Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Help/Tips/Tricks Fighter/Rogue - Lone Wolf - Needing help

Hey guys, I need some help and feedback on a possible character build that I want to try. I was trying to research the information online, but it seems vague at best. In any case...

I have been playing for about 15 hours and I played a full mage (all 5 schools) and a 2-handed warrior and the 2 companions that you get It is going good, but it was my 鍍rail run? I found that the companions are not my thing and I really want to focus on the interaction between the 2 main characters. With that being said, I want to start a new game with 2 Lone wolfs and I need some help with the builds I have some general ideas, but I am uncertain in general about several thing.

What I want to create is a Fighter/Rogue who can steal everything in plain sight and sneak around. What I am not sure is what weapons should I go with (2-handed/daggers/1-hand & shield) and whether or not I should go all dex or str. I was thinking of getting dex to 8 (for the first level tier skills) and the rest in strength. (assuming I do not go with dagger). How powerful and useful is backstabbing compared to other damage types? How useful is the sneak skill (Nasty Deeds) compared to other means to hide? If it is worth investing, how much should I invest with a fighter/thief build? What I would really like to do is to create a Fighter/Thief/Assassin (from NWN 1 & 2)

I am still thinking about my 2nd character, but I am leaning towards a mage, who might have some rogue-ish talents as well, but I am not sure yet?

In any case, thanks in advance!!

Those builds sound sub-optimal to me, but I'm sure you'll still be able to finish the game. I think most people would focus on des or str, with Per/spd as a secondary for APs. Mages who go too broad lose APs with the best endgame spells.

Fighter/rogue doesn't synergize all that well if you're not planning to use daggers. You can do it, of course, but for combat purposes you'll probably find that having to dump points into Dex (which isn't as helpful for a non-dagger melee fighter as strength, speed, or perception, I don't think) makes you a little weak until you either get good items or level enough to cap STR anyway. Backstab damage is nice, but it doesn't compare or even hang out in the same neighborhood with a two-handed Flurry or Whirlwind.

Nasty Deeds really isn't all that good, overall, honestly. A two-hander is almost as good a lockpick as an actual lockpick, and if you have someone who can do crafting, you basically have unlimited money all the time. Also, though I haven't tried since the last patch, Pickpocket was capped at a rather low value (700? 900?), thereby greatly limiting what you can steal. So Lockpicking and Pickpocket are less useful than they might be. Stealth isn't bad, it really isn't, but Invisibility is almost always going to be as good or better.

If you want to go into the DEX arena, I think you'd be better served with supplementing melee with Marksman. Bows give you such great freedom to manipulate the environment that the direct damage dealt isn't such a big deal.

If what you want to do is roleplay at the cost of optimization (and good on you if so) then you can make a rogueish lone wolf pair work. The extra health will really help you stay alive and doing damage in the extra rounds combat will probably last. But you might want to play on normal difficulty to get a feel for it. As mentioned above, that's not a very optimal build you're considering.

I have a few questions...

1. Since it doesn't synergize that good, how could I build a Rogue-warrior that could stand toe to toe against a normal 2-handed?

2. Is it possible just to focus on Man-at-Arms (2-handed) and just take Scoundrel to level 1 or 2 for non-dagger perks and sneak?

3. Can you please explain to me, why Backstab damage doesn't compare to a 2-handed warrior?

1. I don't know. Rogue doesn't really lend itself well to toe-to-toe fighting, so using points to be a Rogue just detracts from your stand-up-and-fight ability. Rogue shines, of course, in handicapping others, and taking advantage of their weakness (specifically their back being turned, for backstabs).

2. Of course. That would probably be the best way to do it, and certainly would be the cheapest (in terms of ability points and skill points) way to do it.

3. Backstab damage is good, but it's reliant on circumstance. two-handed weapon damage is not reliant on circumstance, and is therefore more reliable. It's also crazy at higher levels, easily dishing out several thousand damage a turn. If that claim sounds unreasonable, try throwing Oath of Desecration and Haste on Madora, give her a weapon with high base damage (like a sharpened custom two-hander, if you've got nothing better handy) and watch her just murder everything, everywhere. To do very high damage with a backstab character, you need to make sure that your enemies are always - or at least usually - looking at and hitting someone else. But with two Lone Wolf characters, you have fewer things to attract their attention, and while it is absolutely possible to keep behind enemies, it takes action points for movement, while the two-hander uses all their action points for mass murdering.

