Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General The Random Loot system - A honest feedback

I suspect the chests are supposed to be a failsafe in case the act of beating the encounter yields nothing (or next to nothing).

Unfortunately the chests can often yield next to nothing as well.

The random loot system IMHO is probably the biggest and maybe the only failure of this game.

Most of the time the loot is so bad, you couldn't help it but go WTF? The range is way too wide, and enchancement is completely random. A chest that can either spawn multiple legendary items, or can also spawn a few worthless blue items instead. You could end up with 2 hand weapons that give +1 to 1H weapon and vice versa. When this happens, you couldn't help it but feel cheated, and want to reload.

IMHO this is laziness on developer's behalf, not to have an optimized / smart loot system. Instead, oh let's just randomize everything.

I also agree there are way too many chests in the game. More random loot, more save-and-load. Of course you don't have to play the load/save game and enjoy your +1hand staff with + dex.

Diablo uses a smart loot system; not this total random stuff.

Sadly the badly implemented loot system brings back memories of Divine Divinity where I got used to savescumming because there were only two rings and one pair of leggings with slots in the whole story... Fortunately merchants tended to refresh their items at every visit in that game, which helped with the rest...

It's a real shame as D:OS is otherwise a fantastic game. Beautiful graphics, terrific soundtrack, immersive and entertaining storyline, versatile and creative character concepts. (Which imho are the main reasons why one would decide to replay the game. Not the random loot.) I guess while other games have evolved since -- and we got used to some form of a smart loot system as Drachen mentioned previously -- the Divinity series is still stuck with completely randomly created and totally randomly placed junk you would sell immediately. I wholeheartedly agree with some points of criticism mentioned beforehand:

You'll simply feel cheated if you end up with a blue item worth 80 gold from a boss chest which you got some nice orange loot from last time, and of course this will encourage you start savescumming. I don't even think this loot needs to be completely fixed and manually placed. It might be enough to make smarter random loot tables with guaranteed quality loot for the more important fights.

The number of completely empty barrels and crates is outrageous. Instead of placing them there why not make sure that generally useless items like a rogue armor with +1 STR (but not DEX) don't get created at all? There's so much real trash in the game no character could ever profit from.

The crafting system is currently fun and interesting, yet there should be far more variety in it. Why can't crafters create bracers or helmets? Why can't they enhance necklaces and rings? Making characters with higher crafting skills be capable of adding more attributes to an item might be the answer. (In which case items should stop granting crafting bonuses. It's currently too easy to get to crafting 5 without too much investment.)

The reason why the current random loot system is dreadfully boring is the very low probability of getting an item that is actually useful to someone in your party. Sooner or later all you'd be interested in will be the value of the loot. (To savescum at merchants, obviously. -- Oh, no, never! -- Yep, merchants are a problem as well. At least they should sell all skillbooks. And more ingredients. And...)

I realize that some of these topics can be -- or were already -- addressed by modding and that some others might be impossible to change in this game. Yet I think this is a topic that should be considered by Larian at least for future games. Please change something that has never worked. There doesn't seem to be any shortage on creative ideas in your ranks otherwise.

And who told you players cannot craft helmets? Probably bracers too although i havent dabbled with crafting too much.

You sure can create and improve rings, and probably necklaces too.



There is nothing actually bad about the current system, it doenst need to be removed but tweaked. Adjusted. Thats all.


A very simple (relatively speaking ofc) solution is to create a few categories of items, then assign those categories to loot containers as the devs see fit. With addition of unique hand placed items where it would be expected. Or by just assigning "super awesome loot" category to those special creatures or containers.


Of course there should be empty barrels and crates. Of course you should not get items specifically suited for your party all the time.
What a nonsense to think otherwise.

The setting internal coherence and plausibility override simplistic casual player need to have every crate in the game filled with loot to satisfy his greed - while those same players complain how there is too much loot around.
Having every crate and barrel filled with stuff is a completely ludicrous idea that would ruin several other features of the game.


The Merchants should NOT sell everything possible.
That makes no sense at all.
If that was true then no one would need any item from the rest of the game.
They need some smaller tweaks but thats it.

If rarity of skills books are the problem then there should be more of those found through exploration and combat with more important enemies, as part of the loot.



There are simpler and much more effective solutions possible then just overblowing one feature without care how that affects the rest of the game.





- Higher crafting skill enabling players to add more attributes is a reasonable idea, i think something similar to that is already in the game, but not sure.

- Removing or seriously minimizing amounts of loot that give crafting bonuses. Having those appear only on bracers and helmets (if that is not already the case) would be a good thing too.

And how -- pray tell -- can a simple leather helmet or bracelet be crafted? How can you add attribute boni to rings?

Maintaining complex item categories and selecting random loot based on them is what smart loot tables do in a nutshell.

On the empty crates issue:
Apart from the fact that your comment on my thinking processes is uncalled for, I'd still say it's perfectly OK to have some empty crates and to have the odd sometimes empty crate. But not thousands of them in the game. This uses up valuable gaming time and provides no fun in return at all. This is why I call it a bad feature for my money.

I didn't say merchants should sell everything, either. But skillbooks belong to character creation, not equipment. At least they should provide an exception.

Any non-unique item with a crafting bonus would already be too much IF crafting was able to further improve on items. But at the moment it is not, so no real issue there.

Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome.

Oh...pray tell, aww, excuse me..

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=526585&nt=6&page=1

Separate categories for rings and amulets.

You can craft NINE different helmets.

Download the pdf and study it well. In detail. All combinations probably havent been discovered yet.




I never said anything about any complex item categories, or "maintenance". Try to read what you are replying to.



No they should not. There is plenty of ingredients sold already. Any more would devalue exploration and looting.


