Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity Original Sin - Help/Tips/Tricks Min-maxing and role playing options for playing

I usually like to explore / compare different options for playing an RPG. In D: OS, I spent some time in the first few hours of Cyseal, as well as some time playing user created modules (Underseige).

Based on the user created mods, I have been able to understand the underlying skills more than the actual enemies in DOS (since I havent played it too much it)

I am curently thinking of the following party compositions:

1.
Witchcraft + Geomancy (Summon Spider)
Hydrosophist + Geomancy (Summon Spider)
Madora
Jahan
(I have the Reworked Madora + Jahan mod which gives Jahan Aerothure and Pyromancy).

This gives me two summons to start off, and seems OP.

Will this combo work mid to late game?
Are there other summons, or do summons taper off?

2.
A party composition similar to above, but with a greater focus on crowd-control spells to compensate on NO summons.

Will this work?

3.
A party with a single Witch (for the buffs, debuffs and crowd control), two fighters and a rogue.
This seems the most difficult to play, more for the roleplay than the ease.
Perhaps, I might need to lower the difficulty level with this.
Or, I might need the other members to also have a few points in Witchcraft.

Note: The basic point in the above party is to minimise use of magic (which seems the most powerful element). Other viable builds that minimise magic would be much appreciated.

Looking forward to your inputs.

Also, what kind of build is better late game compared to early game.

For the main campaign I'd advise against a full-mage-party. One or even two full casters with buffs, debuffs and crowd control spells will definitely stay useful until the end game but you will need physical damage later on. In fact option 3 is a much stronger end-game team than the others

Elemental combos and terrain interaction is one of the strong and fairly unique suits of the game, which is why I'd recommend to keep at least one full caster. You don't need to limit yourself to two schools, though. Not every skill has to be maxed. In fact, creating a versatile caster with 5 magic disciplines is better than maxing two. Also, you might want to give this character Loremaster 5 to be able to decide quickly which elements to use in a fight.

There are better summons than spiders in the game, yes. However, imho summons are pretty useful at the beginning but tend to be weaker as the game progresses. There are also better substitutes (e.g. charms).

It should be fairly straightforward to progress on hard with a completely non-magical party as well, so I doubt you'd have real difficulties with option 3.

Thanks for the help.

Some more questions:

1.
Why does the end-game favor physical damage? Is it because enemies have high resistances?

2.
Do enemies have summons

3.
How useful are bows / crossbows and the associated skill?

4.
Based on the feedback above, here is a less mage-heavy party:

Rogue - Daggers
Archer
Fighter or Knight
Mage

Is it possible for the same member to be both the rogue and the archer?
If not, what additional abilities should I pick on the rogue / archer / fighter.

1. Pretty much, most enemies have substantial magical resistances. That may have changed in the latest patch though, but I haven't tested that part.

2. Sometimes, but they're often scripted or special, so Destroy Summon may not work on them.

4. It is possible for someone to be a Rogue and Archer as their primary stat is the same. It's only a matter of where you want to put your ability points.

In addition to Stabbey's answers:

1. Exactly, yes. Some of this can be mitigated by taking Loremaster 5 and having access to all elements, but sometimes you will need weapon damage.

2. Yes, they do. As Stabbey says, they sometimes don't get treated as such by the game.

3. VERY useful in my oppinion. In fact, I'd prefer an Archer to a Rogue any time, even though you cannot backstab with a bow (you can do guerilla damage with high sneaking though, and you don't have to move in position). Special arrows make the build versatile. Besides, you need at least one character with high Perception anyway.

I'd prioritize bows, even though it might seem that crossbows get a better damage per AP at first. It's not easy to fit 6-7 AP into a turn multiple times. Besides, with Quickdraw bows will catch up.

If you want a specialized archer, make sure you look into Crafting. Self-made bows are the best.

4. You can easily make a Rogue / Archer hybrid given that you'd want to max Dexterity for both. Note that changing weapons in combat uses up AP. So maybe start shooting first, then change to dagger and go melee?

Yeah Fighter is king of giving and soaking damage if built correctly, and can become unstoppable killing machines if using Battering ram to get in the fight, Dust devil and Whirlwind to hit everyone around after getting into the middle of them, or Flurry to kill/weaken bosses in one move, Power stance is better than Rage IMHO, less damage but fewer adverse effects. I give scrolls to the fighter so he is effectively a fighter mage, Lone wolf him and max his stats ( STR SPD CON first), defense skills and weapon skills. Fighter carries everything and is also the face-man...you want him up front anyway.

