Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Seller of Secrets change

Foreword: this post is not a whine, but just a way to express my frustation.

I don't understand why Larian has removed the regeneration of skill/attribute books at the Seller of Secrets.
For me, this feature was a great way of adding replay value to the game, where one could try to reach this seller as soon as possible in order to maximize the benefits.

On one hand, I can see why some players wanted this feature to be removed, claiming this feature was somewhat too powerfull in easy mode with four characters. However, nothing forced them to buy these books. Nothing.
On the other hand, by removing this feature, Larian has just removed one of the reason some players could play the game again, trying to min-max their experience.
Not to mention that with the current Lone Wolf talent design which doesn't give additional attribute points (?!), it is very hard to make hybrid Lone Wolf characters.

This change has just made the game weaker in my opinion.

Good balancing never makes a game weaker. And no, the problem that the game becomes easier is not an issue with "easy mode", it's the same on normal and hard difficulty.

It's funny that you defend a glitch which was never meant to appear in the game. If you want to just maximize your build feel free to use a cheat trainer. There is already at least one available. To say it in your own words: you're not forced to use it but you can.

But honestly, I don't see your point why the removal of the endless books the experience should suffer. Don't you want a balanced experience???

Lone Wolf was never meant as an "easy option" but as an option for experienced players. But again, feel free to use a cheat trainer if you think you're too weak...

Lowering replay value makes a game weaker.
That's my point in case you didn't get it.
It seems you are not a min-maxer and as such you don't understand the need of having more options as opposed to less.

No.

It was just bad gameplay trying to get as little XP and skip parts of the game just to get a overpowered boost that wasn't even intended to be used that way.

I'm all for min-maxing but people only find out about these books when it's already too late forcing those min-maxers to either restart or play with the consequences (any real min-maxer can't choose the latter)

They should however had made it 2 or 4 books. So both characters in coop can get one, or you can still choose to create a more hybrid character that uses all 2/4 books.

There's plenty of replayability in this game and it's already easy enough once you min-max.
The book change was a good move.

i dont see why it was removed either. those books had nothing to do with how characters become ridiculously powerful. even if you have high attributes and many skills you are still locked in by the AP system limiting what you can do each round.

when things like invisibility and 100% resistances exist it seems really silly to go after something that allowed for more in-depth character design.




anyhow, the thing that kills replayability to me is the loot system. as long as the best loot in the game is located in specific chests requiring loading and reloading dozens of times in a row to get a decent item i wont have much drive to play this game for long.

You can file this one under "changes which were listed in the patch notes but not actually implemented when you play the game."

Because I patched, and I'm still able to powergame the hell out of this.

That said, I'm not going to be sad when the change is actually applied. Getting books from level 3 onward (yes, it's possible) is overpowered as hell.

how was it overpowered?

because a couple extra stat points turned you into superman?

or because you could actually put trade skills on a character instead of needing a robot in sanctuary?

lol, people...

overpowered is having 100% or more resists where enemies cannot hurt you, or turning invis/sneak to end every turn so enemies dont even fight back. That is the real definition of overpowered.

all these books did was allow you to play the game without exploiting other things, like sanctuary robot henchmen.


that should be disallowed as well. the ability to use henchmen in sanctuary as crafters.

force people to dump points into blacksmith and crafting to get those bonuses. its overpowered to exploit mechanics like that!

This FIX doesn't lower the replay value. It increases the overall value of the game as a consistent experience. That has nothing to do with min-max strategies since that glitch shouldn't be in the game from the very beginning. Basic balance is crucial for a game and min-max strategies can only be build based on that basic balance. Without basic balance a game like D:OS is pointless.

A cheat trainer gives you all the "options" (aka cheats) you want.


I agree with all of these points. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't fix other glitches or balancing issues. One fix at the time...