Please do keep in mind that I firmly believe that you can have fun playing a rogue pair, and I have no doubt that you can overcome the inherent weaknesses of the build. I'm just pointing out what I see as suboptimal; that's not necessarily bad.

Rogues can be a lot of fun and very powerful / flexible.

The problem with a Warrior/Rogue is that the Warrior skills start to really take over. They have a set cooldown regardless of what weapon you use, and get the best bonus from the highest damage weapon you can wield. Positioning is also important, because you want to get the most number of people in range of your whirlwind, but that is usually not a good backstabbing position.

Warrior skills also tend to have slightly higher strength requirements, and Strength does not contribute to the accuracy of daggers and rapiers.

Thanks for your answers... I was only thinking of really playing with 1 rogue-type character. When I said rogue-ish for the second, I meant being able to steal everything in plain sight and hide from enemies (via Walk in Shadows or Invisibility).

Right now, I am playing a 2-handed and mage (non Lone wolf) and I really miss stealing, sneaking and sneak attacks, so that is why I was asking about it...

Sounds to me that you'd like to play a Warrior build with just enough Nasty Deeds to be a cool "cloak-n-dagger" type.

You can just build a warrior as you normally would (there are several threads for that already), but try to add a little bit of flavor by getting +Nasty Deeds gear (sneak, pickpocket, lockpicking). You could even get one or two points in Scoundrel so you can have some fun abilities (Walk in Shadows is a good one if you want to use your casters as bait and let the unsuspecting melee enemies try and rush in).

Don't bother with using daggers. You can be a badass 2-handed bullying machine that can pick pockets and smash skulls.

Yeah, this is something that I really think is what I am after. I was reading some stuff on steam and someone made the suggestion that I should go the normal 2-handed route and take sneaking & the talent Guerrilla. Then during combat I can perform my sneak attacks and do double damage with my 2-handed sword... This idea sounds really fun and I started a new game with that build in mind and so far it has been fun. In the end, I plan to have my character like this: (bear in mind, it will be a lone wolf setup:


Two-handed 3 (or whatever that end-game gear thing is called)
Armour Specialist 5
Body Building 4
Willpower 4
Man-at-Arms 5
Blacksmithing 2
Crafting 2
Sneaking 3


The last 3 skills, I will aim to get the needed gear to get them to level 5. (It should be possible, correct?)

To the OP.
Your idea of a roguish fighter mage looks great.
I think it is perfectly doable as a Lone Wolf, and I would do it with the build below.


First of all, what you will have as attribute, ability and talent points to spend:

Attributes: 16 from 5 at start + 10 through level up + 1 from the Seller of Secrets (or more if you want to buy one book at every level. FYI, you should reach it at around level 9 if you spare a few side-quest xp, thus 12 additional points, splitted with your teammate that should give you an additional 6 points).
Abilities: 71 from 5 at start + 44 through level up + 19 from Lone Wolf + 3 from the Seller of Secrets (or more for the same reason. That should give you an additional 18 points).
Talents: 7 from 2 at start + 5 though level up.


Then the Abilities you want:

With Man-at-Arms 3, you will have access to (amongst others):
Dust Devil
Battering Ram
Cure Wounds
Divine Light
Draw Blood
Inspire
Whirlwind
Flurry
Rage

Note: in my opinon, the current Man-at-Arms ability is a bit broken as there is little incentive to level it very high as skills don't get better whith a higher ability level.
For instance, your (very good) starting skill Dust Devil will be the exact same with Man-at-Arms skill level 1 or 5, with the same cooldown and the same damage. Damage depends on your Strength, your weapon and the corresponding weapon skill. That means that you could end end thinking that Man-at-Arms level 3 is perfect enough. Sure you won't have access to the Weather of Storm talent, but with your plate armor and a couple of rubies, you should be fine enough.

