Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Stabbey's General comments and criticism

Idea for more weapon talents. We have only ranged one. There is one for each category:


The Highlader talent>> two hand edge specialist. +10% to hit, +10 points to defense, +2 initiative
The Stabbey >> dagger specialist. 20% chance attack cost 1point only. +10%hit, +1 initiative
Fencer >> one handed edge weapon, +15 points to defense. If the oponent miss and used a regular weapon (not claws, tooth, fist) there is a 15% chance for automatic attack of oportunity.
Butcher >> axes one handed and two handed. damage +10%. On hit 15% chance to knock (80% + bonus strenght)

Casting and shooting weapons in heat of battle should not be so easy:
Ranged shoot, or cast provokes attack of oportunity.

Yeah using a spell or a missile weapon within striking distance of a combatant using a melee weapon should provoke an attack of opportunity...I am really surprised and dismayed that it does not.

I do think more weapon talentst sre needed, I like Highlander...2handed swords my favorite so I was already sold...Instead though...take off the +10% to hit since by the time you get it you dont need help hitting, I was gonna suggest it cost 1 AP less to use 2Handed edge wpns but not really liking that.

I actually think about 1/2 of the talents are useless or just not worth it. Adding some more for weapons is really needed.

Generally, I think this is an okay idea. I do not think that it should be applied as a blanket effect to everyone.

Rangers by definition should usually not be in melee range of enemies to begin with, but I'll put that aside.

If the AoO rules were to be changed to include ranged attacking and casting, I think that touch-range skills, and self-target-only effects should be exempt from provoking AoO's. Touch range for the obvious reason that they are MEANT to be used at close range, and self-target-only ones for balance reasons. I'd also go as far as saying casting healing spells should also be exempt.

I also think that movement/escape skills should also be exempt from provoking AoO's, because they are meant specifically for escaping an enemy without provoking an AoO




Yeah, more talents please.

Oh yeah STabbey good point about not all spells should provoke an attack of oppurtunity,the point about rangers isnt that they shouldnt get a free pass, but the play style of keeping them out of harms way to prevent attacks of oppurtunity is a players tactical perogative, if they stand there in range and stupidly shoot then they should get hit anyway.

However I disagree on touch spells...thats an attack and if you move into range nad have ashorter weapon well thats the fault of the toon trying it.
Touch attack spells should provoke an attack of oppurtunity if they get in range of the someone who can swing on them, it is no different than any other attack, if I was a swordsman and some little geek tried to get up close to give me a pat of encouragement, I am not going to ignore him.

Healing spells and escape/movement skills or spells should not provoke an attack of opportunity for precisely the reasons you gave. On this I agree and had not considered it until you brought it up.

I am not confident that Larian will change anything about attacks of opportunity, but I really wish it worked more like it did in Temple of Elemental Evil. It made it so even a fighter that is doing nothing is practicing area-denial. As it is now I dont think it works that well, it certainly in my case seems to only happen about 25% of the time it should happen. I hate that someone with a shorter weapon is able to rush up and hit soemone with a longer weapon with little fear of being whacked, same for someone using a spell or shooting.

Rogue skills are all touch-range. Rogues tend to have lower HP and attack with a very short range weapon by definition. Should Rogue skills prompt an AoO? Should they prompt an AoO even when attacking from behind?

Should every single thing a warrior does provoke an AoO?

Yeah hadnt gotten around to rogues in the evaluation of its implications yet since I dont use em much. One thing at a time and there is gonna be exceptions.

well backstabbing should not and if someone is sneaking then definately not, so there is a huge out, if they are invisible, obviously not, if their weapon is longer and they are attacking and it is not your turn anyway- again no, if they are retreating ( or advancing towards the rear as we were trained to refer to it) then again no or just not automatically. If someone is Battering ramming through a strike zone, also no. if they are not aware, blind or facing the wrong way then no again, downed, bleeding, crippled, slowed, or stunned -no.

I am also sort of thinking to be able to do it, even though it is not your turn you need to have at least an action point saved or you have not used yet for the turn, otherwise you were so pre-occupied and busy you couldnt do it anyway.

Yes this is D:OS but Temple of Elemental Evil really had Attack of oppurtunity done right.

I am quite surprised that Temple of elemental evil impress you so much. It was not very popular game, but great I admit. Reason why the attack of opportunity feels correct, as you say, is the AD&D ruleset. :-]
Well, the idea of proper AoO is motivated by Advanced Dungeons & dragons v3.5. (used in Temple of ee btw) It is about Attack of opportunity is provoked by any action which is not suited for hand to hand combat.
That means>
Any attack touch spell doesnt.
Any attack touch skill doesn't. (Rogue's cc)
Any special attack skill doesn't. (Whirwind, cripple, ...)