Other fixes that should follow:

1) Essence coating of armour should be limited to +5% per esseence. Together with the already reduced effect of "weather of storms" this shouldn't make it so easy to get 100% resistancies against every element. Essences shouldn't be available at shops, only by enemy drops.
2) Henchmen shouldn't have points in crafting/blacksmithing/leadership by default. Players should be motivated to invest points in these abilites (trade-off).
3) There should be a "decloak invisibile targets" spell which allows enemy casters/priests to locate and attack chars in invisible/sneak mode in turn-based combat.

@LordCrash: I am forced to officially ask you to quit implying I am cheater or willing to be. I find this offending and I will have to report you otherwise. For you information, I am a min-maxer and as such, D:OS is obvioulsy not a game which challenges my skills in any way. I just want the game keeps as much value as it can. And diminishing options is a big move in the bad direction when it comes to RPG where options are king.

But you are. And even worse, a hypocrite.

Trying to get the most out of a game simply by using mechanics that are in the game is not cheating.

You might not agree on certain methods how other people play but to call them a cheater not only shows your own ignorance regarding the subject, it also uncovers a dominant layer where you somehow want to influence someone else's single player game. Or perhaps you're angry others get to play with toys that you can't get?
Whatever it is, it's petty behavior.

At best you can call getting the books that early an exploit perhaps, even though I don't think that label officially applies in this case.

Either way, the game developers deemed getting that many books not part of the standard game experience anymore. To have a discussion on whether or not it should have been removed is completely normal though. Accusations of cheating should have no place in such topic.

You defend a glitch. But you don't want to be caller someone who likes cheating. That just doesn't make sense.

And again, we don't talk about (gameplay) options here. We talk about a glitch, a bug, something that wasn't intended to be there in the first place. This was never meant as a mechanic to improve the gameplay. It was a FAILURE/GLITCH. It's really not that hard to understand that imo...


The game has gained value by fixing this glitch tbh...

Of course. But we're not talking about mechanics, but about glitch. Someone used glitch, ok, he could think that this was intended by the devs. But when devs fixed that glitch, and someone want it back claiming that "ok, it can make you overpowered, but some people like it", im pretty sure we can call him cheater.

It's like saying that the devs shouldn't fix the glitch/bug which enabled you to teleport everywhere without AP costs "because it already was in the game"...

Sorry, no, just no.

I can still buy "Ancient tome of Body Mastery" and "Compendium of Mortal Techniques" from the seller of secrets. I already have four unused copys of each one. When was this fixed?

I was actually wondering why the seller of secrets is always selling them, because they are quite powerful and should be extremely rare.

I can understand removing the respawn since, even if it HAD been intended, the current implementation results in lopsided outcomes depending on how quickly the player gets to her.

Respawning those books based on some other, fixed factor - like every certain number of star stones discovered - would avoid that. (No matter when you first make her available, she'll only offer N copies over the course of the game.)

If they're meant to be a one-time purchase though, I do feel that it would be more appropriate to have one for each PC, or perhaps a single book that applies the benefit to both when read.

Why? An RPG is about though choices. It's up to you to decide whom of your chars should benefit from reading the book. The same mechanisms were already present in the old Infinity engine games for a reason. These books are not about stats spamming. Actually I think the teller of secrets should sell these books at all. You should be able to find them in the world though but they should be extremely rare.

If you find an unique item you only get it once. Only one character can use it. That's how the system works. Tough choices and trade-offs.


@dlux
May people have reported that. Either the glitch isn't fixed at all yet or it only works with a new game atm.

I have a new game, created after patch 1.081, and can confirm she is still spawning new books on lvl up.

Knowing that it's a bug, I guess I can resist the temptation...

*puts on someone others helmet*
But if you in your single player game could use it you have an advantage over me in my single player game! That is not fair! I call for balance and that the books must be removed from the game! You all is cheaters and liars if you want the books, or use them, or know where they spawn!

Accessing Teller of Secrets at level 3 is a symptom of a larger problem. The larger problem is invisibility allowing you to go anywhere and do anything.