Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General DEV REQUEST: Healing while in town

Towns are not necessarily safe/friendly places.




Zombie trait + Deadly Spores. Just don't cast it near open flame.

Hhahaha. Four talents and disabling real healing spells is not an opportunity cost most people would be willing to take :P

Casting healing spells after combat is pointless and annoying.
There is no skill involved, it does not add to the experience, its just an annoyance u have to do and a waste of time.
Oldschool? Yes maybe, but not everything oldschool is good and worth keeping around.

It makes the verisimilitude of the setting stronger, coherence and internal logic of the game world greater and more divested from the players like you.

You have no idea what old school means and just throwing declaratory statements around means nothing.

Your personal subjective opinions are not truths of the universe and reality.

Try to act and talk/write like a grown up please, since you seem to know "oldschool" you should be old enough, aren't you?
No need to get all butthurt if someone disagrees with your opinion.
No need to attack the person or their knowledge of terms, that is usually a sign that you are out of loical arguments and makes you look childish.


No one is throwing around "declaratory statements", ppl are just voicing their opinions.
"Oldschool" games had no universal ruleset all games subscribed to.
Each game did it differently, some had more features, some had less. Some had more convenience, some had less.
Divinity decided to use some of these features and not others.
For example, fast travel was not a common feature, at least not in the divinity way. If it had, you usually could be attacked during that "fast travel" and u usually healed up.

Please stop that patronizing behavior. Its is you throwing around these statements.

The first three sentences in your reply are declaratory statements, again, in which you are trying to forcefully establish a specific meaning - without any proof or argument or real connection to anything i said.

A really cheap logic fallacy of trying to strawman in an ad hominem about how someone else is childish.

You are throwing around declaratory statements, not some hypothetical people. I was talking directly to you.

If Oldschool had no universal ruleset, and had different levels of convenience as they of course did, then you should not make arguments that are negative towards some distorted notion of "old school", as if that twisted meaning has any connection to your declaratory statements based purely on subjective dislike of some features.



Declaratory statement, completely unsupported by anything. You just state it is so. Obviously to you, personally, based on subjective reaction.

It isnt such to me and several other players.


Again, completely personal subjective opinion presented as holy truth - i.e. declaratory statement not supported by anything real.

Saying that there is no skill involved is especially pointless and vapid, since it doesnt make any sense - since you dont need any skill to use healing spells whenever you use them in the game. You click an icon and then click on a character.

None of these has anything to do with any kind of "Oldschool".
Especially if you presume some specific features in old school games were there just to be old school, without any other reason.

These features actually have a specific effect in the game, as i explained. And you can now go and read my reply again without so pathetically grasping for childish ad hominems.

Various specific features in Oldschool games also had their specific roles, uses and effects on the whole.

btw, at the time those games were not called Old school games.

No, its true. Larian chooose, for some reason, probably involving 'don't care lol/D2/WoW did it like this' to make spells use a cooldown instead of memorization slots (on town only would be good, but this is obviously impossible with the current balancing). Failing that, they might have had the decency of not putting ANY spell that heals to make resource management come into play. But of course they didn't so there is no reason to use anything except a spell out of combat (where you use potions if you want).

Remove the cooldown mechanic, create some dungeons that trap you until complete and this could have been a reliably challenging game that uses more than 3-4 abilities on all fights, like knights of the chalice... well the pyramids sort of ruin that, but you could disable them at points, whatever.

Its a bit frustating that this game is TB while pillars of eternity is RTwP and has similar mechanics. Ce la vie.

For "automatically heal while in town" to work, "town" would have to be a distinct region (it isn't in DOS) and a safe zone (it isn't in DOS). That's why it isn't there.

It has already been said that you can sleep in beds.

I find that much more atmospheric, game world enhancing and nice then any kind of mass market health regen, regardless of what someone would consider "easier" for them personally.

I actually want my mage to cast his spell on my guys to heal. In and out of combat.

Sure, the survival aspect of the game could have been made stronger, theoretically, but this is a Divinity game. Lets be real about such expectations and desires.

A kind of complete conversion mod for the game could make that aspect stronger, but it isnt sensible to expect that from the official main campaign.

Hiver stop being arrogant for a second.