If you havent figured it out, your "fun" is not an overriding design parameter. Especially when it comes to such ideas that would negatively affect the whole game for everyone else.




A... what?


If you want warmer welcomes try not posting suggestions that are by large detrimental to the game main features because of your own subjective notions of "fun" self entitlement and consequences of your lack of knowledge about the game.


I am not the welcoming team and you will get the same reception as anyone else around here, including myself.

If you didn't receive a warm welcome for suggesting other people talk nonsensical crap instead of being open to different ideas, I feel sorry for you, Hiver. Besides, your link to Ivra's crafting guide only tells me that you actually haven't read it. Open it, and do so now, if you feel inclined to learn more about crafting. No, you cannot craft helmets. You do need helmets to create those nine different helmets. Period.

The rest of your post is really just firmly denying my arguments without presenting any counter arguments yourself. I suggest you go back to the uni and learn the basics of debating.

I dont demand any kind of "warm welcome" or go around accusing people of not giving it to me if and when i make suggestions that are silly or not applicable.

I dont feel the need to create such false cheap emotional blackmail to discuss anything.


You dont need a helmet to create a pumpkin helmet and a bucket helmet, if you really want to split hairs. But im really surprised you would even dare to keep talking about it while so blatantly just skipping over the rest of your demands.

Guess thats what they teach you at uni about debating.


- also, the game loot system provides more then enough of ordinary helmets and bracers to tinker with so there is practically no need to be able to craft them, and if there is - easy to add a few.



Of you go. Dont forget the pdf about crafting on your way out.
Next time if you have a problem, first check the Help/Tips and Tricks part of the forum where good people invested a lot of time and effort to create such lists and helping advices for you.

I certainly do think there are plenty of fantastic and creative brains at work here among the forumers. This is the reason why I registered in the fist place. You, Mr. Winter, sadly don't seem to be one of them.

Of course, sinking yourself to personal insults.
Uni debating techniques. Your teachers would be so proud of you now.

Not to mention its really visible whose brain is of higher class around here.



The nickname is from A Hat full of Sky. Not French language.
off you go...

This is getting off topic, and pointless to continue.

Damn, is this topic still going?

Anyway, the answer I gave half-a-year ago (it's been that long since I was here?) still stands, removing specific bonusses will harm the "you can build your char anyway you want"... you might hate INT on your weapon, for someone else that's beneficial to their warrior mage and removing it only harms the game as result.

The only thing I would agree with is no 2-hand on single weapons or 1-hand on 2-hand weapons, since it's impossible to utilize these bonusses. For the rest, nothing is 'useless'...

I think, random loot is fine. If you know what to find at a particular location, it hurts replayability. But one thing comes to my mind. If loot is in hard to reach locations, it should be worth the effort and not another piece of leather armor for the uptenth time.

I was wondering if I should start a thread, but appart from some derailing, i think this is the same topic.

I don't know if there are some limitations to this, but I'm level 10 now, and i must say, with all the objects i found, i'm pretty depressed by the lack of diversity of the objects.

I know talents are not supposed to be "found" on an item, i get that, but there is as of today in the game 8 skills group, 6 attributes and 20 abilities. In all the items i found, i rarely found items that actually give attributes point (or if so, always the same points on the same piece of equipement), and found items only giving points in about 1/3 of the total abilities (and again, a lot of times, i would get the same rings that pumps up the same ability, i didn't found anything for crafting for example (i'm guessing it does not exist), and like 2 or 3 items for weapons abilities on the hundreds and hundreds of items i found, never to be found on a weapon for example or on headgear, never found a piece of equipement with SPD and INT for example, except maybe legendary and even so...

Why is that so?
Am i the only one founding that the items are way too similar and not fun?

While it is not terrible it is exactly what it says, random and somewhat or mostly frustrating, it can be good sometimes.

Yes there should be empty crates and barrels.

Bosses should always have at least 1 random (and or placed non random) legendary item.

Being able to pay to combine items would be useful and pleasant.

Finding stuff on the ground can be a pain....why doesnt my ALT key highlight items on the ground?
is there a fix? Hasnt seemed to work since the latest patch.

Items that have bonuses which offer no valid benefit ( the infamous +1 to 2handed on a dagger or +1 to 1 handed on a 2 handed sword is absolutely a hideous preventable blunder) must go.

Crossbows should have lower Dex requirement and a higher action point cost to use, crossbows firing as fast as a bow is laughable. Yes thats a comment on items/gear, but crossbows are just immediately sold as useless loot anyway.

I also intensely dislike finding lots of weapons at the merchants I dont use, have any skill points in or even like my characters to use. 4 axes but no swords? 2 crossbows but no bows.

I have fewer complaints about skillbooks except the unique ones should not be unique, maybe rare and expensive but not unique.

My point being that it's not THAT random. I think some attributes / abilities are not in the "roll" on the RNG, at least not for all piece of equipment, this gives a impression of seeing again and again the exact same piece of equipment, which, for a game this good is quite a pity.

If you look at other CRPGs it becomes quite apparent how disappointing the loot system really is. Even more so because DOS is fantastic in other departments. Some games do not allow you to craft, but they tend to have lots of placed items. And I'm talking about useful and powerful placed items (e.g. Baldur's Gate or IWD series). In other games crafting itself is strong enough so that you don't need to worry about random loot (e.g. Elder Scroll series).

I'm not talking about not having random loot at all or not making it difficult to craft great items. But finding loot should fill you with excitement and not lethargy (hey, another shield with +2 Intelligence and +1 Two-handed, awesome).

As I said, randon loot is fine by me with some caveats.

The lucky finds should be more rewarding than just some leather cap or something along these lines.

Last 10 rings, no lie :

2 with telekinesis, 8 with magic resistances...