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@Stargazer: Thanks for pointing to that precedent with Vernor vs Autodesk. That's one completely dumb decision there. And Supreme Court didn't accept the appeal as well for some reason.

Last edited by shmerl; 06/07/14 11:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by shmerl
...That's one completely dumb decision there...
Agreed - and the precedent it sets is quite scary given what some EULAs try to get away with. frown

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Originally Posted by shmerl
@Jito463: you are still buying files, especially when it comes to physical media. But they come with restrictions. It's not any different than when you buy physical books. You aren't buying licenses on books - that's nonsense. You are buying books, but you can't do just anything with them. For example you can't go making and selling copies and so on. Same thing with files. That's if we are talking about buying. Renting is a different case. One can rent books, but for digitial goods renting while used (for example Spotify and Netflix are renting services) is not really logical. (I can explain it in detail why renting for digital goods is really pointless if needed).

It's also getting interesting when it comes to the first sales doctrine which allows you to resell what you bought. It's clearly applicable to cases when you buy files with a physical media (like disks). But when you buy them digitally it's getting more moot. Can you resell those files? Does it make sense or not?

Originally Posted by Jito463
In other words, you cannot resell the product with Bethesda's permission.


That's exactly the example where EULA violates the law and can be perfectly ignored. No Bethesda can take away your first sale rights. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

What it can mean however that you can't duplicate and sell those copies (i.e. multiply the sales). That's for sure not legal.


You seem quite convinced and you seem to be from germany or austria. Which would make you wrong too, as you can make as many copies from those files as you seem to fit for the purpose of backup. This part is btw part of all software licencing in germany, simply because that is how copyright works there.

Which is as well the keyword in all law systems all over the world. Copyright. Software sales and re-sales are based on copyright and this makes the whole thing licence based. Similar for example to selling a book to a publisher. Similar as well to creating photos or art and selling them. You can sell just the physical thing and retain all other rights or you can sell quite a lot more parts copyright and related rights.

To get back to your own book example: Buying a physical copy of the book implies not only buying a piece of processed wood, it implies as well buying a usage licence for the book and even limited rights to quote and copy for private use. Again, at least in most countries I know, but copyright and Urheberrecht are stuff that is not the same everywhere.

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