Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General The Random Loot system - A honest feedback

Yes, it can be frustrating and unfulfilling especially since the rest of the gamne is so excellant, my latest party is 10th level, getting ready to meet Braccus and no one has any really good items.

At the very least every boss should drop a legendary item, and the merchants should all at least stock some legendaries.

I know combining items sounds kind of monty-haul but really hacks me off when you have 2 mediocre items and need just one good one.

Linio, I feel the pain, I also am really sick of telekinesis and +10% resist earth rings, ( as Stabbey said ( very corrrectly) nothing uses Earth based damage, or very little does and generally elemental resistances are the least useful of item abilities).

Not sure if we are beating a dead horse or even if they would want ot improve it, maybe this si the games biggest non-technical weak point, hey even Baldurs Gate(s) had some things in it I didnt like
and I think most of the items in IWD were very generic and ho-hum. No vorpal swords? oh wait there is a vorpal sword its the Githyanki silversword which is sucktacular for its attack speed if I remember right....why penalize the player, the company got my money, gaming should be rewarding and fun. I think Larian could fix it and didnt break it intentionally, its just meh and really unrewarding in final execution/operation.

Now on my last playthrough I did find the best item I have ever found, so far.

Legendary Claymore 2handed sword.
+13 crit chance
+1 to STR, CON, SPD, Dex, ( and I threw a Tormented soul on it immediately)
probably had some other ability or 2 I forgot, but since I found it at 12th level I gave it up around level 15 because it no longer could do competitive damage and couldnt be upgraded! that really hurt if I could have upgraded the damaqe more, I would have used that until the end of the game!

It's not that i'm against Random Items.

It's actually the fact that those are not so random.
I don't know if speaking of this subject here is actually getting attention from the dev, if not, where this should be talked about.

Legendary is not specially a solution in my opinion, more unique would be nice, i mean i encounter very little of those, and some of them were just plain stupid (either just weak, or painfully not funny, like the Stone Sword). A whole lot of legendary were just +1 in each attribute which, let's face it, is not actually that strong. I'm yet to encounter items that put +2 in something, but i'm guessing, it does not exist either.

So yeah, more variety, and a range in power, i'm level 10 and still founding items (not weapon thankfully but rings and amulets) the same power of level 1 items...

No Linio I have had items that give +2 stat bonuses, they are not terribly common, they definately should be more common. Legendary ( Legendary and Unique- orange and gold tier items are the items that are desireable usually and should kind of level up and stay competitive til endgame), blue items are only exciting when you have nothing worth having and dont cause that much aexcitement to begin with, green items are replacements for blue, but not a whole lot better.

I am not against random either, just not weak useless items that do not reward, excite or improve the character. Random is good in lots of ways. I am not offering a lot of helpful advice here, just an expressed desire for items to be better, not lose their useful competitive edge throughout the game and agree with most of the others that are unhappy with loot for their often similar reasons.

Yeah what is up with the Stone Sword what use is that? I thought it might cause petrification or something for a one time use...nada. Yeah there are not that many unique items, Sword of the Planets is good, I wish it came in a 2handed version!

I do know from my previous playthroughs that items get better above level 10 ( so dont despair too much) but that as I said they become obsolete especially weapons, which sucks and since they cant remain competitive for damage versus a lower tier item thats higher level you have to abandon it for a higher damage weapon that has few if any enhancements...a lot. Hence my wish for combining items.

Items around level 1-13 give +1 ability bonus. Above level 14 they grant +2 bonus and +3 at level 20+. This is not the problem. The problem is there's no control over what boni an item actually gives (except the limitations e.g. Blacksmithing only appears on bracers and belts). And very often the random loot generator would actually create fairly nonsensical items. A level 10 legendary two-handed sword could have +1 one-handed, +1 shield specialist, +1 dexterity, +1 perception. An example of an expensive legendary item. However, you'd be much happier about a GREEN one granting +1 strength and +1 two-handed.

95% of the time all you get from the game are stupid items you'd sell immediately. Which puts an extra strain on you who bought the game for fun. You keep wasting time on checking out the item, determining it's of no use to you, and taking it to a merchant. In my first playthrough I did not invest in bartering at all and still ended up with over a million gold at the end, not having anything to spend it on.

In my current playthrough I found legendary items by the numbers before I even reached level four. Never happened to me before. On the other hand the second random feature, which would be scroll production, seems to be stuck at two or three spells. I've got a stack of bloodletting, blindness and curses by now, but not one of the more valuable spells at the level my party's at now.

How very odd, the scroll thing I mean. I find a lot of scrolls and sell almost all of them except the offensive damage dealer type spells for my fighter, since debuffs and defensive scrolls really are so situationally specific I find that being offensive is more effective, that would suck. I have lotsa shield this and that scrolls but no Fireballs, Blitbolts, Boulder bashes or summoning scrolls, WTF? I mean you can make your own but I havent yet no real need.