With Air level 3 you will have access to (amongst others):
Become Air
Farseer
Teleportation
Invisibility
Feather Drop
Plus the ability to create static cloud and electrified surfaces and remove all kind of surfaces (Tornado).

Then the abilities I recommend:

With Witchcraft level 3, you will have access to the famous Oath of Desecration and be able to do nasty things (rogue for the win) like removing 5 Willpower points from an enemy or mass weaken a group of enemies. You will also get some nice summons.

With Water level 1, you will have access to a basic heal when your other options are on cooldown, to Rain in order to shut those fire surfaces down and to Water of Life which boosts your Constitution.

With Pyro level 1, you will have access to Wild Fire for a very nice haste effect and Flare in order to set those oil surfaces on fire.

Note : all the above abilities will make your investment in Intelligence more worth it.

With Willpower and Body Building level 5, you will get all the resistance againsts statuses you can get.
As mentioned before, this is recommended in a two lonewolves party.

With Leadership level 3, you will boost your teammate with very nice bonuses (initiative, damage, chance to hit, crit chance). That would be nice if he/she could get the same bonus for you
It should be noted that Leadership bonus can come on various items and I would not be surprised you would end up with Leadership 5.

The following are optional but I recommend them because you need to spend some points on non-combat abilities in a two lonewolves party.

With Blacksmithing level 3 and Crafting level 2, you will be able to max both with some bonuses on spare gear you keep in your bag and the right Trait (Pragmatic). Your teammate will be happy with your ability to max all his/her gear out.

All of this for 65 ability points.

You will then have 6 remaining points that you can spend in your weapon of choice, Two-Handed or Tenebrium (or one after the other if you want to respec) up to level 3.

As an option, and if you don't want to spend all these points in Blacksmithing or Crafting, I recommend you invest some points into Sneaking. Not much, like level 2, as you may get some bonuses on your gear or add some Void Essence to it. That would make your character more roguish, and with the right Talent (Guerrilla) you could do huge damage each time you can sneak before landing your two-handed blow.


Then the Attribute distribution:


For Intelligence, all the recommended mage skills above require 10 at max.
No need to push it more as all these spells are not damage oriented.
It is pretty easy to get a bonus of 2 from gear (Amulet and Sarong), so you should aim a base of 8 Intelligence.
I would start at 7 and add a point later and would be set.
3 points required then.

For Constitution, as a Lone Wolf, you should not care much regarding your vitality. You will have plenty, even in Hard mode.
However, if you plan to take the Glass Cannon Talent, then it could be another story and you will have to invest some points in there.
Not only for the added vitality in order to compensate a bit the loss from the talent, but also because you want to raise your Max AP.
You should also favor gear with added Constitution in this case.
Don't forget you have access to the Water of Life spell!
I would start at 5 in any case.
x (Glass Cannon) or 0 points required then.

For Speed, it depends on wether you are going to take Glass Cannon or not.
If yes, then you don't need much as you will double your AP recovery.
I would start at 6 and raise it by one point later (It is not uncommon to find speed bonuses on rings and boots).
If not, then I would start at 6 as well, but I would invest more points later.
2 (Glass Cannon) or x+2 points required then.

For Perception, I am afraid you will be pretty bad at it.
Choices have to be made because Lone Wolf, for some reason I don't get personnally, doesn't provide you with more Attribute points.
I would start at 5 and expect some bonuses on gear, like on helm for instance, and maybe on your weapon if you're lucky.
It would be nice to have the Fire ability at level 2 for the nice Burn My Eyes spells which boosts Perception by 2 but I could not find the needed 2 ability points.
Of course, if you think you will buy these books at the Seller of Secrets after each level up, then the problem is over.
0 point required then.

For Strength, you should aim, well, the max, i.e. a base of 15.
I would start at 7 and would invest all points I don't invest in Constitution (Glass Cannon) or Speed (otherwise).
16-5-x points required then, up to 10.

The total must be 16 Attribute points, unless you buy more than one book at the Seller of Secrets.


About the Talents, I leave you make your choice
Happy gaming.