You claim you want arguments supporting ones claims? Yet you do the *exact same thing*
You blame people for throwing around statements without anything behind it? Yet you do the *exact same thing*
You blame people for putting their subjective opinion above all else as in being not the truth of the universe and reality(dude loled at this one, seriuosly?) yet you do the *exact same thing*
You use "you have no idea what oldschool means". Really? You do?
How do i not know and you do? Can you prove that? Can you argue that? Can you prove you do? Reminds you of a declaratory statement? Hm?
Basically what you are implying with this is "i am right because i know more and older games than you" which you can not possible know. Speaking about childish ad hominis .. right?
Are you doing that on purpose or are you truly not seeing that you are doing the exact thing you blame me doing?

Btw you are not explaining *anything* you are just putting forth a subjective view and a declaratory statement which by your own definition is not the truth of the universe and is completely unsupported by anything and presented by you as the holy truth.

Why am i saying there is no skill involved outside of battle? Why am i saying its pointless and annoying. Thats pretty simply, no idea why you choose to play dumb here. In battle you have some kind of resource management, in this case APs, you have to choose weather to use your APs to do damage, move out of stuff, or heal or a combination of those. Each action has consequences, costs you resources, has its rewards and disadvantages and limits the options you have lft.
Outside of battle you do not have to wage anything against anything you simply press the button and wait till cds runs out to heal the next party member. or you port to a bed or whatever. There is no skill involved, just time, its just waiting till its over. And that is boring and becomes annoying.
Sure some ppl like that, sure np, i have no problem with that, but you should not become hostile if ppl do not like it and claim they don't know what they are speaking about. Thats bad, childish behavior. Does not help to mask your rudeness behind those big words you like throwing around.

I hope i made that clear for you. Pointless was the wrong word to use tho, i have to admit.

I have to agree with others tho, a Trait would be awesome for that and could be a good middleground.

You cant really just declare someones behavior as childish, or arrogant without actually providing anything as a sort of proof about it - when replying to several sentences i posted that actually explain why this feature has a value for internal coherence of the game world, setting and atmosphere. Or general verisimilitude of the game.

Nor can you just claim i am somehow doing what you are actually repeatedly doing, several times over already.

Since you are not capable of objectively considering things, lets take a repeated review:

You start by claiming:



These are all declaratory statements without anything to support them. They express your personal subjective feeling and dont provide anything else.

My reply is this:



to which you reply with:



A pile of garbage sentences. Implied invented ad hominem of my supposed childishness, me somehow not being "able to talk like a grownup", being somehow "butthurt because someone disagreed with my opinion" - and then you grasping for victim position by accusing me of attacking you personally - even though i just stated the obvious about your opening empty declaratory statements.

All in all, a very clear case of psychological projection where you are behaving "childishly" and resort to personal insults and attacks because someone disagrees with your empty, unsupported opinion, instead of providing a single supporting argument for your declaratory statements.

Then you grasp for some kind of call for popularity fallacy by pretending we are talking about some "people", instead of specifically about you and your declaratory statements.


adhominem.


More empty declaratory statements. Its actually nothing to lol about.


No, thats a strawman.
It means you are directly and obviously inventing what i am presumably "implying" and "thinking" and putting those words in my mouth.

FYI, i didnt have a single thought of that kind.



If it is simply then you could have explained it instead of throwing tantrums and devolving into cascade of fallacies.
Me not being telepathic and just automatically figuring what you mean and why you think something is not really "playing dumb". The opposite is true.




Thats more like it, but your conclusion is your personal subjective reaction to it.

Of course you can have such personal opinion about this. I dont mind that and we can agree to disagree about that or anything else.

But, in truth, personal opinions like this cannot be presented as ultimate truths about the matter. Thats what i am objecting to.

I am of the opinion that internal consistency and verisimilitude of the game world, its setting and lore and atmosphere is more important then some minimal personal "annoyance" of players like you.

As for question of skill as you described it (and thats an argument i see repeated fairly often, from those that want to force in their convenience over everything) - one cannot really expect same kinds of consideration to be important about using healing spells right in the middle of combat or outside of it.

Its a false dichotomy to present it like that.

Not that using heals in combat actually requires any specific "skill" from you.

Additionally, - How personally annoying it is to someone to use healing spells, or other items and features outside of combat - is a personal matter, or a problem - that completely disregards game internal consistency and atmosphere. For purely selfish and drastically overblown reasons.

Which is a very big and familiar symptom of mass market publisher driven games of the last decade of decline and one of the biggest reasons for loss of actual quality across the board for any games, especially cRPGs.

Its the design for the lowest common denominators.