Any spell does (touch exceptions see above) caster need focus, proper breath, moving hands in proper and precise manner.(Watch the beautiful Rain cast animation.) That means he cant make even simple defensive step to avoid obvious hit.
Any non combat skill does - like threat poison, thread wounds, helping hand. Reason same as for spells.
Any spell like ability like Rapture does. Reason same as for spells.
Any potion use does. Just imagine you have a flask in a bag, so you put it down, put your head to the bag find the proper flask between 30 others. then open the cover, then look up the sky to bottom it up. Well, attack of opportunity for this is quite cheap penalty don't you think ?
Battle radius skills Like Encourage, Inspire are questionable, but couldn't provoke. I think.

I don't think that they'll try and add in changes to this (or changes to bow/crossbow balance) in Original Sin on top of the balance/difficulty megapatch they're doing. However, this discussion could possibly be useful for Larian's future RPG's. So I'll continue it anyway.


Just because it was done a certain way in D&D means it should be done the same way in D:OS. They are different systems.

I don't think potion use should provoke AoO for balance reasons. If you are wounded with an enemy close to you, but you can't move away, you can't cast any attack spells, you can't cast a healing spell and you can't even drink a potion, what exactly CAN you do to defend yourself?

(Most mages probably have few touch spells, since few spells like that exist, plus they usually prefer to attack from range anyway.)

Use defensive skills. Use a retreat skill (Expedious retreat, Phoenix dive) You can risk it and drink Huge heal potion, in case you survive hit then you end up with more health then on the begining. You can cc your oponent then heal yourself. You can wait to help from other party members. You can use leach talent, ... there sooo much options. But in the first a person who rely the skill which provokes AoO should avoid such situations.
In fact limiting some actions are sometimes risky brings next level of strategy. It also makes almighty mages somehow fragile. :-]So the mages tend to cover behind muscle friendly back. Well the AI should be prepared so I agree that proper AoO we see at the best in the new larians project. However crossbow changes could be done soon.

What is expeditious retreat? What mage has phoenix dive? In fact, by default, mages don't get any "move the caster to this specific place" spells (Lightning Strike is the closest, but it puts you behind a random enemy.). I didn't think about getting Expert Marksman on my first playthrough just for the retreat spell.

I'm not saying that there are NO options, but I would not say that they have "sooo much" options. I'm not saying you're wrong - but there are balance issues that will require more careful thought and testing than merely copying the rules from a different system and calling it a day.

Tactical retreat. - Jump away that think.

Yes the idea probably stems from D&D 2.5 but that isnt the only PnP that does it, and this isnt D&D obviously and D&D does not do everything correctly or best in class as far as games go anyway. So it needs to be adapted to D:OS

Touch spells, I dont agree- I think that should be a cause....here is why... are they an attack-yes! are they a spell- yes! is your arm shorter than the sword, axe, spear, you are trying to reach past to touch the wielder of said weapon- yes! but is the spellcaster a slick fast really nimble and agile shaolin monk?...maybe!

I think many things would provoke an AoO but I think that there are some things that would counteract it as well, as I said in my last post. Most ( or any/all) unfavorable statuses, invisibility, sneak, backstab/outside perception cone, no remaining action points,

At least we dont have to worry about pikes, and setting a polearm vs a charge!

I do not have much confidence in it being changed on this go-round, but for the future it is worth it to disect it now.

Or keep it the way it is and increase the chance of it happening when there is a chance, since it must be a percentage chance probablility maybe that is just too low and that is why I think it is broken, Stabbey you got any comment on the nuts and bolts of how it works, as is?

Okay so we sorta migrated this into "Talents that need..." thread.

Where my question on how AoO percentages work got answered.

Computer chance of Attack of Opportunity 100%

Player chance of Attack of Opportunity XX% ....( seems like about 25% at best)

Bottom line result- is players with Opportunist Talent get hosed, its unfair nearly useless and needs to be fixed.

139) Story: Source Hunters take the word of an admitted liar as literal truth.

This is kind-of a continuation of complaint #16 - "Source Hunters are written as stupid".

I am speaking specifically here about Zombie Jake. The Source Hunters finally find Jake. If they talked to all the witnesses in the tavern, the player might have noticed that Jake's story is inconsistent with them. The Source Hunters don't notice that. That is okay, because there isn't really a way to put that together without an obvious dialogue option.

However, later on, after hearing Councilor Jake's story about who killed him, you encounter him again under the old church. It is revealed that he is a Sourcerer, and he was in league with Evelyn. And yet, not once, not even ONCE do the Source Hunters ever doubt that maybe, just MAYBE, his tale about who killed him was a bunch of hokum. Nonsense. Garbage. Lies.

The source hunters seem to ignore all the testimony of people who say that the White Witch seems like a good person. They seem to ignore the fact that the Immaculates are after her. They know the Immaculates are suspicious - even if they miss Arhu in Silverglen, they at least meet a fleeing Immaculate who says "holy crap we're bad guys, I'm outa here".

Every time they talk to an ally of the White Witch, they seem to single-mindedly say "The White Witch is clearly evil and a murdereress and should be brought to justice." Seriously? The case against Esmeralda was stronger than the case against the White Witch! I think some skepticism is in order here!

Lawful stupid alingment apparently.

Going through this list too... Some things are easy fixes. Others will be proposed. And others will be taken to the next game as good ideas