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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jun 2014
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I'm only going to continue replying to educate, because what you're talking about has nothing to do with routines that can damage systems or causing abnormal heat.
Anyone who had overheating and crashing issues with SC2 at the time would have had the exact same issues running a stress test (which most people never run). The problem in that case is that the game was rendering frames as fast as it possibly could, which results in 100% usage regardless of what is going on in the game. It was not going above 100%, and it was not being heated more than any other application running at 100% usage.
Most games do not run at 100% GPU or CPU at all times, unless you have a significant bottleneck or the game is demanding for your machine. This is why people would report a problem with SC2, because they had never experienced it elsewhere (since even Crysis for example may not run the GPU at 100%).
It has nothing to do with routines or 'where' things are coded, it was simply running at 100% and people with poor cooling solutions were getting crashes.
I should also mention that you can't damage a GPU or CPU unless you overvolt it, and even then it's very difficult. Hardware these days all have thermal limits and will shut down (as you know!) if they reach that point, which is well before any damage will be caused.
tl;dr 100% is 100%. If your cooling is bad, your system can throttle or shut down. If your system can't run 100% CPU and GPU without crashing, you have a problem with your hardware.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: May 2003
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Hello Dwarf, welcome to the forums!
Sorry to hear of your issues. I personally have a Raedon 6900 HD graphics card, but only one and have not experienced any issues.
First, I'd uninstall the driver and then reinstall it. If that still won't help then to not only disable crossfire, but totally remove a graphics card from your computer. If that one overheats, then try just the other.
It can be possible this is a driver problem or a hardware problem. The game shouldn't be giving anyone an issue like this as over 60k players have been able to play.
Also, in the future be sure to buy a nVidia graphics card when getting an Intel processor as those companies really work together to ensure the most efficient driver is made possible. Raedon and ATI do the same thing.
Last edited by LightningLockey; 02/07/14 05:54 AM.
Every time there I run into trouble on the road, there is always a dwarf at the bottom of it. Don't they know how to drive above ground?
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addict
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addict
Joined: Apr 2013
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Raedon and ATI do the same thing. Presumably you meant ATI and AMD (Radeon is the product line, ATI is/was the manufacturer)? In which case, I should point out that ATI is owned by AMD, and has been for several years, now. Having said that, there's no reason you can't run Nvidia GPU's with AMD CPU's, or AMD/ATI GPU's with Intel CPU's.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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I'm only going to continue replying to educate, because what you're talking about has nothing to do with routines that can damage systems or causing abnormal heat.
Anyone who had overheating and crashing issues with SC2 at the time would have had the exact same issues running a stress test (which most people never run). The problem in that case is that the game was rendering frames as fast as it possibly could, which results in 100% usage regardless of what is going on in the game. It was not going above 100%, and it was not being heated more than any other application running at 100% usage.
Most games do not run at 100% GPU or CPU at all times, unless you have a significant bottleneck or the game is demanding for your machine. This is why people would report a problem with SC2, because they had never experienced it elsewhere (since even Crysis for example may not run the GPU at 100%).
It has nothing to do with routines or 'where' things are coded, it was simply running at 100% and people with poor cooling solutions were getting crashes.
I should also mention that you can't damage a GPU or CPU unless you overvolt it, and even then it's very difficult. Hardware these days all have thermal limits and will shut down (as you know!) if they reach that point, which is well before any damage will be caused.
tl;dr 100% is 100%. If your cooling is bad, your system can throttle or shut down. If your system can't run 100% CPU and GPU without crashing, you have a problem with your hardware. Right, I was mentioning heat, the article went a bit more extreme mentioning damage. What we should see if something is running your system hot in which it cannot handle is artifacts and/or crashing, then a reboot. Right it can be anything that is running so intensely like frames or stress. But games can have things accidentally of that nature, which means systems that aren't as efficient at cooling start failing in one game where they don't in most others. Like Star Crafts frames. As you mention it could be stress testing as well, what if I wrote code that made the core calculate in a manner that acted like a stress test but wasn't trying to be? It could have the same overall affect, and thus bad code. Then for systems that aren't ready for that can fail, that is what I was always getting at. There have been reports of things like this over the years, frames being the majority.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2014
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Running CF 7950 @ 1440p on Ultra. Noticed high temps as well (not as crazy as OP's). Primary card hit 78 @ 100% load. Secondary hit 64 @ 100% load. Been awhile since I saws temps on the primary that high.. maybe Metro 2033? I also have 7950 CF and same resolution (1440p), all details maxed. Also seeing very high GPU temp, up to 76c-77c. The GPU usage is 99% / 65%. And yes, Metro and BF4 is basically where I see those temps. I use AFR for eocapp.exe otherwise the performance isn't smooth (choppy with either "default" or disabled" CF setting for the exe).