I might agree if the issue is something really, really annoying, something illogical and alien to the game world gestalt - like "respecing" or several other such mass market features that are in the game already... but,

All you have to do is click once on a spell and heal a party member with your dedicated healer (or anyone who has any of those spells), maybe eat a piece of food or go and rest in a bed for a few seconds.

I thought "Healing Rain" was getting everyone to 150% Fire Resistance and casting Explode. Although there's considerably more burning than most rain.

Holly shit you are doing it again dude.
I wen through your posts to see were your behaviour comes from.
You seem to get in those kinds of fights quiet often on there forums. Ever thought why thats the case?
Your favorite words seem to be declaratory statements and strawman. Everytime someone has an opinion that goes against your view of what a rpg, or this rpg wshould look like you try to put him/her down by throwing around words you learned in highschool debate club, not realizing, (see your last post for prove) that you are doing the same thing.
Your post history proves that beyond any doubt.
You seem to be very pationate about the game, thats cool, you also seem to be very passionate against mass market rpg market, thats cool too, where it stops being cool is that you think you you are above the other player that are not against that mass market as you see it. That is clearly visible by the language you use, for example when you use phrases like "players like you" which you did more than once in you post history. I know you will falsely call adhominem again, but really sheds light on your behaviour.

Do you think by you quoting my sentences and replying to it that is proof? and me not quoting you and replying to your whole text that is not? Seriously?
You are throwing around declaratory statements around in your whole text, just reread what you have written that is way i am saying you are doing the exact same thing. And yes i can say it, just reread what you have written. Ar you *seriously* not getting this at all*
See what you wrote:

"It makes the verisimilitude of the setting stronger, coherence and internal logic of the game world greater and more divested from the players like you."

Its an example, its a statement without any proof or argument behind it, its a subjective view without proof and you are trying to put yourself above "players like me" with your last words. And no, thats not a strawman, that is what your words are saying. Strawman also does *not* mean what you think it means, at least most of the time you throw it around.
Thats why i am saying you are doing the exact same thing, *because you are*.
You are repeating "players like you" again in your post, setting yourself apart and above me again. That is not neutral language its arrogant language, hence me calling you arrogant.

Another statement of yours:

"All in all, a very clear case of psychological projection where you are behaving "childishly" and resort to personal insults and attacks because someone disagrees with your empty, unsupported opinion, instead of providing a single supporting argument for your declaratory statements."

Dont you see the irony in it? Your statement is the exact thing you are accusing me of. Seriously dude? At this point i am about to congratulate you to a very well done trolling. If i were you i would call adhominem on that statement aswell.

And btw calling someone to stop arrogant behavior is not adhominem. Its calling someone out for being arrogant because conversation is tiresome with such a person. I am not trying to invalidate your arguments with it, i simply ask you to stop behaving in a certain way. Again inproper use of the word.

Anyhow, i am not going to reply to your childish attacks anymore, its pointless, you basically doing what you are accusing me of yourself all the time and state that i can not say it, for some reason only you know. Thats like someone denying the sky is blue. Pointless.
Maybe you don't mean to come off that hostile and arrogant, i don't know.

Back to topic.

While i agree, its a subjective PoV you have to accept that your view on that is subjective aswell and not the ultimate truth either. Forums are there to express one views and discuss is, for players like you and players like me and players like the rest of people.

My argument from earlier still stand, despite you not accepting or countering it.
Yes you are right, you can not expect to have the same considerations inside and outside of combat.
That is exactly my point. You don't have considerations at all outside of combat, you just do it and it costs time. And you have to do it after (almost) every battle, thats why i call it pointless.
It does not feel like i accomplish anything, it feels, to me, like a combersome task i have to repeat over and over again.
It is not a false anything presented, its an explanation why its a poor gameplay feature.



That it adds to the world or is consistent with the universe etc yada yada yada is a personal view and not the ultimate truth. One could always say, the comfort of a town lets you regenerate, or source hunters have the ability to regain HPs out of combat due to their training, or the are so experienced in battling evil that they are infused with life after being victorious. That would be consistent with the game world, would add to the atmosphere, would add to the feeling of being a mighty band of warriors, at least to some people. And would eliminate an annoyance without breaking the internal rules or logic of the game. If there was a Talent/Trait whatever for it, it would even add to the character progression, since you have to actively make a choice to have that talent and not have another.

Its is not just clicking once, you have to click a few times, for every member. And then wait on the cooldown to heal again. Its just waiting, its not gameplay.