I dont think I have ever found a legendary item before level 6 or maybe 7.

SleepyBadger is correct and gives an excellant example with his 2Handed sword that really is a penalty item not a reward, good only for the money it sells for. Yes the green tier 2Handed Sword with +1 STR and +1 2handed skill would be a nice item and upgradeable so would stay efficacious for a few levels hopefully. I hate having a great level 12 weapon that becomes obsolete 2 levels later. Really frosts my nethers.

And I agree with him furthermore that I do sell 95% of the items I find, in fact I would go farther and say I sell 99% of all items because they are useless to my whole party, I also get a little irked that I can craft a sword that does more damage than one I find or buy at a given level but I cant give it any other abilities, another reason I would like to combine items...I like the damage from the Claymore I just made but want the peripheral buffs from the Claymore I found last level on my new sword.

Okay so I have gone into straight complaining-whining-bitching mode...sorry. It isnt helping, I know. I have not downloaded the editor yet, but may, if I cant get better items maybe I should just make uber characters. I hate doing it there is always some bloody issue.

Hence my question : what is?
Are those topics actually read by the team?
If so, would there be a point of trying to voice a solution?
Maybe this topic would not be the ideal place (specially on page 7). Should we create a new topic to try and list solutions we would propose for the loot system?

I don't want to resort to using cheats or such, it's a great game, it would be a shame.

There are a few interesting discussions going on concerning this topic, like Endarire suggesting pre-ordering merchandise.

I certainly do hope some ideas will be picked up for the team for the next title. In fact, even if they fancy random loot for it, writing some minimal logic behind random item creation would already solve some issues (e.g. any item having a STR prereq should grant +STR but not INT or DEX, two-handed swords should not grant one-handed or bow bonus etc.)

I also hope they change some of the loot placing logic too. I think I'd be OK with the random loot system if I could be sure I'd find some great items in the important chests (like boss chests etc). But at the moment the variation is just too huge. Sometimes you find two legendaries in a locatiion, sometimes it's a single blue item plus a low level skill book. That's what causes many people to savescum.

The problem of the pre ordering system is that it's actually quite complicated to put in place whereas simply diversify items and actually put all attributes and skills and why not talents would be a great first step.

Honestly it wouldn't matter much that you would find stupid loot like strength base weapon that gives DEX if this was as rare as finding any other items!

Yeah that was my fear, that it would be hard to implement.

But I am seeing how random it is this playthrough and also how lousy and frustrating it can be, I have found at level 12 and I am in Hiberheim, not one weapon or set of armor that is really worth having I do have a few rings and amulets that do not completely blow/suck but it hardly makes up for it. Even the merchants are selling crap items. Again I think Merchants should all generate some legendary and unique items every level up, it doesnt have to be a ton of em just 1 ring, 1 robe/armor, 1 amulet, 1 belt, 1 boots, 1 helm/hat, 1 2h weapon, 1 1h weapon 1 missile weapon....etc.
Make it worth it to go and look and try to get something better.

Linio your right some of the loot is just stupid, amulets with 1 elemental resistance, weapons that give a boost to something else thats contradictory +1 2handed on a dagger or +1 shield on a 2 handed weapon for instance. The Stone Sword....

Putting talents on items would be a cool thing if the talent doesnt suck! Especially some ofthe hi-tier talents which are really hard to qualify for.

I'm just at the final stages of a playthrough with home made stuff. It's usually much better than what you find if your crafter is up to his game. The problem lies in finding the much needed tormented soul. The only problem I have is with boots, belts and rings. There doesn't seem to be a way to enchanct them properly. Just add a claw or some other gadget which really doesn't do much in later stages of the game.

Have never tried to enchant aaulets, boots, belts, or rings. And what you can do to armor seems to be very little, remove the move penalty via anvil and improve the armor value with scale scraps oh and add steakth with void essence, so far thats all I have found but there may be thingsI dont know about.

Yeah tormented soul is weird, in one playthrough I had about 5 of em at one point and one on the weapon, this playthrough I have seen one in 12 levels? WTF?

I feel your pain man!

It's a good option for low level characters, when you haven't yet found better belts or boots for everybody in the party. Sure, that simple +1/+2/+3 modifier becomes meaningless later on. There should really be a way to stack them.

I tend to visit all ingredient merchants after gaining a level. I would buy up all void essences, all tormented souls, sextants, sinews etc. Even if I don't intend to create new weapons on that level. Having spares never hurts.

Yeah, that's what I did after running on empty for some time. Travelling through all the hubs and buying what they had.

Yes, me as well, I always buy the tormented souls, sextants, sinews, essences, joshua's spice...which must be the rarest item and its rarity is very inconsistent. Better to have them and not need them, than need them and not have them.