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jun 2014
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Right it can be anything that is running so intensely like frames or stress. But games can have things accidentally of that nature, which means systems that aren't as efficient at cooling start failing in one game where they don't in most others. Like Star Crafts frames. As you mention it could be stress testing as well, what if I wrote code that made the core calculate in a manner that acted like a stress test but wasn't trying to be? It could have the same overall affect, and thus bad code. Then for systems that aren't ready for that can fail, that is what I was always getting at. There have been reports of things like this over the years, frames being the majority. Again, you're just saying 'some games require 100% CPU or GPU to run'. Yes, that is true. And any system that is properly configured is able to run at 100% for any amount of time. If your system can't, the problem is your system. You can argue a particular game shouldn't take that much to run, but that has no relevance to the fact that a healthy system can sustain 100% usage on everything for any amount of time without overheating, or crashing, or giving an error.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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Overheating is not a problem of the game but solely of one's hardware/cooling . If your system overheats, just rethink your cooling solution...
That being said that game really stresses the hardware on a constant level, that's totally true. Perhaps it will be better with some additional optimization.
WOOS
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jun 2014
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That being said that game really stresses the hardware on a constant level, that's totally true. Yeah it does. I have a 4770k @ 4.2 and a 780 Ti with +220 core and I get 100% GPU usage at all times in game (1440p, max settings, etc). Only 20-30% CPU usage. BF4 doesn't even use that much GPU.
Last edited by Pestilence; 05/07/14 05:55 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Apr 2014
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Game lacks optimization still, I have a monster gaming rig and it works too much.
CPU stress mostly though, the GPU fan is pretty silent after recent patches.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jun 2014
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Maybe take out your crossfire card? You certainly don't need it to run this at max res on Ultra.
I run the following:
AMD 5970
i7 930@stock
12GB RAM
CPU temp 55'
GPU temp 63'
Nothing special, I just cleaned out my fans and re-applied the thermal paste lately.
I used to run 2x5970 but crossfire was more trouble than it was worth, I found, both in terms of drivers and heat.
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member
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member
Joined: Nov 2003
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I see 100% GPU usage (and temperatures in the 70-75 deg C range) for D:OS, but it's far from the only game showing such behaviour. For anyone seeing higher temperatures, I'd agree that system cooling needs to be looked at. The simplest fix (for desktops) would be to take the side cover off and point a desktop fan at the GPU - if this works, then install a couple more internal fans for GPU cooling (one on the side of the case, drawing cool air directly onto the GPU should help matters). Another possibility is too much (or too little thermal paste) on the GPU - to check this you would need to take the GPU out, remove its heatsink and re-apply thermal paste (the instructions here are comprehensive). Multiple graphics cards (Crossfire or SLI) can present a particular problem since the heat from the lower one may be picked up by the fans of the higher if you have a case that mounts the motherboard upside down. In that case, try moving the cards to different slots (if connectors allow) to increase the spacing between them, or add extra fans behind the cards to blow hot air out of the case more quickly.
Last edited by Stargazer; 05/07/14 06:23 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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Game lacks optimization still, I have a monster gaming rig and it works too much.
CPU stress mostly though, the GPU fan is pretty silent after recent patches. Have you tried deactivating affinity for cores 0 and 1 in the task manager? CPU should be stressed less then because of better multi-core usage.
WOOS
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2014
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Maybe take out your crossfire card? You certainly don't need it to run this at max res on Ultra.
I run the following:
AMD 5970
i7 930@stock
12GB RAM
CPU temp 55'
GPU temp 63'
Nothing special, I just cleaned out my fans and re-applied the thermal paste lately.
I used to run 2x5970 but crossfire was more trouble than it was worth, I found, both in terms of drivers and heat. Running on just one HD7950, in 1440p / ultra, is too slow unfortunately. With CF the game is super smooth, but also the GPUs get super hot.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2014
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I have the same problem.
Ive seen someone mention it and then checked my temps and its true.
The problem is not there due to bad cooling. Definitely.
First, because a lot of people are seeing it and experiencing it and they cant all have bad cooling at the same time. Second, because i know a lot about it and ive checked and upgraded my cooling - and still have the same effects when playing longer.
I do have an oldie, HD 4850 which is known to be a very hot card. Yet when its working at its defaults it is stable at its temps of somewhere between 60 to 75 C. (about 50C in winter times)
After i saw OS getting it to 110 C, i took it out, cleaned it and the whole case thoroughly, took off the GPU cooling and applied new coating of thermal paste. I even added one more case ventilator to blow out hot air and enabled the front one to bring more extra relatively cooler air inside.