What you neglect to say, in your rant against modern rpgs (which i can understand in parts) is, that due to changes like that, more and more people play those fantastic games nowadays then have back then. They are accessible to people who have never thought of playing rpgs before.
And that is not a bad thing, in my book atleast. It may suck for elitist rpg players who think their rpgs have to be their way and no other, but for the vast majority of people thats a good thing. If we all deny progress, we would still live in caves and hunt our food ourselves, since you know, supermarkets are convenient.
Why not be happy that more people are able to have fun with the games we love? My butt atleast does not hurt due to that.


Edit:
Forgot to say, how is respecing not coherent with the game world?
If there is a demon who, with magic, can make you better at certain areas, how does that not fit in a magical universe?

Just ignore him. You obviously disagree with him, and he has baited you into spending a great deal of time replying to him and investigating his previous posts. Someone else posted something absolutely hilarious in another thread. I will repost it here for humor:

Haha, thanks, that made me laugh

What am i doing again?

Explaining things to you while youre incapable to say anything but splurge various empty declaratory statements including repeated ad hominems and strawman arguments?

There is no fights, just a discussion in which you fail to support your statements with anything and are constantly flipping back to fallacies instead.

You went through my posts? So... what? Do you think that "going through my posts" somehow gives you the right to proclaim that im just fighting with "people"?



My favorite...? When you make declaratory statements and strawman arguments - what am i supposed to call those? Pretty clouds and unicorns?

Its not my problem there is about half dozen of idiots like you around who aren't capable of saying or writing anything but.

Even when clearly and directly asked to do so.


Thats another pathetic ad hominem.

And pathetic insane attempt to claim something, thinking it is then true.


Empty declaratory statement that only shows how delusional you are.


How do you know what i think? Is it "obvious" to you? Telepathically?

btw, this doesnt have anything to do with "passion about one thing or the other" - it has to do with your empty declaratory statements and repeated fallacies.

You might want to stop making fallacious declaratory statement about what i am thinking or feeling too. It makes you look like psychologically deranged person.

In addition to the rest.



Players like you means just players like you. It doesnt mean i think i am "above other players" which is just a nonsense your butthurt brain invents - because thats some kind of infinite loop it runs in, a limited range you cant exceed.



No, just replying to something doesnt mean much. What the reply consists of does.

My replies were and are explanations, yours are deranged simpleton ad hominems, strawman arguments and empty declaratory statements.

Plus these paranoid statements about what i am thinking...



Thats an explanation, not a declaratory statement, its just that you lack cognitive abilities to understand it.

You see, there is no notion of people or creatures just healing by themselves in this specific game world - setting.

There are items that do that and there is magic that does that.

So anything that works like that strengthens the internal consistency of the game world, while if any sort of health regen would be forced in - it would detract from it and be completely alien in this game and its internal logic - for your personal convenience.

This feature also plays a important role in some parts of the story, like when you get rot disease. If characters would heal by themselves then Rot disease would have no point existing at all.

If you would want that only player character heal while no others could it would be even worse.



I didnt say that was a strawman argument at all.

This was:




That statement is actually correct and true since that is all you have managed to say. Your very words prove that so there is no need for me to explain that further.

I quoted your words as im doing right now. You prove it yourself. Repeatedly.

You are pathetically attempting some sort of reverse psychology schtick but im not sure if you even can understand what you are doing.



You ask me to "stop behaving in a certain way" and that "way" is what you say it is - because you just feel like it?

Because you just declare it such?

Purely rhetorically... are you even sane?



And you repeat that "childish" schitck as if its a broken records pinning in your head.

Its not surprising that you see this as "hostile and arrogant etc" but thats your personal opinion based on wrong, fallacious motivations of repeated attempts to weasel out of the discussion by trying to attack my "personality" or my "motives" or "thinking" - none of which you have any knowledge about.

So, you basically just repeat your small little loop of nonsense declaratory statements and personal attacks.

After i pointed out that you are doing that.



- back to just repeating what you already said. Because repeating things, hoping it will work is a sign of intelligence.


No, there is no equality between me and you in any sense.

Yours is the subjective view, mine considers the game internal coherence and game world logic first.



Sure, but empty declaratory statements, ad hominems, personal attacks and other assorted fallacies are worthless.

One should be able to explain his opinions instead of just stating them and expecting that has any actual value.