I always build a Rogue/Archer (Wolgraff)...stats for optimization are same for both, Rogue skills are not battle-winners IMHO. Some others have probably used Rogue skills and sneak about more than I do and can report there are other viable tactics that are effective. I use my Archer as a base of fire to support the manuever element ( the fighter). Archers should use Richochet, Arrow Spray, Barrage, and power stance, especially ricochet. Get the Archer Heartseeker and upgrade it as much as possible-sextant, bowstring, tenebrium, elemental essence all can be added making it lethal.

Mage's are good for the AOE/summons spells, healing, and buffing the fighter and rogue, I never de-buff the enemy better to do more damage or buff a party member. Summoning spells, are force multipliers for small parties ( I always play small parties), especially undead armored decapitator and Spider seems to be the best summons in the game. Mage is also usually my crafter, blacksmith and identifier.

I am not nearly so experienced in this game as others but so far I have not done terribly, you can build a character any way you like but a master of all skills or abilities is not going to be great at any of them, specialization is essential. I personally think lockpick, sneak, pickpocket, charisma, barter, telekinesis have their uses and fans but points could be spent better.

Fighters benefit from stats and gear the most( improving a fighters abilities by improving gear is a cheap and easy way to make them more effective), mages from skills ( more spells and high Intelligence makes a mage an arsenal) and rogues need both, although as I stated I under-use the Rogue like skills and abilities. Everyone benefits from high Leadership, which I try to get to 5 on both primary characters.

Many ways of doing things and progressing in the game, more than one answer to nearly every situation, a very strong game with many nuances...I am still learning something new all the time.

Agreed on the remark on barter, charisma, pickpocket, and lockpicking being useless skills in this game. Telekinesis is not useless, but can easily be taken care of with items or potions. Sneaking 5 for an archer build, however, is brutal. With a home-made bow (with Crafting 5), Guerilla and Quickdraw the damage per AP exceeds not only rogues but even melee characters, given that For 4 AP you can go into sneak mode and shoot. Not to mention that as long as you finish your turn in sneak mode you won't be needing any defensive skills because you simply won't get hit.

The advantage to be able to control the battle field without having to move (much) is priceless. Plus you still have Tactical Retreat to get in a position where melee characters can't reach you easily.

Ricochet, Barrage, Arrow Spray and the like should only be used in those rare occasions when the battle field is too crowded to sneak between shots, because their damage per AP output is worse than that of a normal guerilla shot. The most useful ranger skill to me is Rapture, by a large margin. And of course all those special arrows.

HMMM thanks Sleepybadger, the benefit of experience being given to us freely!

I havent really tried stealthing that much ( I guess I am reticent because I expect it to fail at the worst possible moment and I like melee combat a lot), but those sound like good tools to have in the arsenal, I admit I am underestimating it. I have not taken Guerilla and quickshot yet, and good point about not needing evasion/deefensive skills. So maybe used in that manner those skills are battle-winners, but as I have been pleased to discover there is more than one way to solve the problem. I am sure I have not tried every equation yet.

Yes i stated my dislike/disdain for telekinesis poorly, it isnt something that cannot be handled by getting gear, can be useful but do not spend points on it, would be my comment.

Special arrows are great! Those were one of my favorite items in Baldurs Gate(s) as well and they are even better in D:OS.

Rapture is really that good? Hmm time for a rethink and some experimentation.

However...if missile weapons become so devastating that really is kind of crap, from the reality point of view, I seriously do not believe an arrow will cause more physical harm than a Zweihander, sure there are some pretty interesting and awe-inspiring anecdotes about archery, the door at Abergavenny castle in the Welsh wars comes to mind at once. Well Felix it is a game!

I'm quite the opposite then, I tend to create sneaky characters just to get to places I'm not supposed to be I enjoy soloing RPGs with rogue type characters (also for the added excitement), so my first playthrough of D:OS was with two lone wolves, a sneaky wizard (with all schools) and a sneaky archer. This makes some of the early boss fights somewhat tricky (e.g. Evelyn or Braccus), but most of the time it's way too easy, even on hard.

Even if you prefer a classic melee-type party, a sneaky archer might be a great addition to it imo. Later in the game you don't even have to invest points in sneak. You can enhance the four peaces of apparel with void essences and get boots with +1 to sneaking which tend to be relatively common.

Rapture is awesome for crowd control If your Dexterity is high enough it rarely misses (except for bosses, but that's not what it was meant for in any case).

Hm, no I said missile weapons with the extra guerilla damage are devastating Which is probably OK, I guess it means the character has some knowledge in human (or whatever creature) anatomy to know where to shoot... Unfortunately two-handers would rarely profit from guerilla, right? You'd have to waste lots of AP on moving around or always have someone handy to blind or incapacitate your current melee target...

Yeah roger that.

Knights do not sneak too well. And that would probably be a mis-allocation of valuable resources and talent.

