I doubt anything can cc you ay 8-9 bodybuilding and willpower
True.
So let me put it another way, and elaborate.
Right now, every single person complaining about LW/GC and/or the difficulty of the game has multiple characters in their party with at least Leadership 1 (I think making such a claim is pretty damn safe). As well, most probably have at least Leadership 4 on one character.
Leadership 1--in terms of Initiative--is the equivalent of 5 Intiative-granting, non-slot filling magical items. Viewed alternatively, Leaderhip 1 effectively grants ~10 free Attribute points (speed/perception) for the purposes of determining initiative. These attritube points can, likewise, be translated into 10 attribute-granting, non-slot filling magical items, or even 20 level advancements, if you'd prefer that.
What grants this awesome boost? Saying "No" to a fish thief at level 2! (And this is not an optional trait conversation)
Scenario 1:
So now we take those 10 free attribute points/20 level advancements/5 non-slot filling magical items into combat with two LW/GC characters, where this boost to initiative allows the two PCs to act first. These two characters are facing 6 AI units.
After 1.5 turns (Player, AI, Player), the player has fought with 7-9 "characters" and the AI has fought with 6. After 2 full turns (Player, AI, Player, AI), the player has fought with 7-9 "characters" and the AI has fought with 12 units. Sounds good, even challenging... but it's not.
Either from damage or CC, the player has reduced the enemy AI to (let's say) 3 creatures on his first turn. That means, after 1 full turn (Player, AI), the player has fought with 3-5 "characters" and the AI has fought with 3. After 1.5 turns, the player has presumably killed/CC'd the next three AI units. That means that after 2 full turns, the player fought with 7-9 "characters" and the AI fought with 3. The AI, NO MATTER HOW WELL PROGRAMMED, never had a chance.
Scenario 2:
No Initiative bonus from Leadership! If this does not straight away give the AI the Initiative with most of its units, then it would at least puts pressure on the player in terms of equipping Initiative gear (which comes with its own opportunity costs), and speed and perception investment (which also has opportunity costs). But let's assume the AI does have the initiative.
After 1.5 turns, the AI has fought with 9 units (if we assume the player killed/CC'd the same number of AI units from Scenario 1) and the player has fought with 4-5. After 2 full turns, the AI has fought with 9 characters and the player has fought with 7-9. After 3 full turns, the AI has fought with 9 characters (assuming the player finishes off the last 3 AI units) and the player has fought with 11-14.
Now, these aren't amazing numbers... but they do show that Initiative matters! (Which should be obvious since combat is turn based)
The second scenario also assumes that the PCs are not CC'd because they have godly Bodybuilding and Willpower. However, what Scenario 2 does not take into account is the damage the player receives and the effect that lost HP has on the player's AP. In Scenario 2, instead of the player spending all of his turn 1 AP on DD/CC, he's now spending a portion on healing or helping his comrade. Which means he is, in a way, fighting with fewer "characters" and the AI is fighting with more (since they're not being DD'd or CC'd).
Addition: To those who will respond that resists can very easily become OP, I have two things to say. First, crafting resists to the point of becoming near-invulnerable requires some player effort, whereas the Initiative benefits of Leadership requires player effort TO AVOID. Second: my god, do you not even have the slightest bit of self discipline to limit your power in this game (by just a little bit) to make it more fun and challenging?
And what creates the difference between Scenario 1 and 2? Picking "bad fish thief, bad".
So this is my challenge: pick whatever class/talents/etc that you want, but Leadership can never get above 0 on any character in the group. Does the game seem different?
