Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Game Balance : Melee is terrible

That basically means you devote about half of your AP just summoning stuff which dies in one round dealing little to no damage instead of doing something more useful.
Against ranged enemies a Poison spell followed by a Fireball not only deals more damage but also creates a steam cloud or just use a Steam arrow with some ground effects which the AI usually tries to circumvent.
Rain + 2 Mages with a cold spells -> easy CC if enemies try to target them.

Or let a melee charge into ranged via Battering Ram, even if they do not fall down they will most of the time attack the warrior. Let your rogue sneak in and let him take out one enemy via backstab, go invisible again and do it again next round. Thanks to Fast Track and some points in speed will enable the rogue to. Make sure to give the melees Bully and provide some CC. Voila, easily trashing any non boss monsters.

In short, the topic itself is a joke. Melees are good to great depending on build, they have the highest single target damage, some nice CC and buffs + best mobility (Battering Ram, Fast Track) especially if you invest some into armor skill for the plate wearing types which you should anyway.

I devote one Third of my AP in the First Round yes and since the KI is stupid as hell my Summond doesnt even die + use the right Summon and Heal it with your Spells easy.
Fire Elemental -> use Fire Spells.
And all Enemies gather around that Elemental ( Sometimes Ranged ones too ) -> perfect for Aoe.
And if you dont have AP in fight summon it before you start fighting them.

Also Poison + Fire = explosion
Steam = Water + Fire and its useless because it does not deal any Damage.

Also who is talking about Double Mages? I clearly said all the time im playing Mage + Warrior with double Lone Wolf and thats where it comes in handy that Summons eat all CCs.

I disregard special circumstances. I am talking in general since a game of such complexity cannot be balanced 100% perfectly for every type of gameplay, never has, never has been.
There has yet to be provided an argument for melees being terrible aka useless.

Nice to see the community here is as confrontational as any other game!

At the risk of wading in, I wouldn't go as far as to say melee is 'broken', but I defnately feel my some melee characters have more disadvantates and could do with some balancing - particularly Sword & Shield style.

I currently run with a Sword and Board character (Madora, yes she has 2 wasted 2-H points) and find that she has a negligible affect during the first few turns of battle, and less input overall. I also play with a Rogue, who I feel does far better at moving (due to higher AP) and does reasonable Backstab damage.

Changes I would like to see:
-Being able to get into the heat of battle faster - either more AP (less reduction via armor) or lower CD movement skills.
-More AoE capability. This doesn't have to be a 'one spin kills everyone' arrangement, but the lower level AoE could be lowered. Consider the variety of AoE mages can pull out, plus using single target spells to trigger environmental AoE.
-'Tanky' skills. Admittedly I've only played to level 10, but I am atad disappointed that there are no defensive abiltiees. Something like 'reduce damage taken for X turns', or a shield bash would make S&S more interesting. Possibly a taunt or higher threat generation to make the role functional.
-As someone suggested earlier, merging Shield skills with either Single-Handed or Armour skills so Tanky types aren't spreading points so thinly.

I agree with a previous poster that there seems to have been a major focus on Magic and environmental effects, which I love, but a few tweeks to Man at Arms would be nice.

You know if people would stop blatantly lying I would not get so involved but claiming that melee is worthless and terrible -> gross hyperbole.

Edit: Oh and please no taunt.

To your list:
5 points in armor and the penalty is gone.
Aoe should remain mage specialty. I'd rather see armor debuffs.
More defensive abilties would be neat.

Thats your problem right there. You have a single simpleton notion of what are characters for - because youre a devolved mass market MMO player and youre just hitting your head against a wall of your own nonsense.





Yes really. Character builds do not have a single role.

So you can use them for other purposes instead of idiotically trying to make them into damage soaking "tanks" over and over and over.

And if you dont then its your own fault.

- Less stupid then you, thats for sure mate. If you really wanted to know.



Its a kind of magic.

magic... magic...

MAAAGIC!




Yes, i can also see the balance problem there.
of the hormonal nature.