That did not help at all. For OS.
Temps, as followed by "CPUID Hardware Monitor" get to 110 or 115-117 Celsius.
I am not sure how my card is surviving this exactly, but i guess i bought a quality version.
Right now, i have the game tabbed out, my characters standing in dr. Thelyrons office, while i browse the web and write here. The temp is at about 63-65 C.
Which means the GPU heavy tasks are most probably and expectedly related to combat, with all of those special effects, characters, enemies and all that stuff going on all at once.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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After i saw OS getting it to 110 C, i took it out, cleaned it and the whole case thoroughly, took off the GPU cooling and applied new coating of thermal paste. I even added one more case ventilator to blow out hot air and enabled the front one to bring more extra relatively cooler air inside.
That did not help at all. For OS.
Have you tried to manually increase the speed of your GPU fan? Maybe your tool is giving your wrong information? Would be worth a double check with for example MSI Afterburner/Rivatuner. There is also a free tool available (MSI Kombustor) that can be used to benchmark your GPU. It puts a 100% load on the GPU. If your card reaches more than 90-100 ｰC here as well, there is something severly wrong with your hardware/cooling. My Radeon HD7870 never gets hotter than 75 ｰC, no matter in which game, D:OS included... 
Last edited by LordCrash; 06/07/14 12:52 PM.
WOOS
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addict
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addict
Joined: Apr 2013
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I use a free one called ' GPU Temp'.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jun 2014
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There is also a free tool available (MSI Kombustor) that can be used to benchmark your GPU. It puts a 100% load on the GPU. If your card reaches more than 90-100 ｰC here as well, there is something severly wrong with your hardware/cooling. My Radeon HD7870 never gets hotter than 75 ｰC, no matter in which game, D:OS included... I've had weird results with Kombustor. It didn't put my 780 Ti into boost clocks, they'd only stay stock, so it was useless as a stress test. Heaven has always worked for me though. Temps, as followed by "CPUID Hardware Monitor" get to 110 or 115-117 Celsius. Google says your card's thermal limit is 120C (I have never read of a card with such a high HT), though those temps are not normal at all. Run Heaven (Google it) and watch usage/temps. You're going to see the same results if you run it for 5-10 mins. You should start shopping for a new GPU, cause that one is on it's way out.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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I run Heaven and my stock 760 is under max load and gets to 75 Celsius. This is designed to take your HW to the limit.
Running the game, in-out of combat, with spell effects on non-stop. 72 Celsius, 99% load. You can see D:OS takes your HW right to the limit like the bench Heaven does.
I do have my fan on variable speed based on GPU temp.
Seems normal.
I think what happens Pastilance mentions, some games tax the HW more and some HW is either aging, needs cleaned or just runs hot by design. If this game fails your HW it's ultimately on your HW because it should be able to take a 100% load. You may not like that because "all my other games run fine", but you would agree that your HW should be able to handle it's maximum load without failing, right? So additional cooling, under-clocking or new GPU is in order. Good or bad.
Last edited by Horrorscope; 06/07/14 03:28 PM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Dec 2013
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I run my 780 at around 50ｰC with Divinity. What you have to realize is that alot of the times your hardware will be pumping out crazy fps 120+ which in turn wil have your GPU work at 100% which heats it up alot (and most Cooling solutions are simply inadequate to handle that stress in the summer)
What you can try to get this problem under control is to use the Frame Rate Limit in the options. Set it to 60 and you should see a big reduction in GPU load. In addition you can set it even further down, going to 50 makes a big difference as well as going to 40.
For example my rig is going to 80ｰC if I run with 120fps (this is on a water cooled system).
If I go for 60 fps it will hover around 55-65ｰC (depends on room temperature)
50 fps will cut that to around 45-50ｰC (I do prefer to run low temps so I can run my pc in silent mode)
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2011
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^Good point and I missed reporting that. My 72-75 is without limiting frames. I normally play on 60 which brings my temp down. Now that doesn't necessarily help those well under 60, but it could. If you are having an issue with crashes due to heat, figure out what your frames are, then go into the settings and max the frames a bit lower than what you are getting, that should alleviate it some.
Allowing the game to run as fast as it can (for me):
72c
Locking at 60:
60c
Locking at 30:
55c
Locking at 20:(Which makes it really feel old-school)
53c
So controlling that slider can really assist those with heat issues. Heck, I may just drop it to 45, it will run a lot cooler and make the room around me cooler.
Last edited by Horrorscope; 06/07/14 04:38 PM.
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