You didnt make any arguments, Just spouted more empty, unsupported nonsense. You cant just say that your argument "still stands" because thats just an empty declaratory statement that makes it clear you are not capable of understanding reality.



What you call something is irrelevant.
Its your personal subjective reaction. >your own problem.

Thats the point.

It doesnt cost time, you dont have to do it after every battle unless you play badly and healing your characters so they are ready for the next fight is not pointless.

Plus it reinforces the internal coherence of the setting and it is directly used as a feature in parts of the story - as i explained already.



Its just a statement about how it makes you feel.







One? Who?

You?

Any random player?

That feature does not exist in the game. Read what i explained about it above - again. So i dont have to repeat myself - again.



It would only be a personal bullshit excuse without any relevance or connection to the game as it is.

You are free to fantasize whatever you wish but that doesnt make it a part of the game. In reality.



It would eh? Because you declared it?

:lol:




No, you click once, cast the spell, maybe eat something and thats it. In rare cases when your character is hurt a lot you may cast the healing spell twice. Big deal. while waiting for cooldown to expire you move or do something else. Which you can, because you are not in combat anymore so you do other things.

You will "wait" not doing anything only if you are completely stupid.

btw ...Healing is not gameplay... ?
Non combat time in the game is not gameplay, eh?
Or is it that whatever you drones dont like personally is not gameplay?



Fantastic games? You are all welcome to them. Just go back to bethpizdenimax, EAaware and other such lowest common denominator products companies and play those games... oh right, you cant because you played all of them once, eh?

How about not trying to distort this one into the same crap food made specifically for you in a shopping factory?



Right, right... as opposed to you drones demanding that all rpgs become mass market turds that you like, that heal characters instead of you, that point you where to go and what to do, that dont "close any content" from you, that make your egoes feel and think instead of you. While they rot what little brain and common sense you had.

Have a happy cancer in your supermarket.


Obviously.



Because whatever laughable idea of such bad excuses that comes out of your head has nothing to do with internal world logic of this game.

Because that feature exists only for you, not for anyone else in the game world. Because it is added to the game for your convenience only - so you wouldnt need to maybe play it a few times.

Because saying "magical universe so anything goes" is the ultimate retardation and nonsense and another proof you are not capable of understanding simplest logic.

Only somewhat fortunately, Larian studios are better then what youre use to so they didnt make it that easy or simple.

If you really want to know.

Hahah your butt seems more hurt more than after a competitive chili con carne eating competition. Apply some lotion my friend.
I have not seen someone so butthurt in a loooong looooong time. Wishing me cacner? Priceless.
Funniest thing tho was when you said other peoples opinions are subjective but yours is super cool, nice one.
Either you are deliberately playing dumb, choosing not to understand what i wrote or you are having trouble understanding written language. Most of your answers make no sense, maybe in your coherent brainworld, but not in English.

Either you are a very very good troll, then i tip my hat to you, or you are a really really really stupid person, unable to handle yourself in a social environment.


Either way, its very sad. But go ahead reiterate your favorite words again, maybe you use some of em in the right way by accident.

/me hands Hiver some Lotion.
Sorry i made you cry bro, no hard feelings?

That kind of reaction is nothing different then what you exhibited so far.
Complete lack of ability to think rationally and provide anything actually valuable.

Just spinning in your own cognitive dissonance while spewing nonsensical, self defeating blathering around in psychological projections you cannot even notice.


Yet another blatant strawman by a extreme mass market drone, feeding on cheesburgers in supermarkets.

Im sure someone will pity you.

I see you failed again in using "strawman" properly. Maybe next time.
Nice adjectives. A+ on that.


But now, stop crying and let it go dude.

Btw whats up with you and supermarkets? Have you had a bad experience there? Has your mom forgotten you there when you were little?
How can one hate so much on a supermarket. Supermarkets and modern RPGs. The root of all evil!

Here's what I believe:
1. There isn't really a right or wrong answer on the whole "heal out of town" thing. There are preferences. I'm looking at this whole argument and it's about as silly to me as one person claiming the provable superiority of chocolate ice cream versus someone claiming the provable superiority of pistachio ice cream.
2. Games should be made to accommodate the various preferences out there. There should be someone who makes chocolate ice cream, and someone who makes vanilla. It would really suck if every game was made according to the same set of preferences, and no one could find a game which catered to their "eccentricities."
3. I like me some pistachio ice cream. I also like it when there's no automatic healing in my RPGs.