Wut? :lol:

Look... it all depends on how youve setup and created your characters. This is not a game with classes. Its a classless game. All parameters of any build affect its use, damage and behavior.

Its just too much for your brain and thats alright.



Try attacking the group thats guarding a hermit shack in the east, then let me know how they dont attack your 2H fighters or whatever.


Put in the simple enough terms so you can grasp it... the Ai is diverse, it doesnt have a single simple schtick for simpleton players like you to exploit. Sometimes they attack summons, sometimes they dont. They attack my 2H Madora, and they attack my shadowblade and my mage - depending ON DIFFERENT PARAMETERS.

And its different depending on levels of enemies and design of specific encounter - and on what you do.

It all differs from encounter to encounter and you only got stuck on a few or maybe one example and went screaming about it. But its only because you play BADLY.

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT BRING YOUR FIGHTER IN FRONT OF AN ENEMY AND THEN EXPECT IT TO GET STUCK ON IT JUST BECAUSE YOU WOULD WANT IT TO.

It simply isnt. Damage wise it isnt.
The Main Problem is that 2 Handed >> 1 Handed + Shield.
You gain nothing from having a Tank and thats the Problem. Not Melee in General.
As I said: Melee is the closest one to being OP because of the Extremly High Damage Spikes (10k+ with on Attack ).
1 Handed + Shield has no Place in this game.
They should be Tanks but nobody needs it + it isnt working.

Mages have Invisibilty against too hard Enemies ( 1 Round Cooldown ^^ )
Dex based Characters have Invisibility and a lot of Escape Spells.
2 Handed Warriors couldnt even use Tanks + they one Shot everything.

To Fix this 1 Handed + Shield should be one Skill not two because its cleary a Disadvantage if you have to spend 30 of your 49 ( without Lonewolf ) Skillpoints into it instead of 15 like the Two Handed Warrior.
Also Skills scale with your Weapon Damage -> Way more Dmg for the same AP with a Two Handed Weapon.
Just give us some Shield Skills with a new Skill Tree.

Lets call it the Defender und the 2 Handed Tree remains Man at Arms.
Give Man at Arms Dmg and Mobility Skills with a High Cooldown with High Damage.
Also give it Traits to increase the Damage ( like Bully ) or even a Berserk Trait ( you gain Damage as you loose Health ).


Give the Defender CC and Support Skills. Like:
Shield Bash: Bash and Enemy with your Shield. Chance to Stun. Moves the Enemy some Meters away.
Scales with your >Shield<.
Stand your Ground: Loose all Movement ( Toggle like the Stances ): Increasing your Defense even more and block more Space ( so Enemies cant run around you ).
Got you: You can Jump near an Ally and Increase his Defense for a little Time.
Barrier: You have a wider Range to block incoming Spells and Arrows for Protecting your Group.

Also Move the Traits that Increase your Life by 25%, increase your Magic Resistance by 50% and your Armor by 15 to this instead of Man at Arms.


With this One Handed + Shield would be viable and Two Handed Warrior wouldnt be an unstopable Force ( thanks to the traits ).

I love when stuff lines up like that.

I sense this thread has ceased to have any real meaning (cue: "it never did!" resposne by random internet person).

:lol:




:lol:

Most have been relatively civil. Maybe ignore Hiver and argue with people who do not act like him?

"The Main Problem is that 2 Handed >> 1 Handed + Shield."

This is not true for a backstabber. My rogue takes out even tougher opponents routinely in one round of backstabbing or injures them enough that they can be easily taken down by party members whose turn come up after her.
Backstabbing works always when you are directly behind a target albeit not easy to get behind them without stealth or invisibility without drawing aggro.

Someone not automatically agreeing with you is confrontational now is it?
Going for ad hominems and crying immediately eh?

Thats certainly new.

[/quote]

I love it when other poeple start it and then play victims when they run out of any actual arguments, if they ever had any.

And going so far to edit something i said into a strawmn - as a quote is just laughably pathetic.



