Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by Dr Koin
The only thing that really differentiates men and women is physiology, everything else is cultural and, as such, purely subjective and artificial.

You say that like physiology (including brain chemistry) has no influence on behaviour or development. Male monkeys prefer trucks and female monkeys dolls, without any societal pressure to conform with traditional stereotypes. Human girls exposed to higher levels of testosterone or androgen during prenatal development will often exhibit more 'masculine' toy preference and play behaviour, even if their parents encourage 'feminine' toys and behaviour.

There are lots of things for which gender is irrelevant, and technology is expanding that, but there are always going to be differences in what men and women feel attracted to (in terms of averages or tendencies of the groups).


I may have not be clear enough, but my point is that anyone can like whatever he wants. But so far, the human race has been enclined to severely control what each gender should like and punish with varying degree of severity differences in what was ( is! ) perceived as an anomaly. Hence claims of what had me react in the first place, that boy and girl activities should be seggregated to the proper gender because they don't - can't - like the same things in the first place.
Brain chemistry is indeed an actor in what people like or not, but we can't deny the "stupidity" of the human race when it comes to forging children in what they view as a the "proper way to be". It is not wrong for a girl to like trucks. Maybe she does because her father is a truck driver, which would be cultural. Maybe she does because she is naturally enclined to liking trucks, which would be natural ( and hard to tell ). And maybe she is mocked/scolded/punished for liking trucks, which would be cultural.

A boy may like what is typically seen as a "girl" thing, and vice versa. Vometia pointed out the matter of transsexuals which are a clear indication that genders are a very subjective matter, since they are not always as clear and pre-determined as we think. A man feeling he is a woman may really be a woman, the only difference being the obvious physiological issue - and technology again can help break that boundary.

Originally Posted by Hassat Hunter
And here I was thinking I was born with autism, but apparently that was just something cultural that I was trained... thanks for the insight. I wonder who "trained" me to have chronical depression as well. And here I take medication to try and influence my brain. Silly silly me...

There have been plenty of documented cases where someone young has been tried in every possible way to be "cultured" (as you call it) to be the other gender. Even a story about a young boy who something went wrong after birth, his manhood got lost, and they tried to make him a female, after all, it was all "how you raise them"... turns out, nope, despite being raised as a girl, getting female hormones and all that, he definitely was out of place amongst the other girls.

So I suppose that you can say it's just physical, but like Raze said, that physical change is also a different brain-setup, and as we all should know, your brains are pretty important for how you act, what you like and what you do.

So unless you also want to theorise brains are something subjective and cultural...


Come one, comparing autism to gender is quite wrong. Either you mean being of either gender is a mental disorder, or your saying autism is as okay as being a male or a female. Autism "fortunately"/"sadly" doesn't care about gender. I do not know whether you indeed have autism or not, but I can't let anyone think I am insulting people who are suffering of this, and their families.
You also somehow insult my arguments about the cultural environement by refering to as a "training", but you're actually somehow right : there ARE people harshly training their boys to be boys/girls to be girls and hatefuly segregating the genders, viewing any type of deviance as weaknesses.

The example of the boy is interesting though : it reflects that part of the society that desperatly clings to stereotypes. I guess it must be difficult to raise a child in this situation, but my best bet is try and go neutral until she starts to express what she likes best, embrace it, and go this way. If the girl likes boy things, let her like boy things. If she is mocked and feels out of place at school, it's because people still don't accept that girl can like boy things. Just like people are ready to blame LGBT people of everything bad, because they can't accept differences, because, again, of an upbriging that created a cultural hate of LGBT. Let's not pretend the hate of homosexual doesn't exist or that it is a natural state of the mind : it's a cultural legacy coming from, often but not only, religious beliefs.

So anyway that's why in the end I consider gender interests to be cultural rather than physiological : because the human race has been trying to mold his offsprings in a way that has always been considered the right way, even when it clearly wasn't, leading to stereotypes which are purely cultural. Obviously, liking something is the result of both natural ( brain chemistry ) and cultural ( upbringing, environment, society ) factors. It's just that we've been fighting the natural part for almost as long as man is man.


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