Stealthy Archer is my next experiment, why not I beat it with my preferred character types already.

I use Wolgraff a lot but he comes as he is out of the box and would need more to be on the level of archer and rogue your describing I think, he has been my only NPC when I play a Knight and a Wizard, he takes up the rogue and archer slack and has been effective enough, But I think I can benefit from your experienced advice on this.

In Baldurs Gate 2 I always played an elf Ranger-Archer ( an awesome class template, but you probably know) so this isnt so far off one of my preferred character types.

Don't forget the Cautious trait to improve you Sneak.


I'm still quite new with the game (still in Cyseal) so I'm throwing this strategy out hoping you guys can tell me if it's sound idea.

The strategy was conceived for a Fighter class (but would also fit a Rogue class too). I was a bit disappointed with Battering Ram due to it's short range. So I'm thinking of putting 2 points into Aerotheurge specifically for Lightning Strike spell (take other spell as you see fit, Teleportation is a fave of mine). The idea is Lightning Strike an opponent and that places my Fighter in the midst of my opponents. A great setup for Dust Devil and Whirlwind. While my Archer and Mages/Witch snipes/debuffs/disable as many opponents to help the Fighter survive in there. Either that or have someone Feather Drop the Fighter into the fray. Alternatively, for the Rogue, it's gonna be Lightning Strike then Walk In Shadows and then let your imagination work. I'm guessing this strategy doesn't require me to pump points into Intelligence for it to work (although it helps). My only concern is that it takes 8AP to perform Lightning Strike. What do you guys think?

In my current play Bairdotr & Wolgraff are with us, two kind of mages, one with earth & fire skills, the other with air & water skills.
One of the mages (man) is a battlemage (just because of using melee weapon & shield, but also have a staff in case of ...), the other a pure mage with also Witchcraft skills later on ...
We spend all their money on buying 2 rings with "Loremaster" on them for the battlemage so now level 3 he has already Loremaster 5 (I like to know the weak spots of my enemies !) so we can set your strategy up depending the weak (and strong) spots !
For example : she has Summon Spider, but do not use it discovering the enemy has poison resistance 100 ! Aha, that enemy is vulnerable for crushing damage, I take my stick with nails (or something) or use Teleportation (also one of my favorites!) smashing that enemy, dealing crushing damage, on a puddle of oil so my companion now can strike Flare on it IF that enemy survived that smash !!

I think I gonna try giving Bairdotr or Wolgraff more Sneak ability points to try new things out ! Thanks for the info about sneak !
Yes, Lightning Strike is also one of my favo's .. !
I'm always in for skills giving the possiblilty to do a "tactical move" !!

I always played with an almost full party in BG2, and I had a ranger too! (I always left one spot to be able to hire NPCs to be able to complete their quests.)

True, the Cautious trait is important, but sadly it only benefits PCs, not Wolgraff. And he could do with a bit more sneaking, for sure

tripleDot: the problem is, you need to raise your INT for your spells to be really effective otherwise they won't do any mentionable damage, they'll have only minimal chance to incapacitate enemies and they'll have long cool-down times. You can make a hybrid character of course, but with 15 attribute points to distribute over 20 levels your battlemage will end up being significantly weaker than a specialized fighter or mage.

As an alternative I'd suggest using (and crafting) scrolls. At least they would not penalize the AP cost and they won't have a failure chance due to low INT. They still won't be as effective as a real mage with INT 20+, but that's only fair. Then again, as far as scrolls go, fighters might profit more from buffs and summons. Physical damage is much stronger than even higher level elemental spells in this game. Using spells like Rain and then Shocking Touch or Blitz Bolt would require less INT and AP to be effective. Of course you need to make sure that your fighter resists the stun effects as well.

EDIT: as far as Sneaking is concerned, it's quite important to raise it to rank 5 if you are going to use it regularily. Going into sneak mode will then cost only 1 AP and the sight cones of enemies would be significantly smaller.

My solution to Battle-Mage ( Fighter-Magicuser to the D and D/Rolemaster/PNP RPG crowd) Sleepy Badger is right, a dedicated Fighter is better at fighting than a Battlemage, and a dedicated mage is better at magic than a Battlemage, so I give every scroll I want to use and not sell to the fighter, he is a Battlemage at that point. SPecilaization is better than being a jack of all trades and master of none.

Its pretty cool to Battering ram into a crowd of enemies wounding and knocking down a few on the way in, whirlwind or dust devil to finish off or wound further, then start working the survivors over with whatever offensive scrolls you have, interspersed with blows of your weapon to those in reach, also melee weapon strikes usually cost less than a spell.

Magic is flashy and cool to watch but Fighters are just as necessary, and far less squishy.