My level up routine has become pretty well standardised, if you guys dont have one by the 2nd playthrough I would be very surprised,

I wish Tormented Souls affected STR and SPD instead of STR and DEX. Actually what would be even better is more enhancer bits like the Tormented soul that affect other stats like one that boosts SPD and CON and another that buffs INT and PER. and for an item to able to accept multiple ehancers.

I won't lie: this sounds like a very complex solution for a very simple problem.
Designing and hand-placing specific items or merchant inventories would probably work far better requiring a lot less effort from developers.





Yeah, even if Larian wants to stick absolutely to random itemization, these would be significant improvements.

My take on loot is that no game has ever got it quite right but some have got a a lot closer than others. I think there are three laws about loot and the related subject of crafting (since crafting directly affects loot in a game):

1. Crafting is a zero sum game. Either you can craft better equipment than you can loot or buy or you can't. If you can, crafting is the only game in town and loot is all but irrelevant except for money to buy consumables, if you can't crafting is a waste of time and looting and shopping, especially specific items, is all that matters. Balance is impossible because if crafted vs. looting were equal you would always choose crafting since that way you can make exactly the items you want but you may not be able to buy/find them.

2. It is impossible in this day and age for many people to resist Googling "[MyGame] best weapon" etc. It is almost impossible for the remainder to avoid coming across spoilers for these as people inevitably discuss them interminably round the boards.

3. In every game either you can buy anything you want but have a restricted supply of money or you can make effectively unlimited amounts of money but there is a restricted supply of quality items.

No game I've played has IMO ever managed to navigate this minefield and many have made howling errors in addressing it. Some of my favorite examples:

Skyrim: crafting is everything. Loot, even the supposedly legendary deidric artifacts and weapons, are pathetic by comparison to what you can craft for yourself, utterly useless. Quest rewards, whether gold or items, are therefore irrelevant or more accurately non-existent.

Wasteland 2: If you choose to use energy weapons there is only one in the game worth anything, the Gamma Ray Blaster. If you do not locate this weapon (and it is pretty hardy to find and secure blind) your energy weapon character is massively gimped and there is nothing you can do about it. Epic fail.

NWN2: Theoretically you can craft all the best gear, and the game goes to much trouble to encourage you to do so. But in practice the crafting system was nerfed to stop you doing it by making key ingredients extremely rare and the skill/feat/level combination requirements Byzantine complicated and difficult to achieve. Ragequit inducing misdirection.

Other games have got it nearly right IMO:

DAO: Everything you might want is available at selected merchants, but the quality items are so expensive and gold so hard to accumulate that you cannot afford to equip your party with everything you would like to - you have to make hard choices. Except you don't because they also put in the Lyrium Potion scam enabling you to mint unlimited gold and buy everything at the cost of a little traveling and mouse-clicking. Why did they ruin it with that?

BG/IWD/PST (the IE games): Essentially like DAO except no "Lyrium Potion Scam" exploit and much better genuinely unique found items and quest rewards. IMO the best looting/shopping system except for one flaw. If you don't know what you're going to find you can waste too much gold on unnecessary items and you can skill up in the wrong weapons type irreversibly. It also suffers from the "[MyGame] best weapon" thread problem of course.

My view is that nobody has ever got this completely right and in the grand scheme of things DOS doesn't do that bad a job of things, subject to some irritations. But then every RPG has irritations of one sort or another. Most people get pretty irritated looking at their monthly payslips too.

I've always wondered why a gamer want to know/find "[MyGame] best weapon" ...

Maybe I'm one of the exceptions who don't care for having the best weapon ... ???

Gregorovich: yes, earlier in this thread I brought up the same topic. In fact, with some of the examples you had there.

And I repeat: D:OS had by far the best combat system and elemental magic system I've ever seen in a game. However, in terms of generating loot it's seriously lacking usefulness and creativity. Which is why I think the idea of pre-ordering is exciting, even if (yes, Tuco) it would be a complete overhaul of the previous system.

As far as NWN2 is concerned, I disagree with you Gregorovich full-heartedly. That game had a loot system I could live with any time. It had truckload of hand-placed, quality loot you could count on. Yes, crafting great items was difficult. In fact, you could only create one set of "gear for life" for each of your characters. But that was more than enough for the end game. And it brought its own challenges...you had to calculate what you could possibly create with the given essences and gemstones and then decide which items were the most important to you. And the rest of your gear was still useful and good but not the very best, which is OK in my book. I enjoyed that system very much. So much better than D:OS in terms of loot.

I have no problem with NW2 loot, just the crafting. As you say crafting was it's own challenge given the limited number or rogue stones and king's tears etc, but my problem is that you don't know how many of those you are going to get. In the end after first playthrough i didn't bother with crafting at all as it was too much hassle for too little return. Just relied on loot and purchases which was, as you say, fine. To me NWN2 crafting is a con - I'm not interested in fiddling with crafting systems for their own sake, only if they bring tangible worthwhile results.