Didnt i already mention strawman arguments and other assorted fallacies?
Which only makes it the more hilarious that you are using them over and over again.
First strawman argument:
assuming that hand-holding and stream-lining are necessarily bad, instead of objectively analyzing the issues.
Who exactly has done this and how do you know thats what that someone was thinking? The answer is - nobody. It never happened
Simple: "hand-holding" has consistently been used in this thread as a disparaging term to help build an argument (a fallacy in and of itself).
I would rather say that you dont understand the difference between term "hand holding" and the game giving the player character internally consistent and coherent information.
The difference between a mass market game leading players somewhere by the hand, directly - without ever bothering to provide any real valuable internally coherent information that could serve to alow player to find anything himself.
Various quest compasses, shining lights over characters, and other such brainless, mindless customers features - including designing the whole game in a way that prevents any possibility of player somehow not knowing where to go and what to do.
Such as various bethesda, blizzard and bioware games, are full of, for example.
BBB... hmm..
Anyway, making declaratory statements that you cannot explain or support with anything isnt a real argument, buddy.
The term hand-holding is commonly used to describe almost any game feature which isn't absurdly hardcore, and doesn't always relate to giving directions in a game. Quest text too descriptive? Hand-holding. Maps? Hand-holding. Free respawns? Hand-holding. The truth is, what one person deems to be hand-holding might seem hardcore to someone else.
Oh, and by your rationale, a spell that pointed a player to the next quest (I believe there is such a spell in Skyrim), is internally coherent and thus ceases to be hand-holding.
Second direct straawman argument:
the argument "they were aiming for an old school feel therefore no hand-holding!" is a poor one because that would only make sense if old games were perfect.
Nobody actually made that argument so... you are putting something you invented into others people mouths.
Double strawman since nobody thinks the old games were perfect.
Which does not mean that your mass market stremlining and hand holding should replace some of the old design values.
I never said anyone made that argument, so take your own advice and stop putting words in my mouth. It is a very common argument which I was stopping in its tracks.
I also never said that anyone claimed that old games were perfect. I said that the common argument which I alluded to would only make sense IF old games were perfect.
My god, man...
They were anything but, and some were purposely designed to be esoteric so as to artificially increase the length of a play-through (due to storage deficiencies; I'm sure some of you remember what it was like having to juggle several floppy disks).
That actually doesnt have anything to do with anything....
And it doesnt even make sense.
Juggling floppy disks does not increase the length of a gameplay since thats completely external to internal game play-through length.
In addition of having nothing to do with what we are discussing here at all.
You just found something archaic to use as another cheap, laughable strawman fallacy.
Oh my...
Let's say that a publisher deems 5 floppy disks to be the absolute maximum that they are willing to sell due to pricing, etc.. Assume that for game foobar, 2 hours worth of content fits in those 5 floppy disks. What did they do in those days? Make the game insanely difficult to make the game take much longer to complete it. Get it?
This is a very thin and cheap ad hominem, while taken altogether its just another distorted logical failure based on a fallacy... about an ancient feature directly related to hardware issues of the earliest computers and gaming consoles.
Not an ad hominem as I did not use it against any of your arguments. Ancient feature related to hardware issues? There are games being made today which feature no maps or have an option to disable said map (look up Legend of Grimrock).
Therefore i will conclude that you are a cheap moron, who is not actually capable of creating any real argument but instead relies on strawmans and ad hominems.
btw, calling you this is not an ad hominem because it is true.
Thinking something is true and it being actually true are two wholly different things. You provided no proof for your claim that I'm a "cheap moron".
You should atleast understand that ad hominems fallacies are based on intentional distortion of facts and usage of personal insults that have nothing to do with reality to distort the discussion in attempt to win it through other means then real facts.
Of course, if you were able to understand this then you wouldnt have written that opening constructed only of strawman arguments, ad hominems and incoherent logical fallacies.
Right back at you.
Please keep going. This is totally not going to end badly for you.