You sense is as right as your cheap strawmans.

:lol:

Well the Disscussion is quite nice. Except for some Random Persons.
So lets see:
Nearly everyone thinks one handed is not worth it and i stated all the Reasons why it is inferior to Two Handed.
On the other hand we have Hiver who said its equal because of ... well yeah Reasons.
Wow I am impressed.
One Handed is clearly as good as Two Handed.

I also liked it when you said "Character builds do not have a single role. "
You are totally right. Thanks to the Tons of Men at Arms Skills we have Melees have a lot of Roles.
Like dealing Damage or dealing Damage. I also like how they can Deal Damage.
Lets see what we have for Equipment.
Since we cant tank and just deal Damage. Hmm i could use this clearly Superior One Handed Weapon ( Thanks Hiver for pointing it out ) or use a Weapon that actually deals Damage.

Thats so diverse and good. I should clearly use my Shield to attack. OH WAIT it doesnt work.
The only use for Shields is absorbing Damage. Which i cant!

I already gave an example where 1 handed can outdamage 2 handed...

" I should clearly use my Shield to attack. OH WAIT it doesnt work.
The only use for Shields is absorbing Damage. Which i cant!"

Really? Try equipping it.

Sorry with One Handed i meant Warrior one handed ^^
Rogues are another thing and i know they can deal alot of Damage.

I'm not very far into the game and didn't really touch the beta, so my voice isn't one of experience. However, from my seven or so hours of playing, two-handed weapons seem to be a perfectly viable playstyle. Damage is good and man-at-arms abilities are versatile. There doesn't seem to be a legitimate trade off for taking a shield, though, at least not early game. Damage is lower, and it doesn't mitigate damage reliably. Fighter cooldowns could be lowered across the board; there's no reason some of them should be effectively one-battle only.

I think you guys, complaining about the 1h + shield build on the warrior, are getting it wrong.
You have some presumption that this build should be a slave damage sponge for other classes.
Maybe you are getting it wrong.
The 1h build maybe just excels in being survivable on its own. Yes it can't dish out the damage a 2h warrior can, and that's how it is logical to be, 2h warrior - the brutal damage dealer, a cultural thing if you want, it doesn't have the aoe of the mage, logical, but it has the highest survivability while being in the fray of the battle.
If you want a walnut that won't break while other party members try to survive there you go 1h + board.
being defensive doesn't mean you have to die for other party members, it could just mean you are tough on your own and don't need so much other party members to help you while you do your thing, chopping bit by bit the enemy, applying CC where needed and so on.
Just don't apply your MMO mentality here.
Maybe if you want a glass cannon mage that dies when spit on, you shouldn't expect your 1h + board puppet to defend you - just rethink your mage maybe? Or try another combination of skills, that gives the mage a little bit survivability on his own.

Thanks thought it should stay in my Inventory.

Hmm tried and yeah my Mage gets still focused and my Summon even more but now i can deal less Damage which is great.

And thats exactly the Problem.
You dont need someone who can stay on his own.
Enemies dont deal enough Damage and 2 Handed Warriors can Instakill most + a Two Handed Warrior can get the most important Defensive Skills too ( 50% Magic Resistance, 25% extra Life, 15 Extra Armor ).
The Shield is just the Cherry on the Cake.
Its nice but its not important whether i reduce 300 Damage to 50 or to 60.
But a dead Enemy does no Damage at all -> A Two Handed Warrior survives longer because there is nothing left to kill him.

I understand your point. It goes to the conclusion that the defensive warrior type is useless and has no meaning and brings nothing even on its own on the table (i don't play one so i am concluding this from your posts).
Why would anyone want to play something that doesn't do anything meaningful apart from pure roleplay desires. Ok, if that is the case with 1h + shield it has some point. Maybe a not so good design decision on Larian side or maybe just that's what they wanted to do - add this build for pure roleplay reasons.
But then how would Larian design the defensive warrior without turning this into the boring, mindless MMO spank+tank mentality?