a few hours in but the ranger does seem pretty powerful at the moment with the different arrows you can get for them (explosive, poisonous, steam etc). Mind you, my warrior is dishing out more regular damage still so we'll see in a few hours if this continues.

Big Question: How do i force Enemys to attack my Melee Tank? they allways ignore my Melee and run straight to my Ranger and Mage. I will try Stench for my Ranger since she isnt the Trader in the group but it should work without D:


Mages with Multiple Schools can summon up to 3 (maybe even more?) Pets to tank and the Pets draw alot of aggro. The game needs active Aggro Management (this would be amazing in Co-op!). So far my Melee Tank is useless against large groups of enemys (the 2 groups in Front of EVelynns hideout for example with 5+ members) since they just ignore him and run straight to my Ranger and Jehan (and no the Melee doesnt have stench :P). Maybe i should drop Lone Wolf so i can take the 2H Warrior with me but that would require a reroll :c

If melee chars suck so much, maybe you should make a party of all mages and see how that goes?

(Not sarcasm, genuinely interested in the results)

I disagree with your assessment of melees in this game. Madora is invaluable to me and you seem to forget that Man at Arms gets many talents which help them to draw and survive enemy fire.
Melees in this game are really well suited to rush into the fight and keep enemies away from your ranged characters thanks to stuff like attack of Opportunity, Sidewinder, Battering Ram, etc.



You force them trough CC and damage. After I did my CC/damage routine with Madora most enemies attack her. The very few who do not are usually not a problem.

the Problem is not that Melees suck (2H with Melee Precision Stance are beast and scoundrels can CC 2-4 targets in 1 turn). The Problem is that theyre supposed to be Damage Sponges with High Armor/Resistances (as Strenght Characters) but the enemys usually ignore them (atleast in my case) 90% of the time. The aggro seems to be totally Random for some reason summoned pets for exAMPLE are attacked 99% of the time after they did attack once.

and a full Mage Group with Pyro/Geo, Hydro/Aero and Witchcraft/Aero is a walk in the park. As soon as you unlock the Elemental Summons you can attack groups of enemys 2-3 Level higher and you will win 90% of the time without taking damage. Oil the ground, ignite it, Teleport enemys into the fire and let the Elementals tank. If the enemy is Fire Immune just use Ice and Lightning Skills (you SHOULD be able to buy some decent skills).

I am pretty sure you can do the same with Ranger, Rogue and Warrior setup if you abuse skills like Walk in Shadows and Back stab religiously. My rogue can fell a high priority targets in one round or severely damage it most of the time, activate Fast Track, Walk in Shadows and do the same again. More often than not that is two targets down in 1-3 rounds. Mages cannot do this usually since their spells cost a lot of AP while a 100% crit dagger attack costs 2 AP.

Oh and to people who complain about melee skills and ranged attacks being able to miss, those attacks can crit and benefit from Bully. Spells cannot either.

There are a lot of magic immunity though, e.g. Flame skeletons are immune to poison and is healed by fire, rendering a pyro/geo Mage useless except for summons

I agree me lee needs some kind of aggro retention skill to be better tanks

No, melee doesn't need aggro. This is not your theme-park MMO.
This game is mainly meant as a SP RPG game, you need to find a way to protect your party members in other ways, not the boring "trinity" stuff.
Maybe you should not make your mage glass-cannon only and think about his own protection as well. Maybe you melee should not be a damage sponge but a brutal front line damage dealer that can kill enemies before they reach your mages.

My mage literally has the Glass Cannon talent and I survive just fine so far in normal with 1-2 points spent in Speed.
Keep your distance, invest 1 point in Aerothurge for Teleport and 1 point in Hyddrosophist for Minor Heal and you should do fine.

But that's what the OP is complaining about, that his melee isn't slaughtering everything as efficiently as the magic classes and the magic ones don't need a tank

I surely dont play my Sword and Board as a Brutal Frontliner that can slaughter everything in its way because it isnt possible (the dmg is not enough :P). Lowering the Cooldowns of the Melee skills would help alot (6-8 turns for Basic Skills aviable at level 1? wtf?).

For the cooldowns on melee skills i agree to some extent. The mobility ones should be lowered.
But not the damage ones.
In Early Access they were on very low CD and did brutal damage to such extend that i didn't need auto-attack at all, which was bad and i am glad the warrior has to autoattack now, but the mobility skills, which the warrior needs could use a bit of lowering on the CD especially on the basic mobility skills.