Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General The Random Loot system - A honest feedback

First, let me premise that if someone at Larian may find the thread title a bit familiar, it's because I already started a discussion very similar on the Steam board /even if in that case it was almost instantly drowned by other threads).
Still, it's a topic I care about, so here we are...


The more I play around with this game, the more I convince myself this is going to be an instant classic.
The one, only, single feature I don't like to *any* degree is the randomized loot.

I really, really don't think it fits this kind of game.
Beside not liking it in general as a mechanic, not even in hack'n slash games, I think it's something that simply fails to reward a player in a commensurate manner in occasion of specific accomplishments.
Sure, finding an overpowered item randomly can be fun for a bit, especially in early game.
But with hand-placed loot for special items, you feel like you've earned it when you find something rare. The developers put it right there because they knew it'd be hard to get, so getting it is very satisfying.
Not to mention how with randomized loot you could keep getting shitty loot even from the most tightly guarded/hidden treasure, if you're unlucky.

Think about those artefacts in Baldur's Gate II and how lame it would be to replace them with randomized rewards that sometime may not even be worth the effort.

On a side note, it's also all sorts of annoying to reload a save game for whatever reason, repeat a battle/re-loot a container just to find entirely different stuff, not just because it's a bit immersion breaking, but also because it opens up the game to some silly exploits (i.e. if you're a OCD freak you can keep reloading before opening a chest until your luck strikes and you find something extremely valuable).

I know for a fact there will be people who disagree with me, but my opinion is:
dear Larian people, for future games/expansions you should definitely consider the idea to switch to properly designed/hand-placed loot for each area, leaving randomness just to the so-called "trash loot".

well I like the randomness of items, though yeah its tempting to reload. maybe items should be randomly generated as soon as you enter an area rather then when you open the container?

Well, I would still not be a fan, but it would surely be an improvement, yeah.
It would at least discourage exploiting compulsive reloads.

And just to be clear: I *don't* reload compulsively, but rationally I know I could and it can be tempting.

I personally would also much, much, much prefer fixed loot in both shops and the game world rather than random (and scaled... ugh) loot, and I know at least a couple other people have been vocal about this on the forums as well. I've also seen a lot of forum posts that have complained about issues (especially re: scaled loot in shops) that would be fixed by the proper non-random loot system you describe. Anyway, I agree with your conclusion:



But as you realize, it's too late to change this for D:OS. Also, I'm not sure whether Larian actually prefers randomized/scaled loot, or simply didn't have the resources to hand-place loot throughout the game world (which would be understandable). Either way, we can always hope for improvement with the next game...

I'm 100% in agreement with the OP. As a matter of fact it's not only the randomness of the loot that pisses me off: it's also the insane amount of magic/unique items that pollute any corner of the game. Finding a magic item every time you crush a couple of skeletons simply spoils the sense of achievement for finding something worthy in a place hard to reach, discourages the use of crafting skills and adds an unhealthy amount of busywork to the game.

Don't reload over and over. Problem solved.

If you are concerned about other people doing it, why? How does it affect you?

If it is really a problem for you, I am sure someone will mod in hand place loot at some point.

All they need to do is tweak that as they already have the feature implemented. Some containers no matter how many times you reload have an extremely low possibility (if they do at all) to result in anything but common items (ie ham, wheat, cups, etc...).

They can still keep their random loot style and just categorize the types of items that can be present in any given type of container.

I think they know that already though and the way that you see it now is as is intended. /shrug

Dear Tuco,

I think you're 100% wrong. I could expand on that, but there's no reason to because we're both giving our opinions with absolutely no evidence.

Signed,
An honest feedback provider.

Or they just didn't have time to hand-place loot in the world, considering the size of the game. Who knows... they ain't saying.

Well, considering this style of loot system is present in every game they have made (Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity, Divinity 2, and now Divinity:Original Sin), I would say the odds are not in your favor.

I don't mind the random loot, though obviously it isn't entirely random. Some chests almost guarantee legendary items, for example.

The cool thing about random loot is that every play-through will be different. I think I like that freshness over knowing that killing boss X will drop the "Sword of Sorrows" every time.

Reloading and whatever - no need to fix it. Let people play how they like.
Same for the leech/come-back-kid combo. Think it breaks the game? Don't use it!!

A few placed items might be nice, especially if backed by random loot. Eventually though, someone will get better random loot and criticism would ensue because of that. Totally dismissing random loot would be a poor idea.

Eh, still got mods.

You are being selfish and wanting the game to only cater to your form of experience. You didn't actually put any of the benefits of the random loot in: Which shows you are not aware of them.

Your point about 'artefacts' in BG2 not being here is fictional because there are in fact fixed items within the game. Both spellbooks and valuable gear items. It speaks to the fact you're either not paying attention or have barely played the game.

The good thing is you did mention the problem you have: "It fails to commensurately reward the player". You expect your games to reward you in a way that 'feels good'. In a way that is psychologically satisfying and generates a triggered dopamine response. You are compulsively searching for the reward, the incentive in order to play your games instead of actually experiencing the game as a holistic experience.

What the randomness of the loot does is take the focus -off- of the reward and -off- of the fixed aspect of each character being completely pre-planned and puts it to a more entropic, more naturalistic way of playing. Where your journey is simply a journey and the details are your own. You get that killer orange amulet from a specific challenging encounter and you'll remember that fondly. You'll also remember the time that a particular enemy dropped a bunch of useless things and have a conversation about that. What you won't be able to do is -know ahead of time- the outcome of your journey. You won't ever be able to predict it, you will always remain surprised, and each time you want to come back to the journey the details and events of your experience will be different.

And there's more. The variance in loot allows for fluctuations in power amongst the characters in your party. This incentivizes tactical diversity...the right kind of incentivization. Of course this really makes OCD players sad because they often want to use one character excessively and plan around a 'perfect stratagem' with little deviance.

You're right in one respect: This game fucks with OCD people heavily. It makes winning conversations virtually random. It encourages you to fail at things to uncover actual content. It very much incentivizes just -playing things through- INSTEAD of reloading. Why are you so obsessed with that particular instance of loot when there are so many other ways to accomplish your goals WITHIN the game.

Your whole argument has been repeated ad nauseam and every person that posts this garbage has the same problem: They don't have any concept of anyone but themselves. They want the game to be THEIR experience rather than the wholly beautiful emergent narrative game that exists. It's an unfortunate consequence of the last decade of terribly manipulative games you've played...and it's time you stop letting the psychological predations of manipulative game design inform your sensibilities.

I'd suggest you go play the original X-com: Ufo Defense as a jumping off point to understand the intricacies of emergent narrative. Then play a bit of Ultima 7 to understand the type of world building and specific details that are utilized in this game. You simply show a shallow, dopamine-high focused approach to game playing that will never reward you properly.

It's the journey not the reward.

That's completely mutual.


It's not just a case where you didn't solve the problem, you didn't even address it.


It mostly shows I don't recognize them as benefits, and I won't because they aren't.

Agree.
Randomized loot is good in a game with respawning enemies, such as the Diablo serie. Not good and totally unfair in a game with a fixed number of encounters.

I'm sorry but... What the hell are you talking about?
There are just a bunch of Unique items and most of them aren't even assured drop but they are still tied to random chances to obtain them.


Wow, that's... pretty much the opposite of the truth.
What I like about fixed loot is precisely that offers reliability and well designed and balanced items over compulsive rewarding at every step that trivializes the uniqueness of every encounter and treasure.


This is hilarious. You just mentioned two of the games I replayed the most over 30 years of gaming and you are using the patronizing tone of someone who want to teach me how they played.
You could namedrop even Jagged Alliance 2 as you were on the topic, for even more hilariousness.

Absolutely!

The problem you stated and the one I was commenting on was this:

So, basically you think all of Larians games are bad then?

Haaaaaai guys. 0/

Will just copy-paste my take on the randomized loot system in DOS:
The loot system is pretty boring. I don't even mean the randomized loot in general, but rather that you have little to no variation on what you can have on the items. A belt will always have the same modifiers and nothing unique - not even legendary ones. Would have loved to have some unique effects on legendary gear, other than just more stats or being able to cast flare... That is pretty meh. Immunity to stunned/poison etc is okay, but if it's the only modifier you can hope to see, it's not very exciting either.

Following that point, my fix would be to add more interesting affixes the gear can spawn with, and more affixes to certain slots in general.

For istance, from what I've seen there is not a single non-int requiring Sarong in the entire game. And those can only spawn with int and/or willpower and/or bodybuilding and/or initiative and/or resistances. NOTHING ELSE. Boring as hell. I had a level 9 legendary sarong that was entirely the same as the level 18 one I found later, with the exception to have 1 int more and a few % more. I don't find that is an interesting "progression".

In particular rings and amulet should have WAY, WAY, WAY more unique modifiers. Why can't they spawn with +2h modifier for instance? Rings with strength, amulets with constitution? The most interesting ring I've stumbled upon has "immunity to stun", which was awesome indeed, but that's all I've seen in over 80+ hours. Again, "cast flare / cure wounds / fortify" is pretty boring and weak.
Diablo III was justifiably criticized for its incredible dull (and under powered) legendary loot when it was released. Look at it now, unique effects on mass and interesting modifiers. This is the only reason Divinity loses a bit of its exploring appeal towards the later part of the game, as you get less interested in loot ("why bothers, it's the same anyway").